List of references.

[NicaMom]

"We're free to fly the crimson sky
The sun won't melt our wings tonight"
Those are beautiful lyrics, I didn't the story of Daedalus and Icarus.
I always related those lyrics to two lovers finally being free to love each other.

------------------
Mariana
~Even BETTER than the REAL THING~
~We're free to fly the crimson sky
The sun won't melt our wings tonight ~

 

[Achtung Bubba]

Would anyone like to help make a complete list of U2 song references?

Basically, I'm thinking we could use this topic to help catalog the many references within U2 songs to other works -- the Bible, literature, songs, mythology, etc.

Okay. I'll start.

********************

"40"


I waited patiently for the Lord
He inclined and heard my cry
He brought me up out of the pit
Out of the miry clay

He set my feet upon a rock
And made my footsteps firm
Many will see
Many will see and fear


Psalm 40:1-3, King James Version

" I waited patiently for the Lord; and he inclined unto me, and heard my cry.
" He hath brought me up also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, and established my goings.
" And he hath put a new song in my mouth, even praise unto our God: many shall see it, and fear, and shall trust in the Lord."


How long to sing this song?


Psalm 6:3

" My soul is also sore vexed: but thou, O Lord, how long?"

********************

"Even Better Than The Real Thing"


We're free to fly the crimson sky
The sun won't melt our wings tonight


This is an obvious reference to the Greek myth of father and son, Daedalus and Icarus. In order to escape inprisonment from the famous Labyrinth, the pair constructed wings of birds feathers and wax.

During the escape, Icarus ignored his father's advice and flew too close to the sun. His wings melted, and Icarus fell to his doom.

It's also creates an interesting parallelism to the imagery in "New Year's Day":

Under a blood red sky...



[This message has been edited by Achtung Bubba (edited 06-07-2000).]

 

[Achtung Bubba]

I think both ideas work; the Greek myth works as an inspiration for the line, the image of two lovers works as the interpretation.

Beyond any literary references, I've always thought "Even Better..." was a song written from the perspective of a guy whose life is so miserable and lonely that he is willing to accept a plastic relationship and to have fake happiness instead of real grief.

He's willing to beg to have this shallow love:

"Give me one more chance"
"Give me two more chances"
"Give me one last chance"
"Give me half a chance"
"Let me be your lover tonight"

...and he'll promise anything in the process:

"You'll be satisfied"
"You won't be denied"
"I'm gonna make you sing"
"We'll slide down the surface of things"
"We're free to fly the crimson sky
The sun won't melt out wings tonight"

I also always think that this song and Zooropa's "Babyface" are written by the same lonely guy to the same unreachable woman.

But that could be just me.

------------------
- Achtung Bubba

(This song is also one of the reasons I love U2: a really honest song that hits close to home, combined with some great grooves. This song and "Discotheque" both work really well on both levels.

Not that I have girl problems or anything.

)

[This message has been edited by Achtung Bubba (edited 06-08-2000).]

 

[NicaMom]

I have my own interpretation of that song (one of my favorite U2 songs too) but that's the beauty of it.
I won't believe you have a girl problem, LOL
I think Babyface is about a call girl or something like that, but that's just my view, who knows what Bono is thinking when he's writing.

------------------
Mariana
~Even BETTER than the REAL THING~
~We're free to fly the crimson sky
The sun won't melt our wings tonight ~

 

[NicaMom]

Bubba, my interpretation of "Even Better than the real thing" is that it talks about a love affair involving a married man ("give me one more chance...")who at the end is finally divorced...."we're free to fly the crimson sky, the sun won't burn are wings tonight..."
I guess I'm a romantic.

I think part of what makes U2 unique is that they can create these beautiful songs with deep thoughts and at the same time make them sound light.
It's like WOWY or When Love Comes to Town, they could easily pass as love songs when they're really are spiritual songs.

------------------
Mariana
~Even BETTER than the REAL THING~
~We're free to fly the crimson sky
The sun won't melt our wings tonight ~

 

[Achtung Bubba]

(Ignore Mr. Angry.

)

I think there are two interesting subjects on interpretations: what one person takes from the songs, and what Bono actually meant.

I think there IS a right answer to what Bono meant when he wrote Song X, but unless he remembers and somebody asks him, we probably won't know anytime soon. I like talking about that just to debate and just to know a song's history.

I think what a person sees in a song is what makes the song so cool. I like discussing that side just to hear new ideas -- like the call girl idea in "Babyface". I never heard it before, I've never considered it before, but it makes sense.

The other "Babyface" theory I've heard is that the singer is watching a girl on TV (with slow motion and freeze frames).

But now I'm curious: what's *your* interpretation of "Even Better..."?

------------------
- Achtung Bubba

Originally posted by NicaMom:
I won't believe you have a girl problem, LOL

And thanks for the ego boost.

[This message has been edited by Achtung Bubba (edited 06-08-2000).]

 

[MrBTH]

I always get the hint that Bono is singing about his relationship with the audience at U2's concerts. Lines like "I'm gonna make you sing" "ride on the waves that you bring"have that sort of vibe and I think that he's actually singing about himself when he is adressing "you" as in "your'e even better than the real thing". It's as if he was saying, as The Fly, "this is the new me, even better than the old me!" in a strictly tongue in cheek, Ironic way of course. The reason I get these ideas is because of the way he treats the song during the ZooTV live in Sydney video, with his whole self centred ego play, including the camcorder self close ups and the way he plays up to the photographers.

I agree with your other interpretations as well, but I think that this is an example of how U2 can twist their songs in different directions to suit the circumstances, especially live versions.

 

[Ed6150]

Bono writes awesome lyrics

 

[Achtung Bubba]

Let's see...

With one song ("Even Better...") we have the following interpretations/references:

* the myth of Icarus
* an affair where the married man finally divorces
* a guy trying to find happiness in a plastic relationship
* AND the Fly singing to himself

And every interpretation works!

I think this is what distinguishes great lyricists (Bono, Buddy Holly, Billy Joel, etc.) from the mediocre (Mariah Carey, Salman Rushdie). And this is why we keep looking at U2 songs, for more meanings and for deeper meanings.

And this is what makes these conversations so much fun!

...any thoughts on "Please"?

------------------
- Achtung Bubba

 

[theorris]

i know that bono once described please as sunday, bloody sunday written with a bit of a twist. i think you can certainly see the song is set with a backdrop of the "troubles" in ireland. aside from that i think it is a song about the type of person who never becomes motivated or outspoken about an issue until they have something terribly opposite happen to them. "you never felt wanted until you had someone slap your face/you never felt alive, until you almost wasted away." so in a sense maybe its bono saying to the irish people, "you are never gonna be able to get up off your knees and know peace until you get knocked all the way down." make any sense?

 

[ishkash]

you guys did great job analysing the song, but i'll go for audience theory.Don't agree then what does "You take me higher percieve" I'm curious!!!!!!!!
Obviously with someone like Bono he can put entire book in one simple line, but i'm anxious to know what does that line mean.

 

[ishkash]

The first time i listned to PLease i thaught it was a straight forward love song, cause i had no idea about irish sayings,i'mean like "boot of your car".But when i started reading the reviews i got a better idea, but couldn't believed it, untill heard the live version.
Thats the beauty of Bono's lyrics you could be percieving one thing suudenly its totally different.e.g.Lemon I had no idea what the song was all about, untill i read on some site that it was about Bono's mother,but still can't digest that.The best thing about U2 song is the philosophy they use is very simple and you could easily relate to that

 

[MrBTH]

Please is a strange one. I remember the first night Pop came out I stayed over at my friends house and we went to the Music Shop at midnight to get our copies. We then stayed up half the night listening to it and analysing it. Please was definitely the one that jumped out at me straight away as being about Northern Ireland with all it's references to "Shards of Glass, splinters like rain" and "Talks getting nowhere". This was proven during the popmart tour. However it really took on a seriously emotional aspect for me within the next couple of years. The Omagh bomb went off in August 1998. When I listened to please after that I realised how deep that song goes into the subconscious of the people of my country. I realised for the first time what it meant to suffer, to know people who were caught up in the bomb, even killed, and now when I hear Please it makes me so incredibly sad because Bono manages to sum up in a few lines my own feelings, he evokes the horror and prays for the end.

September, streets capsizing
Spilling over, down the drain.
Shards of glass, splinters like rain
If you could only feel your own pain
October, talks getting nowhere,
November
December
Remember
We're just starting again

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE Get up off your knees

The rest of the song is a variation on the theme. Various recriminations and cliches thrown up by both sides down through the years. The one part that confuses me though is the last line "You, my love, I could never believe".Such a negative ending, but realistic in the terms of Northern Ireland since the two sides still can't and won't even try to trust each other. But this line also makes me think that the song has another level that I just havn't been able to see, being so tied up in the Northern Ireland part of the song.

[This message has been edited by MrBTH (edited 06-15-2000).]

 

[MrBTH]

BTW:
Pop is full of NI references. "Staring At the Sun"- "Intransigence is all around, Military still in town, Armour plated suits and ties, Daddy just won't say goodbye" and "Wake Up, Dead Man" - "Listen as hope and peace try to rhyme (quote from Seamus Heaney, Irish Poet), Listen over marching Bands playing out their time". In fact this is one of the best lines on the whole album. That section is a series of statements about what should happen, each followed by the impediment to this happening thet we have to "Listen over". In this case Hope and peace were trying to rhyme but the marching bands, the Drumcree issue and all the other crap that people keep dragging up from the past in Ireland was, and still is, getting in the way. And if we try to just ignore the past, let it play out it's time, then hope and peace will rhyme. It's the same wherever there is conflict.

 

[Achtung Bubba]

I also hear some personal criticisms in "Please".

You had to win
You couldn't just pass
The smartest ass
At the top of the class

Those lines seem so to be stated so directly that they're not aimed at a situation or at a political movement, but at a person--or several people.

Perhaps the four men on the cover of the single for "Please" -- four of the most influencial men in the NI situation -- are directly addressed in the song.

------------------
- Achtung Bubba

 

[dan13]

hey guys
how about starting a discussion on a new song....probably the MOST debated song (as far as its lyrical influences are concerned) in U2's repertoire...."Until the End of the World." is this a song about just love and betrayal? of course. people have different opinions about who the subjects are. i think the song was written from judas' perspective though. about how he loved jesus but betrayed him and then regretting it. yet i dont understand where jesus was "talking about the end of the world." did he talk about it during the last supper? or is there some other reference?

 

[Achtung Bubba]

Just glancing through Matthew, Mark, and Luke, I don't see any obvious references to "the end of the world", that is, the Second Coming and the final judgment of man.

But there are plenty of references to the end of Christ's ministry: that Christ will soon be betrayed, and that He won't eat again until He sees His Father.

For a disciple that didn't see the big picture -- Judas -- Christ's ministry ending by his execution is pretty much the end of his world as he knew it.

Of course, that's just my interpretation. I could be wrong.


And if you can't tell, I'd love to talk about "Until the End of the World." I was just waiting for someone to mention it.

------------------
- Achtung Bubba

[This message has been edited by Achtung Bubba (edited 06-19-2000).]

 

[NicaMom]

I think Until the End of the World is about Judas' betrayal..."I took the money"..."I kissed your lips".
The reference, "You were talking about the end of the world" is because Jesus often talked about his second coming, when we would come face to face with God

------------------
Mariana
To Touch is to Heal
To Hurt is to Steal
If you want to kiss the sky
Better learn how to kneel...

 

[bonovoice]

My opinion will be based in myself and a book about U2!!
It?s about the best song of U2: until the end of the world

The song is about betrayal and redemption...
Betrayal because Edge?s marriage was failing and Larry wasn?t sure of his place in the band anymore....

The song is about an encounter,an illicit one,with a stong suggestion of prostitution.
By one side, he can put it?s writing in the point of view of Judas Iscariot, but we can also put in Bono way,is writing about himself and his own capacity of betrayal.or maybe someone betrayed Bono?
In fact, the Achtung baby album ment the end of the world as they knew...
Finally, i think the song is about betrayal, but i think thats is writen in the poin of vue of the betrayled...
... and knocks that we ear in the firt 10 seconds of the song?
...like Jesus in the cross.... being nailed...

i liked very much the previous opinions about this magnificent song!!!!

(sorry for the bad english)

------------------
until the end of the world...

 

[popsadie]

Hi...newcomer to this forum

Regarding Until The End of the World..i also agree that the Judas/betrayal interpretation is an accurate one.But, I don't think that it is Only supposed to connect to that...I see the ambiguity of the song to be on purpose. To me, the larger theme of betrayal between both man and God and man and his fellow man/woman is the essence of Achtung Baby...and that the two are intertwined with each other. The betrayal of man to another man is also the betrayal of man to God. "For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he Has seen, cannot love God, whom he hasn't seen- 1 John 4:20) A song like UTEOW could be viewed as a betrayal of a human relationship...or as a theme of betrayal/redemption in the Judas account...or as a combination of both...a description of the way some believers feel at times when they come face to face with their failures...a song of guilt about letting down both their fellow man And the God they want to serve...which is the way i often connect with it.
Another song where I see a possible spiritual/romantic love juxtaposition is in WOWY. I know there are alot of interps of this song...but to me, its mostly a song of guilt and struggle..possibly sung by a believing man who has betrayed a wife or friend...thus the mixing of the betrayal/sex images with religous imagery. One could also view it as a straight love song, or as a song about the difficulty of following Christ...with or without you...i can't Live with or without You...on one hand, i can't live the way i want to with You..because being with You involves submission of myself..but on the other hand, I can't Live without You..because You are my true life..the source of my true joy.

in the name of love,
Megan

 

[Achtung Bubba]

There really is quite a bit of sexual imagery in "Until the End of the World."

The low-lit room, the "bride and groom" reference, the bread and wine... the idea of playing the tart, and breaking his/her heart with a kiss...

And perhaps the lyrics that give me the most pause:

In my dream I was drowning my sorrows
But my sorrows, they learned to swim
Surrounding me, going down on me
Spilling over the brim
Waves of regret and waves of joy
I reached out for the one I tried to destroy

I read in Niall Stokes' "Into the Heart" that this could be a reference to, well, to oral sex. I'm uncomfortable about the possibility if the song is ONLY about Christ and Judas, but if it extends to love and betrayal in general, it *could* work.

(As an aside, I think Stokes needs to see a therapist. He's more than a little obsessed on the subject, from what I can tell.)

------------------
- Achtung Bubba

(And welcome to the forum, popsadie!

)

[This message has been edited by Achtung Bubba (edited 06-20-2000).]

 

[NicaMom]

Originally posted by Achtung Bubba:
There really is quite a bit of sexual imagery in "Until the End of the World."

The low-lit room, the "bride and groom" reference, the bread and wine... the idea of playing the tart, and breaking his/her heart with a kiss...

And perhaps the lyrics that give me the most pause:

In my dream I was drowning my sorrows
But my sorrows, they learned to swim
Surrounding me, going down on me
Spilling over the brim
Waves of regret and waves of joy
I reached out for the one I tried to destroy

I read in Niall Stokes' "Into the Heart" that this could be a reference to, well, to oral sex. I'm uncomfortable about the possibility if the song is ONLY about Christ and Judas, but if it extends to love and betrayal in general, it *could* work.

(As an aside, I think Stokes needs to see a therapist. He's more than a little obsessed on the subject, from what I can tell.)

I take "being close as bride and groom" as a reference to the washing of the feet and knowing each other so well.
The bread and wine represents the last supper.
And the "drowning and swiming sorrows" interpretation by Stokes....well I never thought of that and I don't think that's what's about.

------------------
Mariana
To Touch is to Heal
To Hurt is to Steal
If you want to kiss the sky
Better learn how to kneel...

 

[Achtung Bubba]

I hope not, too.

Stokes also thought there was a refernce to it in "Wild Horses", with the line about "saltwater kisses".

My thought? Rhythmically, and image-wise, there's a lot of sexuality in Achtung Baby, perhaps including "Until the End of the World", especially if the song has multiple meanings.

But Stokes went a *little* too far.

------------------
- Achtung Bubba

 

[NicaMom]

Originally posted by Achtung Bubba:

Rhythmically, and image-wise, there's a lot of sexuality in Achtung Baby, perhaps including "Until the End of the World", especially if the song has multiple meanings.

Yeah, I agree, Achtung Baby is a very sexual album. Many of its songs have multiple meanings.
What's your interpretation of "Who's gonna ride your wild horses?" I read that is about an affair one of the band members had.



------------------
Mariana
To Touch is to Heal
To Hurt is to Steal
If you want to kiss the sky
Better learn how to kneel...

 

[Achtung Bubba]

Of all the songs of the 90's, "Who's Gonna Ride..." is to me one of the most cryptic, and one of the most difficult to analyze.

I usually take it as a song from a guy who's desperately pursuing the wrong kind of woman, and in the song he's trying to correct some mistake, to convine her to take him back.

The object is either "the wrong kind of woman", a woman who can't open up to the guy, or just a woman who may not be interested in the man -- bad news for the guy in any case:

Well you left my heart empty as a vacant lot
For any spirit to haunt

Well you tell me things I know you're not supposed to
Then you leave me just out of reach

He's pursuing the woman, perhaps too fervently:

Oh, the hunter will sin for your ivory skin

And he's trying to win back her love (or at least her friendship and affection):

Baby, can we still be friends?

This could all EASILY be applied to an affair one of the boys had (or an affair a friend of theirs had, used as kind of an inspiration). The most interesting thing is that, given it's about an affair, it could be sung to either the mistress or the wife, trying to win either back.

I guess I generalize it to my interpretation because I'm usually in that situation: I usually fall in love with the wrong girl (who likes me but doesn't like me, if you see the difference). I usually screw things up even beyond being friends, and I occasionally try very hard to rebuild the friendship.

So my analysis is probably a BIT skewed.

------------------
- Achtung Bubba

 

[NicaMom]

The line, "Took a drive in the dirty rain, to a place where the wind calls your name", could be interpreted as secret meetings.
Also the lines, "you're a piece a glass left there on the beach" and "you're dangerous 'cos you're honest" could also mean he's afraid she might talk about the affair.
But your interpretation works too.
About those girls, don't worry, you'll find the right one someday.

------------------
Mariana
To Touch is to Heal
To Hurt is to Steal
If you want to kiss the sky
Better learn how to kneel...



[This message has been edited by NicaMom (edited 06-23-2000).]

 

[Achtung Bubba]

Originally posted by NicaMom:
The line, "Took a drive in the dirty rain, to a place where the wind calls your name", could be interpreted as secret meetings.
Also the lines, "you're a piece a glass left there on the beach" and "you're dangerous 'cos you're honest" could also mean he's afraid she might talk about the affair.

I never really thought about those lines that way, but it makes sense.

And we're both ignoring the most important lines of the song:

"Hey, hey, sha-la-la"

And I'm (kinda) confident I'll eventually find the right girl. Until then, I need to relax, let it go, and play "Bad". A lot.

------------------
- Achtung Bubba

[This message has been edited by Achtung Bubba (edited 06-25-2000).]

 

[azure]

Yes, "Achtung Baby" is a very sexy album. Egads, how about EBTTRT? It does sound like someone who's desperate, but it just has such a sexual *ambience* about it, you can just take the idea of two lovers and go anywhere with it.

 

[Salome]

I know this isn't the most recent topic, but since I'm new to this forum I'd still like to say what I think:
- Maybe I'm just a bit crazy, but almost everytime Bono sings about female person to me it sounds like it's about his mother / a God-like creature. Someone whom he wants to get in touch with but just can't.
- Achtung Baby, on numerous occasions, touches on the subject of stardom. EBTTRT and Trying to throw... being the most obvious examples.
- Untill the end ... to me is about the feeling of betraying God by leading the pop-star kind-of-life. Brought to life by the Judas-figure.

At least that's what I think.
Could be way of

 

[Achtung Bubba]

Hey, Salome,

First, welcome to the forum. Second, don't worry about this being an old topic; I was hoping it would be around for a while.

On to your observations:

* Yeah, I agree, the bulk of Bono's obsession with women has probably centered around three figures: his mother ("Lemon"), his wife ("Sweetest Thing"), and probably the Holy Spirit ("The First Time").

* I also agree that Bono's really, REALLY aware of his stardom. Beyond Achtung Baby, he's addressed as recently as "Hold Me..." and "Gone" and as early as "The Ocean".

(Speaking of "The Ocean", I have a couple thoughts on the song. First, taking the ocean as a metaphor for the sea of fans, the song is prophetic and little presumptious for Bono of 1979-80. And taking it as a song of youth thinking the world revolves around it, it's quite observant.)

* Finally, I don't think anyone's mentioned the rock star slant on "Until the End...". It sounds reasonable, and I'd love to hear why you came to that conclusion.



------------------
- Achtung Bubba