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i think they hate modern U2, and they hate that they gave HTDAAB a 6.9 more than that

yeah, I agree... they hated ATYCLB (they gave it 5.0) and in this review he is naming it as "return to form"...

I think that they will look at NLOTH much more positively in retrospect. But it's a shame they gave it such a low grade. They are sometimes full of themselves, they are obnoxious sometimes, but they still have a big influence on public...

well, what can you do....
 
Why do people get so worked up about what Pitchfok says, positive or negative? :hmm:

I honestly can't see them being any major influence on public outside of the tiny segment of population who read about music on the internet. IMO internet makes the world seem smaller and makes some things seem way more important than they actually are.
 
That's ridiculous. U2's not some fucking secret handshake treehouse club. There are a whole bunch of different writers on Pitchfork, with different opinions. This one in particular didn't like the album. Get over it.

Well, what does the reviewer dislike? Bono it seems.

The review barely said anything about the album, just fancy-speak, talking about who U2 are and what they've done in the past, rather than concentrating on the album itself.

So many of the negative NLOTH reviews so far, have focused more on U2 as a band rather than the abum itself.
 
As far as I'm concerned, Pitchfork just jumped the shark. They've finally started to cannibalize. This reviewer is obviously a u2 lover...no one else could feel as betrayed or embarassed. But he has not allowed himself to become immersed in NLOTH. He has drowned himself in the media wave surrounding it. He quotes other magazine interviews instead of discussing the tunes themselves. He spends half the article giving us false history...Village People Costumes on the VERTIGO tour??? Use Google images--- cuncbag!!!Is this PerezHilton? 4.2 is obviously not a fair review, just as Animal collective receiving 9.6 is unfair. Pitchfork, today, would award Trout mask replica a 10.0..but give rubber soul and sticky fingers 8.0. Great job guys...Pitchfork just created its' "POP".
 
I think the Pitchfork reviewer is a U2 fan that was desperately disappointed with Atomic Bomb and really wanted a huge departure again now. Probably expected one, seeing as it was absolutely due after Bomb and U2 normally sense and move with that. When that's not what happened, they got the knives out for the one thing that Pitchfork is consistent on: Lack of Progression is a Sin.

As I said, not a big deal. The review, or the article, is 99% (excusing the Village People mistake) fair and correct. The reviewer is clearly not anti-U2 at all. This just wasn't enough for them. It's okay. Stop going over-the-fucking-top at every slightly bad review.

It is a joke that this got less than Bomb, but that's way more about Bomb's ridiculous score than anything else. They would absolutely be :doh: about that.
 
For all the "you are not progressive" talk Pitchfork dishes out, they gave ATYCLB 5.0 and Bomb 6.9. NLOTH (which barely got a paragraph or two in the entire "album review") which is considerably trying more at the new sounds in comparison, got 4.2.

:lmao:
 
Pitchfork is making its' ploy....anti-rolling stone. They're both wrong and they know it.....It's not a 4.2/10 album....It's not a *****/***** album......It's an album that can't really be judged for many years to come....an important chapter in a storied career.
 
When reviewing a "hit" or "big" album, Pitchfork is often one of the last to turn in a review. This means they've seen the rest of the critical reception. Makes you wonder what they would have given the album if U2 gave them a big exclusive look/interview in December.

It is a bit of a bummer though--this will have a significant impact on the Metacritic score and may single-handedly keep them from getting a "Universal Acclaim" marking (81 or above).
 
When reviewing a "hit" or "big" album, Pitchfork is often one of the last to turn in a review. This means they've seen the rest of the critical reception.

Yes, I also think they've waited for the other reviews to come out so that they can "counter" the major reviews (RS, Q, etc.). It's a shame, really.
 
Makes you wonder what they would have given the album if U2 gave them a big exclusive look/interview in December.

Hmm...they did go from ignoring Paul McCartney to giving his last two albums (Memory Almost Full and the latest Fireman release) solid reviews after he did some interviews for their website. In the case of U2, I think they would have received about a '6' just to semi-placate the band and potentially have them for further exclusives. Either way, it's still not a good review and no need to be nitpicky. Until they get a '7' from Pitchfork for a new album, it's the thumbs-down either way.
 
I was going to write a very scathing email of the Pitchfork reviewer, then softened after I read that the site gave Madonna's "Hard Candy" and Scarlett Johansson's new album both higher scores. What could possibly be lower than U2, you might ask?

The Best of Radiohead.

I think that shows the merits of that particular site's credibility. A laughable excuse for a website, and an insult to music in general. This smug arse probably can't play a guitar, let alone hold one right.

Critics are so funny. And pathetic.
 
no need to get personal just because low grade...
if the guy from pitchfork is pathetic because he is a music critic than the RS guy is also...and than we wouldn't even comment on them and have a 27-page thread of reviews here...

we all like when U2 gets a good review and vice verse...but let us be a little bit more objective and cool about it :)
 
I must admit, I love Pitchfork - always good for a laugh and usually very good for music news. No need to take everything they say or write too seriously, but give it the respect that it certainly does deserve rather than dismissing everything out of hand.

Personally, I'm not fully convinced by this album yet, but I do like the way it is polarising both the music press and the fans, which is certainly a healthy thing. If we could move away from instant reactions to a more considered analysis, it might give the band themselves more room to think and to make music more freely and, perhaps, not to let the 'U2 machine' get in the way.
 
no need to get personal just because low grade...
if the guy from pitchfork is pathetic because he is a music critic than the RS guy is also...and than we wouldn't even comment on them and have a 27-page thread of reviews here...

we all like when U2 gets a good review and vice verse...but let us be a little bit more objective and cool about it :)

Oh yeah, I hate all of them. Partly because I reviewed music for a while- imagine hanging out with these people or grabbing drinks to talk about what music you think is the most innovative these days?

It's like talking politics in DC. :D
 
I must admit, I love Pitchfork - always good for a laugh and usually very good for music news. No need to take everything they say or write too seriously, but give it the respect that it certainly does deserve rather than dismissing everything out of hand.

Personally, I'm not fully convinced by this album yet, but I do like the way it is polarising both the music press and the fans, which is certainly a healthy thing. If we could move away from instant reactions to a more considered analysis, it might give the band themselves more room to think and to make music more freely and, perhaps, not to let the 'U2 machine' get in the way.

My problem isn't negative reviews of U2 (that's immature). My problem is these "quasi-reviews" that don't or barely mention the album, focusing instead on mainstream interpretations of the band's songwriter, marketing strategy, or longevity. All need to be taken into account, I'm sure. But A-N-Y reviewer should judge the WORK, first and foremost, then the artist.

Does someone eat at a restaurant and dissect the meal based on the chef that made the food before declaring whether they like it? Do you go to an art museum and shield your eyes as you describe what you loathe about Picasso, based on his lifestyle and influences?

That is exactly what's happening with this record, and it's irresponsible criticism. I've read some of the reviews of these guys before, and they're better than this. Just because it's new doesn't mean it's better, and just because it's familiar doesn't mean it's played out.
 
My problem isn't negative reviews of U2 (that's immature). My problem is these "quasi-reviews" that don't or barely mention the album, focusing instead on mainstream interpretations of the band's songwriter, marketing strategy, or longevity. All need to be taken into account, I'm sure. But A-N-Y reviewer should judge the WORK, first and foremost, then the artist.

Does someone eat at a restaurant and dissect the meal based on the chef that made the food before declaring whether they like it? Do you go to an art museum and shield your eyes as you describe what you loathe about Picasso, based on his lifestyle and influences?

That is exactly what's happening with this record, and it's irresponsible criticism. I've read some of the reviews of these guys before, and they're better than this. Just because it's new doesn't mean it's better, and just because it's familiar doesn't mean it's played out.
Yeah, you pretty much nailed it. :up:
 
Personally, I'm not fully convinced by this album yet, but I do like the way it is polarising both the music press and the fans, which is certainly a healthy thing. If we could move away from instant reactions to a more considered analysis, it might give the band themselves more room to think and to make music more freely and, perhaps, not to let the 'U2 machine' get in the way.

I see what you're saying, but the Pitchfork piece is not even a real "review". Why should the band have "more room to think" because of that pseudo-review, whan most other reviews were slightly to very positive? I think the guy disqualified himself by writing nonsenical stuff about the band instead of just focusing on the music, and by giving that ridiculously low rating. This is not "considered analysis" - I'm all for that! -, this is crap. Some reviewers make it sound as if someone in the band took their wife or something, too much personal agenda, they are disqualifying themselves as "critics".
 
My problem isn't negative reviews of U2 (that's immature). My problem is these "quasi-reviews" that don't or barely mention the album, focusing instead on mainstream interpretations of the band's songwriter, marketing strategy, or longevity. All need to be taken into account, I'm sure. But A-N-Y reviewer should judge the WORK, first and foremost, then the artist.

I agree completely. But there's something that Pitchfork hit on which is actually rather profound, and a good discussion, at least - is this album really a big risky attack? or is it defensive?

Because I do like some of the experimentation on the album - tracks like Fez and COL and UC are my favorites on the album. But they aren't really that divergent from standard U2 tricks. Even if Eno is trying to make them not sound like U2, he's not doing as good of a job with that as he did with Coldplay.

But, really, there's a run of three songs here (IGC GOYB and SUC) that, while decent songs, are definitely not steps forward, and borderline ruin the mood of the album. And though I adore Magnificent, MOS, Breathe, and WAS, they aren't really bold leaps forward. I think Pitchfork, as inane as the review sometimes is, makes a point there. This feels like another album on the defensive. A bit less on defense than HTDAAB, but still.

What do you think? makes me worried that whatever U2 did with POP's criticism was so powerful that they're never gonna try to really f*** anyone up again.
 
I see what you're saying, but the Pitchfork piece is not even a real "review". Why should the band have "more room to think" because of that pseudo-review, whan most other reviews were slightly to very positive? I think the guy disqualified himself by writing nonsenical stuff about the band instead of just focusing on the music, and by giving that ridiculously low rating. This is not "considered analysis" - I'm all for that! -, this is crap. Some reviewers make it sound as if someone in the band took their wife or something, too much personal agenda, they are disqualifying themselves as "critics".

So he disqualified himself by giving that ridiculously low rating. In other words,
because he disagreed with you and a bunch of other people about the album? Mind-blowing. I can understand your other point about most of the review having nothing to do with the album, but an opinion in sharp divergence from yours cannot be in and of itself grounds to invalidate it.

And 4.2 is NOT RIDICULOUSLY LOW. I don't think it deserves that low a rating, but in relation to the rest of U2' canon, excepting the last 2 albums, which is, for better or worse, how he reviewed it, I'm not sure it stands up that favorably either.
 
I agree completely. But there's something that Pitchfork hit on which is actually rather profound, and a good discussion, at least - is this album really a big risky attack? or is it defensive?

Because I do like some of the experimentation on the album - tracks like Fez and COL and UC are my favorites on the album. But they aren't really that divergent from standard U2 tricks. Even if Eno is trying to make them not sound like U2, he's not doing as good of a job with that as he did with Coldplay.

But, really, there's a run of three songs here (IGC GOYB and SUC) that, while decent songs, are definitely not steps forward, and borderline ruin the mood of the album. And though I adore Magnificent, MOS, Breathe, and WAS, they aren't really bold leaps forward. I think Pitchfork, as inane as the review sometimes is, makes a point there. This feels like another album on the defensive. A bit less on defense than HTDAAB, but still.

What do you think? makes me worried that whatever U2 did with POP's criticism was so powerful that they're never gonna try to really f*** anyone up again.

These are good points, but what is the "purpose" of a U2 album...or any album for that matter? I have been responding very strongly on an aesthetic and emotional level to NLOTH, and it seems like this is going to continue for quite some time (unlike with HTDAAB, which I still appreciate). The philosophizing and hyper-analysis of newness/innovation/experimentation/pushing boundaries is really just a sideshow in the end. Do you love AB because it was a big departure from JT or because it's a great fucking record? The best albums of all time aren't hyper-experimental or a complete inversion of a signature sound.
 
My problem isn't negative reviews of U2 (that's immature). My problem is these "quasi-reviews" that don't or barely mention the album, focusing instead on mainstream interpretations of the band's songwriter, marketing strategy, or longevity. All need to be taken into account, I'm sure. But A-N-Y reviewer should judge the WORK, first and foremost, then the artist.

Does someone eat at a restaurant and dissect the meal based on the chef that made the food before declaring whether they like it? Do you go to an art museum and shield your eyes as you describe what you loathe about Picasso, based on his lifestyle and influences?

That is exactly what's happening with this record, and it's irresponsible criticism. I've read some of the reviews of these guys before, and they're better than this. Just because it's new doesn't mean it's better, and just because it's familiar doesn't mean it's played out.


I see what you're saying, but the Pitchfork piece is not even a real "review". Why should the band have "more room to think" because of that pseudo-review, whan most other reviews were slightly to very positive? I think the guy disqualified himself by writing nonsenical stuff about the band instead of just focusing on the music, and by giving that ridiculously low rating. This is not "considered analysis" - I'm all for that! -, this is crap. Some reviewers make it sound as if someone in the band took their wife or something, too much personal agenda, they are disqualifying themselves as "critics".


I tend to agree with you both somewhat on the above - in this case the review is a little obscured by the outside references. What I was referring to was more the broader tendency - and this is not a criticism of what you wrote - to be too sensitive to Pitchfork's reviews and general attitude. It is there to provoke and they do a mighty good job of it, even if they do tend to be a little too pretentious about their music tastes a lot of the time. I agree though that in this case the discussion of the album itself left a lot to be desired, but it did raise some interesting issues about the broader place of U2 and, like it or not, the only real place to discuss those issues on a site like Pitchfork is through an album review.

I didn't mean to suggest either that the Pitchfork review specifically gave the band 'more room to think', but that a more considered analysis in the broader sense would remove some of the pressure that U2 have imposed on themselves to be 'relevant' and to be the 'biggest band in the world', etc. I thought it curious that Bono mentioned (on the BBC's Culture Show I think) that the critics were saying it was one of their best albums yet, which shows that they are certainly conscious of what the media is saying and, I think you could imply, a little nervous and worried perhaps about how it would be received. Now I accept that any band will be worried at how their work is received, but I still have this feeling that the abandonment of the constriction of having to have a hit or two and big pop song like 'Crazy Tonight' (which just doesn't work for me) or the utterly-throwaway 'Stand Up Comedy' might make for a freer and more consistently interesting sound that still wouldn't compromise on the quality of the record.

It goes back to Eno's comments, not just in relation to having 'Moment of Surrender' as the lead single simply because they could get away with it (and he has a point given the devaluation of singles), but also his comments about Passengers in his 1995 diary, A Year With Swollen Appendices. Then Eno railed at the decision to put out Original Soundtracks 1 under the Passengers moniker rather than under the name of U2 as had been intended right until the end of those sessions, saying that U2 had earned the right to have that artistic freedom and criticising them for not having the conviction to use that freedom fully. It seems to me that they need to worry less about outward perceptions of their music and to concentrate on shaping the music they want to. I think that we see that in all but the middle section of this album and in the at times over-reliance on that chiming Edge guitar sound to somehow sanitise the sound a little; I would just push for the kind of spontaneity and adverturousness that is clearly visible on 'Moment of Surrender', parts of 'Unknown Caller', 'Fez-Being Born' and the vocal delivery on 'Cedars of Lebanon' (though the latter still reminds me of 'Walk to the Water' each time I hear it). Finally, I tend to agree with the below; the perceived 'failure' of Pop and the manner in which its perception has changed in twelve years has altered the nature and direction of U2's own approach.


I agree completely. But there's something that Pitchfork hit on which is actually rather profound, and a good discussion, at least - is this album really a big risky attack? or is it defensive?

Because I do like some of the experimentation on the album - tracks like Fez and COL and UC are my favorites on the album. But they aren't really that divergent from standard U2 tricks. Even if Eno is trying to make them not sound like U2, he's not doing as good of a job with that as he did with Coldplay.

But, really, there's a run of three songs here (IGC GOYB and SUC) that, while decent songs, are definitely not steps forward, and borderline ruin the mood of the album. And though I adore Magnificent, MOS, Breathe, and WAS, they aren't really bold leaps forward. I think Pitchfork, as inane as the review sometimes is, makes a point there. This feels like another album on the defensive. A bit less on defense than HTDAAB, but still.

What do you think? makes me worried that whatever U2 did with POP's criticism was so powerful that they're never gonna try to really f*** anyone up again.
 
I am probably one of Pitchfork's biggest supporters. Its rare I tolerate a bad word being said about them. I've accepted their reviews of the past two U2 albums wholeheartedly, though it took a while for me to accept ATYCLB (it was the first Pitchfork review I'd ever read).

However, did anybody notice, and I'm sorry if this has already been brought up, that Dombal refused mention any songs about which he might have a good thing to say - the title track, Magnificent, Cedars of Lebanon, for example. Yes, he mentioned Fez to say its not nearly the experiment the band was hyping, but he still could have gone further to say that the second verse, with its chanty Eno speak, is exactly what the band is capable of (not to mention stuff that is right up Pitchfork's alley).

Other than that, I totally disagree with such a low rating. I wasn't expecting anything lower than a 6.2. But still, I do agree with much of what he was saying, even if it was harsh. Too much U2 in this damn thing! Too much for it to be a departure, and regardless of what the band was promising, they absolutely need a departure after their last two albums.

As far as the interesting point they brought up, I agree. This album is a bit defensive - a tiny experiment, but nowhere near experimental enough.

Edit: Nevermind, I thought the "fart of a hook" they mentioned was for Moment of Surrender, not the title track. But that's even more ridiculous! I thought PF liked understatement!
 
A disappointing review, to be sure. Compare this review for In Rainbows:

In Rainbows | Pitchfork

Sure, they spend a lot of time talking about the band's history. But then they really go into detail with most of the songs. As already mentioned, Dombal took a few pot shots at individual No Line songs and then bailed, as if a thorough criticism was beneath him.

And perhaps most irresponsibly, if you're going to give something a 4.2 (which is certainly better than the REALLY low scores they've dished out), then at least tell us what IS good about it. There's not a positive observation about the album in that whole review.

For the record, Pitchfork doesn't delay their reviews as reactions to other ones; they tend to wait for the day/week of release with major titles.
 
As far as I'm concerned, Pitchfork just jumped the shark. They've finally started to cannibalize. This reviewer is obviously a u2 lover...no one else could feel as betrayed or embarassed. But he has not allowed himself to become immersed in NLOTH. He has drowned himself in the media wave surrounding it. He quotes other magazine interviews instead of discussing the tunes themselves. He spends half the article giving us false history...Village People Costumes on the VERTIGO tour??? Use Google images--- cuncbag!!!Is this PerezHilton? 4.2 is obviously not a fair review, just as Animal collective receiving 9.6 is unfair. Pitchfork, today, would award Trout mask replica a 10.0..but give rubber soul and sticky fingers 8.0. Great job guys...Pitchfork just created its' "POP".

You make a good point. But Animal Collective, I think (and according to Metacritic) basically deserves at least a 9.0.

The good point is made about Sticky Fingers and Rubber Soul...but, Trout Mask Replica is better than those two albums, so they'd still be kinda right!

Actually, Blur's Think Tank got a 9.0 I think upon review...they compared it to Sticky Fingers, so you never can tell. A modern Rubber Soul could be a Shins album, which they've given as high as 8.9, so really, while I understand exactly what you're saying and even agree, its not always so cut and dried.
 
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