A_Wanderer
ONE love, blood, life
But it isn't Canada.
A_Wanderer said:^A legitimate need for certain groups with their own ends; but given but if it was ever used to force private organisations to have quotas or break up clubs that discriminate by sex it would be very wrong.
anitram said:I mean, to suggest that I should be grateful I have a glass ceiling rather than being dead - you have to ask yourself who thinks this way?
A_Wanderer said:No, but that is really an issue of proximity. I just think that those policies while beneficial against the most intransigent sections of society are government overstepping it's bounds.
Better than the idea that your right to control your property is void when the way that you want to use it clashes with societies expectations.martha said:
Yes, yes, we know that private property trumps any rights anybody has. No matter what their gender or skin color.
Or political associations.
To support the right to do the wrong thing is not an endorsement of it; much different than say actively supporting positive discrimination.martha said:
We've been around on this before, and I'll say when you get out a little bit and really see what's going on, you'll alter your opinions a bit. Especially when you run up against the kind of discrimination in reality you support in theory.
A_Wanderer said:That sucks and as a hypothetical example it is far less vicious and pernacious than the very real obstacles and hatred behind such discrimination in the real world but the principle remains the same.
A_Wanderer said:but you are claiming that government force can be a force for good in society.
Good open ended justification; the ability to live their lives; now in the case of segregation this is a persuasive argument that deserves consideration but at the stage of employment opportunity and club membership it should be questioned; not being able to get a specific job from a specific employer or being overlooked for promotion may not hold the same weight to justify action.martha said:
Yes, I am. Ask any black American who can now live, shop, worship, and work anywhere she wants to.
Babble on all you want about how "the government" shouldn't control these things, but "the government" is ultimately us, acting to step in when the individual has allowed his hatred for those different from him to interfere with those different ones' ability to live their lives.
A_Wanderer said:not being able to get a specific job from a specific employer or being overlooked for promotion may not hold the same weight to justify action.
A_Wanderer said:Were not talking about broad and institutionalised discrimination crippling any chance at living a life; women in the USA in 2008 are not living in the same condition as negroes in the 1950's and that means that such action to ameliorate it may be unjustified.
A_Wanderer said:not being able to get a specific job from a specific employer or being overlooked for promotion may not hold the same weight to justify action.
No, my argument is not that you have it better than X therefore we should do nothing. It is that in the case of X it was decided that action had to be taken but because the situation for this isn't as severe then that course of action may not be justified. Not to say that I wouldn't supportanitram said:
Thankfully the courts interpret liberty far more broadly than you do.
All of your arguments have the same underlying theme as INDY's, that is, "come on now, you don't have it THAT bad, it could be much worse, so let's maintain the status quo."
No can do.
A_Wanderer said:No, my argument is not that you have it better than X therefore we should do nothing. It is that in the case of X it was decided that action had to be taken but because the situation for this isn't as severe then that course of action may not be justified.
A_Wanderer said:You can all keep your civil society, I would much prefer some sort of dystopian anarcho-capitalism.
anitram said:
That's because you've never lived in one. It's nothing but an academic argument for you. And academic arguments mean squat to living, breathing people.