Zootlesque said:
Wow. I would not have expected that to come from you! After all, you seem to defend the 00s quite a bit!
ozeeko said:
yea. i'm sick of playing nice. the last album blows chunks. sorry.
Zootlesque said:Nisse, I feel just about the same way as you do!
They could have definitely left some of the alternate versions as they are and included them on the album instead of reworking the shit out of them!
U2Man said:
But it's ironical that they hired a Beatles producer with the purpose of making catchy music like the Beatles (as you said) and then end up firing him, because it didn't get catchy enough!
Zootlesque said:
Well... no but, seems like they now have the widest audience that they've ever had in their career! I could be wrong but.. their music now attracts everyone from old fans to pre-teens! And to achieve that, I suppose you have to lose some complexity from your work!
Layton said:
Those alternates were leading to a darker and more liberal place that U2 weren't ready for and didn't feel was genuine.
Zootlesque said:I just think that Bono's writing style is too direct and in your face, post 2000. There's nothing left to the imagination.
Zootlesque said:All Because Of You (alternate) Vs. All Because Of You
Next to it
I was so close to it
I had the universe decoded
Then the atom split
[/B]
BonoVoxSupastar said:
More liberal? WTF does that even mean?
Is this your own little theory or do you have some type of source?
AtomicBono said:...so what does everyone think of the lyrics to U2's future hit Stop (The Poverty)?
Layton said:
Think about all the 'likes' he used to use (like a burning spear, like a fish on a bicycle, etc.). He started to sound ridiculous doing that all the time and that was the extent of his 'poetic' skills. Bono finally realized to just be himself and get comfortable in his own skin. It's interesting that some of you guys seem to like the poser stuff, better. Says alot, I think---lol.
Layton said:
Also, I'd consider the stated lyrical theme of "Native Son" to be liberal-minded. Freeing an unjustly imprisoned Peltier would definately be considered a liberal point-of-view.
Zootlesque said:Why is using similies to express thoughts = poser stuff??? And great, now you're judging 'us guys'?
U2Man said:Maybe you're right. After all, the boys Bono sings about in Vertigo cannot dance. I guess that makes them stiff and conservative.
Zootlesque said:This is by no means an HTDAAB bashing thread, just an in-depth (mostly) lyrical analysis!
This is how I see it. After bouncing back from the darkest depths of Wake Up Dead Man with the brilliant Beautiful Day and an overall optimistic and 'sunny' (but often too simplistic) album, U2 had a choice!
1. They could either get back to writing lyrically complex songs, creating great soundscapes and imagery like they did in the past... OR...
2. They could continue trying to reach the widest audience possible by creating beautiful melodies with strong sing-along verses and choruses, albeit sacrificing lyrical complexity!
Option 2 was the ticket to not just staying as the biggest band in the world but leaving no doubt in anybody's mind that they were indeed on par with the Beatles! I'm still not entirely sure which option I prefer personally. After all, I do enjoy that 'high' of being in the midst of not just the whole stadium but the whole world singing along to my favorite band. But then again, I think Option 1 could have really showcased some of Bono's best songwriting, on par with the classics!
I'm including my own descriptions of certain songs to further make my point clear...
OPTION 1 Vs. OPTION 2
Native Son Vs. Vertigo
I think Native Son's lyrics are far superior to most of Vertigo which is good fun but doesn't mean much, to me at least!
On the run... officer put down the gun
Native son... I never wanted to own one
Native son... both of us want to be someone
It's so hard... is it so hard for a native son to be freeeeeeeeeeeee?
That last line in the chorus flows so beautifully, it's awesome! Not to mention, the breathtaking 'Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee...' bridge!
Then again, I prefer the more pronounced riff in Vertigo and the instrumental bridge 'without' the claps! And the line 'the girl with crimson nails has Jesus round her neck' sounds cool to sing along to! A serious rock song or a cool sounding, fun EBTTRT-ish number? I don't know.
All Because Of You (alternate) Vs. All Because Of You
Next to it
I was so close to it
I had the universe decoded
Then the atom split
What a great opening verse!!! I like how it starts (musically) without the unnecessarily ear-piercing sound from the album version. I also like how Bono sings all the lines in the chorus the same way instead of going 'Aaaahll because of you' for the second line. The excellent bridge can of course be found on the album as well!
Tough / Sometimes (alt)(?) Vs. Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
I prefer this verse...
When I was a young boy, in the suburb of cedarwood
I wanted to be great
'Cause good would not be good enough
Now that I'm older
I don't see things any clearer
Nearer now, but still a long way off
...to the overly simple...
We fight all the time
You and I... that's alright
We're the same soul
How many times will Bono use the words 'soul' and 'kneel'? I really like the meloncholy strings in this version. I think it suits the subject matter much better than the happy bounce of the opening notes on the album version.
That said, I prefer the album version for how it really builds up towards the end... the SING verse sounds so much stronger and better on the album! Yeah, this one's a toss up!
I don't want to go on comparing the 'what might have been' songs with the 'what we got eventually' ones, but you get the drift! I guess there's good and bad in both versions. The good thing is... since most of us own all these rare songs and outtakes anyway, we can listen to whatever version we like depending on our mood.
But I still feel... nobody can deny the fact that with ATYCLB and HTDAAB, U2 abandoned lyrical complexity and art to more upbeat sing-along material that has a tremendous potential to reach the widest audience! If I had to over-simplify it... it's almost like a choice between great lyrics and great music And as it may be evident from my rambling post, I'm still unsure as to which option I prefer! How about you guys?
Zootlesque said:So, to follow up my original post and try to bring it to a conclusion...
I guess, in this fast-paced, channel-changing, download crazy, I-pod sporting, short attention span world that we live in, where kids apparently latch on to a catchy riff and are content with singing along or dancing to it (judging by the popularity of hip-hop lately)... U2 had to do what they did and abandon artsy lyrical complexity and experimental soundscapes in order to reach not just old fans but a whole world of new teenage fans! Either that... or they could have remained the serious rock band that they were pre-2000... kinda like Pearl Jam, REM or Radiohead still are right now... and never have reached the dizzy heights of super stardom like The Beatles! Sometimes I wish I could go back about 10 years in time when the world of music wasn't this competitive!
STING2 said:These two albums have some of the best work U2 have done in their career!
Zootlesque said:
Well... no but, seems like they now have the widest audience that they've ever had in their career! I could be wrong but.. their music now attracts everyone from old fans to pre-teens! And to achieve that, I suppose you have to lose some complexity from your work!
Zootlesque said:
See... this is where it becomes your opinion! But I disagree with that statement.
STING2 said:
And what would you call your theory in this thread?
Earnie Shavers said:I might, of course, be reading your point wrong, but in some ways I think Joshua Tree and Achtung reached out to a wider audience than HTDAAB - in a way. Plenty of arguments in here have focused on an album like Zooropa, or if you count it, Passengers, as being U2 at one end of their extreme - the least commercial, easily accessible etc etc. Albums like ATYCLB & HTDAAB are at the other end, the most commercial, 'pop', easily accessible etc etc. I think Achtung and Joshua Tree rank the highest because they are also the most in the middle. Both have the easy to accept hits, both have the more involved interesting music as well. HTDAAB at it's extreme will always sell truckloads more than Zooropa at it's extreme (and I think Zooropa was definitely given a mammoth sales boost by coming hot on the heals of Achtung/ZooTV - 2 years later it would have sold far far less) because HTDAAB's extreme is the mass market, Zooropa's is the niche.
Achtung = wider audience spread. In 1992 you would easily find Achtung Baby sitting on the shelf equally next to Bon Jovi and/or The Stone Roses in bedrooms around the world.
HTDAAB = larger core audience. In 2005 you were far far more likely to find HTDAAB sitting on the shelf next to Maroon 5 than The White Stripes.
As for radio play, different time and place. Achtungs songs wouldn't get that airplay now. HTDAAB's don't because Bono isn't 18 and hot, but they are far more likely than Achtungs just based on musical positioning alone.