NFL 2014/2015 - Super Bowl Postmortem

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DaveC said:
How is that trolling or baiting?

I thought it was just a joke about the Mariners perpetually needing "just one more bat". :shrug:

Maybe I don't get the joke.
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I'm puzzled as well.


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Baahahhahh! That's fantastic.

‘I’m going to be point blank, I feel like it’s cheating,” Rice told Rome on January 22. “Because you have an edge up on your opponent and its unfortunate that it happened. I’m not saying the outcome of the game would have been different or anything like that because they got beat 45-7, but they still had an edge.”
 
speedracer said:
Oh my. Time to load up on Aaron Rodgers stock.

Reports: Packers considering changes to offensive staff, play calling responsibilities | ProFootballTalk
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In theory, it makes sense but I wouldn't say that I'm jumping for joy here. The last time the Packers weren't in the top 10 in points was 2006. McCarthy is a very good playcaller and if he's going to give up those duties, Tom Clements better be as good at it.....or give Aaron Rodgers even more ability to run the offense and call his own plays.

But yeah, I'm still lukewarm towards this.
 
There's no question McCarthy has talent at developing players, but to credit them being a top scoring offense to his playcalling based on nothing but them being a top scoring offense is a ridiculous argument. If you are going to support his playcalling, you're going to have to bring more than that to the table.
 
PhilsFan said:
There's no question McCarthy has talent at developing players, but to credit them being a top scoring offense to his playcalling based on nothing but them being a top scoring offense is a ridiculous argument. If you are going to support his playcalling, you're going to have to bring more than that to the table.
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I did bring something to the table. His offense has been in the top 10 in scoring each year since 2006. You don't achieve that or their winning percentage with poor playcalling.

If anything, the notion that McCarthy is a poor playcaller goes against what the data shows and I would say that if you're making an argument that McCarthy is not a good playcaller, then the burden of proof is on you. And before you think that you can point to the 4th & 1 calls in the NFCCG, that would fall under situational coaching, not playcalling.
 
bono_212 said:
It's the same conversation over and over and over again.
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Yeah, and shame on me for even engaging in the conversation. It really is a ridiculous conversation overall. I mean, it's a basic concept that success in the NFL is a true combination of Front Office/GM, Coaches, and Players. It's very difficult to establish long term success if there's a glaring weakness in one of those areas. The only argument I've seen against McCarthy's playcalling is the 2nd guessing of a couple situational coaching decisions during the NFCCG a few weeks ago, some I can even be a little on board with. But as I've said multiple times, hindsight is 20/20.

Any argument that McCarthy is just riding the wave of good players is laughable, and pretty much proves the point that anyone making that argument doesn't really understand the game.

Again, completely understand an argument about situational coaching. Some of the greatest coaches of all time have made calls that were questioned. If the plays were executed correctly, all is forgiven. For us fans, we are in a very convenient position.
 
PhilsFan said:
You're right, I don't understand football.
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Look, I'm not trying to be a dick here, but I'm just saying that as long as I've been watching football, I've understood the basic concept that the coach calls the play and the players are expected to execute. You can't be strong in one area and weak in another and expect to sustain long term success.

Now, if you have hard evidence that McCarthy has made poor play calls and the players on the field have consistently risen above it and excelled anyway towards 7 playoff appearances, 5 division titles, 3 conference championship appearances, and 1 Super Bowl victory in 9 seasons under McCarthy (who took over for a 4-12 team), then please bring your supportive evidence.
 
I think you're either undervaluing how good Rodgers is or undervaluing how important the quarterback position is. I think it's important enough that an elite QB like Rodgers can mask the deficiencies of a coach like McCarthy who is a poor game manager: horrid at situational coaching and merely average at playcalling.
 
That assumes that Rodgers was a god at the game off the bench. I think you're giving him a little too much credit. You clearly don't like McCarthy, you've made that evident. It seems like an "Oh dear, I can see we're not going to agree." situation here.
 
PhilsFan said:
I think you're either undervaluing how good Rodgers is or undervaluing how important the quarterback position is. I think it's important enough that an elite QB like Rodgers can mask the deficiencies of a coach like McCarthy who is a poor game manager: horrid at situational coaching and merely average at playcalling.
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Rodgers is an amazing QB, no doubt, no argument from me. He's one of my favorite players of all time. And in no way am I undervaluing the QB position. With that said, as important as the QB position is, in no way can one player mask major deficiencies by a head coach.

Again, looking for your evidence here.

I'm happy to provide some evidence that debunks your theory of situation coaching game management. Days after Super Bowl 45, McCarthy was asked about why he challenged an incompletion to Brett Swain at the end of the 3rd quarter, and the media challenged him on why he threw the red flag even though it was pretty clear that he'd lose the challenge. McCarthy responded by saying that he felt that the way the pace of the game and momentum was going, that he felt that he needed to put a halt to it. Sure, he could have called a time out which would have resulted in about a minute and a halk break. Instead, he made the officials review the call which took over 3 minutes, about another minute for the officials to spot the ball, and then got another break with the quarter ending. What happened after that? The Packers got a key turnover in the beginning of the 4th quarter which led to 7 points and even more importantly, swung the momentum back in the Packers' favor.

Most people don't know about this story because McCarthy prefers to stay away from the limelight and thinks his players should get the credit.
 
As far as player development goes, it's a chicken-egg argument that we're never going to get to the bottom of because it's impossible to tell how the players McCarthy drafted would perform in the NFL if not for McCarthy's coaching. He gets them first, then we judge their performance. What happens in between is what we need to judge McCarthy on, but we can't because we're not part of the team.

What I can say is that McCarthy is sub-par situationally and makes some incredibly boneheaded play calls. Which isn't to say that he does everything poorly on or off the field. But he makes more conspicuously stupid decisions than the average successful NFL coach. Wasn't he 1 for 7 on challenges last year or something awful like that?
 
LemonMelon said:
As far as player development goes, it's a chicken-egg argument that we're never going to get to the bottom of because it's impossible to tell how the players McCarthy drafted would perform in the NFL if not for McCarthy's coaching. He gets them first, then we judge their performance. What happens in between is what we need to judge McCarthy on, but we can't because we're not part of the team.

What I can say is that McCarthy is sub-par situationally and makes some incredibly boneheaded play calls. Which isn't to say that he does everything poorly on or off the field. But he makes more conspicuously stupid decisions than the average successful NFL coach. Wasn't he 1 for 7 on challenges last year or something awful like that?
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I agree with your first paragraph which kind of bleeds into your 2nd paragraph. What kind of data supports that McCarthy makes poor on field decisions than the average NFL Coach?


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mikal said:
I agree with your first paragraph which kind of bleeds into your 2nd paragraph. What kind of data supports that McCarthy makes poor on field decisions than the average NFL Coach?


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Hey, I actually put a stat down at the end there. That's more than most people do.

It might be fake, but I don't think it is.
 
Here's a stat. If he didn't win a Super Bowl he would have been fired for losing to Seattle in worst way possible. Not ready for Fake FG? Not getting first down in last 5 min to seal it. Giving up 2 pt and onside kick. So many plays. Not all coach fault. But it reflects that he may be an average coach with best qb (sans my tom brady) in league.


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mikal said:
I agree with your first paragraph which kind of bleeds into your 2nd paragraph. What kind of data supports that McCarthy makes poor on field decisions than the average NFL Coach?
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This isn't mass data, but it is game management-related.

I have a hard time understanding why a coach who has Aaron Rodgers on his team would ever say that his team needs to run the ball 20 times in the second half. Could you ever imagine Josh McDaniels or Tom Moore saying that?
 
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