Random Music Talk CXXI: Not this time, Crappy

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Just sitting here at work listening to Wildflowers and asking myself, wtf over and over again.





not sure why I went and picked this of all albums.
 
Credit given.

Between Torres and EMA we've got one hell of a badass disenchanted feminism duo going on this last month.
 
that article sounds nonsense to me because he's stated that he cares about social justice. he just says that those ridiculous SJW type is wrong/regressive.
 
Mack_Again said:
that article sounds nonsense to me because he's stated that he cares about social justice. he just says that those ridiculous SJW type is wrong/regressive.
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That's kind of the equivalent of saying "I can't be racist because I have a black friend."
 
No, it's not like that at all really. It's more like we're all trying to discern the kernel of truth within the joke. He likes to clown political correctness and it's led him to inadvertently give a platform to some pretty awful people in order to push a joke. Of course he's also a Bernie supporter that loathes Trump and continually bashes his ideology (such as it is) whenever his extremely sincere thinkpiece videos get political.

His mistake was thinking that his main channel's audience would tolerate the humor and resulting audience that his second persona would court. Obviously you can't be that kind of forced edgy for that long in his industry and get away with it. And I'm sure he does believe some of the shit he jokes about. But he also actively criticizes and mocks the brand of red pill thinking that the alt right indulge in (this is the crux of the humor in his Best Rapper Alive videos), so it's a mess.

There's a fine line between informed but racially insensitive for the sake of humor and being a racist bigot all the time and he seems to be pushing that line a little too frequently. I suppose I have more of an appreciation for the distance that his literal second (orange) hat allows him, whereas this Fader article (which, having read much of it now, reads as histrionic and heavily editorialized) focuses almost solely on a character he's quite obviously playing. It's almost like attacking Stephen Colbert for his humor, except obviously Fantano is more offensive and irresponsible about the way he represents his brand.
 
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That reads like a bit of apologia, I'm sorry (although you're much more well-rounded on it than Mack). You can't treat his sincere thinkpiece videos as cancelling out these other videos, or making it okay that he's made these other videos. You absolutely cannot dismiss his videos on this other channel as some character and say 'oh he's actually a great bloke, check out this this and this video'.

I do not buy for one second this idea that he actively criticises alt-right thinking, when there's MULTIPLE videos of him actively participating in extraordinarily offensive videos. You can't do both and be sincere. That's complete and total bullshit.

I have admired quite a few of his videos, but not any more. An impassioned video 'why I don't use the n-word' then several videos where he displays the n-word in the background of videos. Impassioned videos criticising the alt-right and then appearing in videos by the fucking amazing atheist mocking women for wanting a safe space and saying that all crazy SJWs drink bleach.

"It's satire" doesn't fucking pass. Really looking forward to seeing what he has to say for himself.

[tweet]915402398679621632[/tweet]
 
Honestly, I do feel like satire has been devalued in a society that is prone to hyperbole and virtue signaling. I'm not saying Fantano is a prime example of alt right/red pill critique, certainly not. He's made too many friends with men that are ultimately his enemies, assuming he holds to the political ideology he claims. But I'm from an era when South Park, the Colbert Report and Tina Fey's SNL were relevant, when illustrating the sickness in order to eradicate it was an acceptable method of social justice, and I can understand why somebody in their 30s would don a mask to make a statement. "He or she offended me, I don't care if it's satire" is a reaction I see far too often on the internet for every instance to be productive.

That said, I agree, he's wading in the muck too often to leave his motivations and beliefs unquestioned. If he values his brand, he needs to cut these connections and start acting on his true beliefs, whatever they may be. On the other hand, people labeling him a racist based on some comedy videos need to consider the value of that label and reconsider using it so loosely. He's a deeply flawed guy with a leftist background that's made a lot of money and friends and is drowning in contradictions that he can't account for. I really don't think he's a racist or a misogynist, but I think he's selectively tone deaf when he wants to make a joke/commentary.

One other point of note: a comment that got under my skin was his assertion that a YouTube channel isn't worth working on if it isn't attracting advertisers. He even questioned a tweet on this matter, claiming that no one would willingly make something creative for free. All of this while having a Patreon that covered the time and effort required to update it, regardless of the advertising revenue. That attitude sums up everything wrong with the current state of YouTube and I lost a lot of respect for him as a content creator based on those comments.
 
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We need a moratorium on the phrase “virtue signalling”, ugh, what wank. (Not aimed at you specifically)

I agree - but the satire has to be done well. It has to punch up. That’s why the first so of S09 of Curb was so good. They took the piss out of woke culture in a way that was more focused on how Larry David is an arsehole and the ridiculousness of the situation, not how well-meaning woke people are idiots.

Fantano’s videos punch down. That’s the difference. Yes, it’s satire, but it’s shit satire and he deserves to be called out for it.

Lastly, having a black man in a noose in one of your videos is pretty racist. I don’t think he’s racist... but that really doesn’t look good :|
 
Yeah, "virtue signaling" gets used by a lot of people that I don't care for. But I didn't create it, I just use the vernacular when it applies. One of the worst kinds of social critique is someone presenting an idea or statement as morally corrupt rather than potentially harmful or emblematic of a larger social issue. Calling people a racist from a soapbox fixes nothing. You're not doing that, but I keep seeing it and it's sending potentially useful discussions off the rails every time.

Your point that satire needs to punch upwards is a cogent one and that's a major failing for Fantano. Atlanta's (and the film Get Out's) satire has gained so much praise in part because it comes from the position of the underdog and is aimed towards larger, often enigmatic social structures that people know are powerful but difficult to put on screen. 30 Rock, when it was on, punched sideways, critiquing white privilege and faux-sincerity from a position of privilege. Fantano, well, uses meme culture to speak about memes, the people who love memes and the people who want to silence other people. It's not at the same level of sophistication.
 
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LemonMelon said:
Your point that satire needs to punch upwards is a cogent one and that's a major failing for Fantano. Atlanta's (and the film Get Out's) satire has gained so much praise in part because it comes from the position of the underdog and is aimed towards larger, often enigmatic social structures that people know are powerful but difficult to put on screen. 30 Rock, when it was on, punched sideways, critiquing white privilege and faux-sincerity from a position of privilege. Fantano, well, uses meme culture to speak about memes, the people who love memes and the people who want to silence other people. It's not at the same level of sophistication.
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:up::up:

Hence why I think he deserves to be called out: he's seen that a way of making more money outside of his Needle Drop channel was to have a second one for 4channers. (And he's already suggested on Twitter that he's not concerned with the content; only that it's not making him enough money.) It's not sophisticated, it's not funny, it directly contradicts all the values that he apparently says he stands for and it denigrates people who have a history of being denigrated.

And "it's a joke" isn't a good enough defence for that.
 
Here's that podcast with Sam Hyde. For a bloke who is sensitive regarding black culture... he spends the first five minutes just laughing at Hyde putting on a racist caricature Caribbean accent.

 
cobl04 said:
:up::up:

Hence why I think he deserves to be called out: he's seen that a way of making more money outside of his Needle Drop channel was to have a second one for 4channers. (And he's already suggested on Twitter that he's not concerned with the content; only that it's not making him enough money.) It's not sophisticated, it's not funny, it directly contradicts all the values that he apparently says he stands for and it denigrates people who have a history of being denigrated.

And "it's a joke" isn't a good enough defence for that.
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I think you should do Content Cops instead of IDubbz
 
cobl04 said:
Impassioned videos criticising the alt-right and then appearing in videos by the fucking amazing atheist mocking women for wanting a safe space and saying that all crazy SJWs drink bleach.

"It's satire" doesn't fucking pass. Really looking forward to seeing what he has to say for himself.
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This is it, basically. Anyone who bitches about "SJWs" or "political correctness" isn't a progressive, vegan or not. Satire is an incredibly thin veil to hide behind here.
 
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