pub crawler
New Yorker
There will be no further discussion of this issue.
pub crawler said:There will be no further discussion of this issue.
Aren't you forgetting 'Running To Stand Still'? Possibly the best song on the album.ishkash said:could be, but it gets heavily challenged by One Tree Hill, Where The Streets Have No Name, With Or Without You, I Still Haven't Found...
Michael Griffiths said:
Aren't you forgetting 'Running To Stand Still'? Possibly the best song on the album.
Please elaborate. I don't follow. By "over there," are you talking about the part of Dublin that Bono wrote the song about? In which case, I assume you are being sarcastic. However, I do not want to make any assumptions, as I don't know what you are alluding to. Fill me in!ishkash said:
Yes, forget best describes what happened over there.
While that may be true, I'm still not convinced. The vocals on 'I Still Haven't Found' also showcase Bono at the top of his register, while also holding the notes with full open voice. It's like he's shouting out of a window in a tower, for the whole country to hear him. It's a vocal that just kind of grabs you, no matter where you are and how you are listening - whether it be on the radio, on your discman, or at home on the stereo.FallingStar said:Red Hill Mining Town is the the best vocally song on JT.
But RHMT was never performed live because Bono couldn't get his voice sound like in the 'I'm hanging on...' part on stage. Whereas I'm Still Haven't Found could be played live.Michael Griffiths said:
While that may be true, I'm still not convinced. The vocals on 'I Still Haven't Found' also showcase Bono at the top of his register, while also holding the notes with full open voice. It's like he's shouting out of a window in a tower, for the whole country to hear him. It's a vocal that just kind of grabs you, no matter where you are and how you are listening - whether it be on the radio, on your discman, or at home on the stereo.
Of course, the vocals on 'With or Without You' are stunning as well. That's one of the only songs that I feel Bono truly out-did himself ('Angel of Harlem' being another). The way he goes from lower to mid, to high range is amazing. It's like his voice dances in those songs.
While it is true that they couldn't play RHMT live because of the high notes (as they were on the album), I believe they never really altered the song enough to do so. If you notice, 'I Still Haven't Found' has been changed considerably from the studio version - and is performed at a much lower key. I don' think Bono has ever been able to perform it live as he did on The Joshua Tree - and that's even during The Joshua Tree era. U2 have done this with a lot of songs, actually. Remember how no one thought he could hit the notes in 'Kite' live? Well, he didn't have to, because they just dropped the key. 'Pride' is another obvious one.FallingStar said:
But RHMT was never performed live because Bono couldn't get his voice sound like in the 'I'm hanging on...' part on stage. Whereas I'm Still Haven't Found could be played live.
But the album version of RHMT is nevertheless one of the best - if not THE - best vocal song on JT - you admitted it.Michael Griffiths said:
While it is true that they couldn't play RHMT live because of the high notes (as they were on the album), I believe they never really altered the song enough to do so. If you notice, 'I Still Haven't Found' has been changed considerably from the studio version - and is performed at a much lower key. I don' think Bono has ever been able to perform it live as he did on The Joshua Tree - and that's even during The Joshua Tree era. U2 have done this with a lot of songs, actually. Remember how no one thought he could hit the notes in 'Kite' live? Well, he didn't have to, because they just dropped the key. 'Pride' is another obvious one.
Michael Griffiths said:
Aren't you forgetting 'Running To Stand Still'? Possibly the best song on the album.
You know - one thing that never ceases to amaze me: that it is even possible to have an album with a song such as 'With or Without You' on it, and still have no definitive best song. How is that possible? Well, it's rather simple. Include a whole album full of other-wordly songs, and let God decide. At least that seemed to be U2's philosophy on The Joshua Tree.
People say Achtung Baby is their best album, but the only song that even comes close to the other-worldly component found on JT is 'One'. Even if you polled only the people who list AB as a favourite, *most* of them would say 'One' is the clear-cut best song on that album. If you polled all U2 fans as to which songs on Achtung Baby are other-worldly classics, again 'One' would be the definitive and mostly likely *only* pick. On JT, however, you would get several responses: 'Streets'; 'Still Haven't Found'; 'With or Without You' being the most common picks. It's kind of scary that there are other songs on the album that are just as good. That's one of the major differences between Achtung Baby and The Joshua Tree. Both masterpieces, but one left the Earth without actually leaving it at all, while the other dove right in, burrowing itself inside the arteries of the human heart. Just my opinion, though.
pop_mofo said:
You know Michael, I agree with you to a point. However, I think that what your post neglects to point out is that just because every song is great doesn't mean the album is great. I know that sounds odd, but if you think about it it can make a bit of sense. I think Joshua Tree is a great collection of songs, however I think that Achtung baby is the better album. I just think that AB is one great continuous piece. Sometimes, I think it's a concept album; it all fits together so well. While the Joshua tree album has some of the bands best songs, I don't think it has the same ebb and flow that AB has. This is of course purely opionated. Feel free to discuss.
By the way, just to stay on topic, I think Red Hill mining Town is a close second on JT, right behind One Tree Hill. End of story
Peace.
wertsie said:
I get what you're saying here, definitely. IMHO, AB is much more cohesive as an album. The songs all seem to share a common thread...With JT, there are some songs (specifically RHMT and TTYW) that stick out like sore thumbs to me...Not that they're not great songs...it just seems like they really don't fit with the rest.
Michael Griffiths said:
Please elaborate. I don't follow. By "over there," are you talking about the part of Dublin that Bono wrote the song about? In which case, I assume you are being sarcastic. However, I do not want to make any assumptions, as I don't know what you are alluding to. Fill me in!
Radiohead?ishkash said:The best part is there is only one band out there who is as talented as them as a band (no its not Coldplay), so not much challenge out there.
hee hee hee!!! I knew you would like that!The Wanderer said:esoteric?? metaphysical???
christ!! this is rock music for fucks sake! let them sing about it 400 years from now and maybe they'll have it all sorted out
With all due respect, Matthew, I must disagree. The Joshua Tree is the sound of something totally different than anything else, let alone anything adult contemporary. When The Joshua Tree came out, it was one of the most innovative albums of all time. No one had ever heard of the infinite guitar, and Edge was the first to use it in popular music. That's why WOWY sounded like nothing else out there when it came out, and also why critics sincerely thought there were no hit-single-material songs on the album. It's an album that gave us a totally different perspective on the popular music scene. Nothing on that album sounds commercial even to this day. That is why it sounds timeless.Matthew_Page2000 said:People talk about 80's and 90's U2 being separate entities and it usually boils down to JT vs AB. I think it's more pop/soft rock U2 vs rock/alternative U2.
JT is a more "adult contemporary" record whereas AB is the U2 album the rock fans dig more. U2 fans who prefer JT tend to like Coldplay, Travis, REM, Jewel etc, etc and also express affection for ATYCLB and UF. U2 fans who prefer AB tend to express admiration for bands like the Who, Pearl Jam, Radiohead etc, etc and also express affection for War and Pop.
Just a thought.
MAP
Michael Griffiths said:
With all due respect, Matthew, I must disagree. The Joshua Tree is the sound of something totally different than anything else, let alone anything adult contemporary. When The Joshua Tree came out, it was one of the most innovative albums of all time. No one had ever heard of the infinite guitar, and Edge was the first to use it in popular music. That's why WOWY sounded like nothing else out there when it came out, and also why critics sincerely thought there were no hit-single-material songs on the album. It's an album that gave us a totally different perspective on the popular music scene. Nothing on that album sounds commercial even to this day. That is why it sounds timeless.
As for your generalization on which fans like which bands, I also disagree. I happen to think JT is the best album of all time, but I also love Radiohead, love Bjork, love The Pixies, and enjoy Smashing Pumpkins and The Verve, as well as Pearl Jam (gasp!), and oh - you'll really like this - I adore the new Coldplay album! I also think Achtung Baby is the 2nd best U2 album of all time, and I also really like Pop. War is also a personal fav. I think Zooropa is one of the most brilliant things the band have ever done. Where does all of that leave me?
I really don't know where this odd conception that JT is "mainstream, adult contemporary" came from. I'm guessing it's the result of it exploding the way it did - but only because it exploded is it mainstream. Going into it, it sounded way too organic to destroy the charts the way it did. There is a reason why Bono said, back in 1987, that "the thought of the world waiting for the JT is ridiculous. It sounds as though it will sell 3 copies."
The fact that it did so well only serves to explain its ability to transcend the world in which we live. For that's the conundrum of The Joshua Tree.