Great interview - "Bono on the New Album" (Unforgettable Fire, that is)

[Michael Griffiths]

Found this great site with a bunch of cool articles from U2's early days. Articles seem to be coming from something called U2 Magazine:

http://www.richard.hare.dsl.pipex.com/u2info10.html

Here's just one of the great interviews/articles:


Bono on the New Album

The new album is likely to make quite a break with the past. After the War tour, Bono said, "Everyone feels a weight off their shoulders. We feel like we're in a new group now. I can't sleep at night with thoughts about the next record."

"It would be wrong for me to say, yes, we can change the world with a song. Hut every time I try writing that's where I'm at. I'm not stupid. I'm aware of the futility of rock 'n roll music, but I'm also aware of its power. We're only coming to terms with our trade. We've yet to become craftsmen. Well, maybe we should never become craftsmen. It's great fun being in this band."

"You can't parody yourself", Bono states. "There were so many groups sounding like us at one point that when we'd play a song we'd say 'that sounds a bit like U2 hold on a second we are U2!' (laughs) that was happening. You nearly parody yourself and you've got to stop. That was what Edge had to do anyway.

"People all over America say 'what about these people who are robbing your sound?' and Edge's reply to that has always been, 'well look, y'know fine, take the sound - but it's not a sound that makes music good - it's where that sound comes from and why it's coming out of a person and they can't copy that.

"And it is definitely The Edge. The crew have a joke about it. They have to set up his amps and put the guitar on and I've put my fingers where Edge puts his fingers and I've had his amps and his machines and the settings that he has them on and I've played and it sounds like - no good: And it's him it's truly the way he plays and I think whatever instrument he plays will always have that distinctive quality. But there was a time he was so distinctive he was running into trouble. So he stopped playing it and got into rock 'n roll guitar and he got into acoustic guitar".

When Bono says that "everyone has their own theory about this group - what it is we really are", he's scarcely being self-indulgent. For a band who have so openly and honestly expressed themselves from the outset, U2 have paradoxically had to deal with an inordinate amount of misinterpretation and even prejudice. At the very least, there have been a lot of misconceptions. Bono catalogues a few of them.

"First of all we started out and made 'Boy' which is 'a sexual LP and we changed the cover in America to stop any concern there might be about paedophilia and the like because it was our first album. But import copies got in and, as you know, in America a lot of music is broken first in gay clubs and so we had a gay audience, a lot of people who were convinced the music was specifically for them So there was a misconception if you like.

"Then in London there was the whole conception of 'Paddies' maybe. 'What are they?' They thought of the Boomtown Rats, Rory Gallagher, Van The Man - 'Irishness' was even a box people tried to put us into, but that's a box we're quite proud to be in because our music is Irish.

Then after 'Boy' we made 'October' which is a spiritual LP and a lot of people went: 'what the hell is going on here' - especially in England where people wouldn't be aware of how much religion is part of everyday life here in Ireland and how much stick people get here. They're not aware of how deep that runs. So they went off' on that one for a while.

"So then 'War' came out and to some people in America again, it was 'the political band' and they loved it and they failed to see that 'War' was an emotional LP rather than a political one. So there have been misconceptions all the way and it's like chasing your tail. So I just stopped. But I find it interesting to see the amount of controversy that surrounds a group. I mean, I have heard amazing stories, about myself that I only wish were true. (laughs)

"People talk about taboos in rock 'n roll. They talk about all this and it's totally conservative. They talk about music and how it should open up to new areas. Look, there're few singers, few musicians, few painters who aren't aware of the third part of their being - the spirit. And I just expressed that in the music and a few people pressed the panic button. Because if I lie the music will choke on itself. That's the choice. And I was going through that on 'October' - what is the choice, write about Johnny and Mary or what? Would you like me to ram love songs down your throat, love songs that I don't believe in? People used to say that U2 have never written love songs - well what do they want instead of that? I mean, do people prefer lies? I think that's the question people should ask.

"As it is the lyrics are autobiographical - and there are four people in this group not one. Our music is not just inviting people to my own nightmare or daydream. It's much more than that. It is, when it comes down to it, very aggressive rock 'n roll music - very aggressive. I think it's aggressive in its insight as well as in the music. And I think you feel you're doing something right when you get plus and minus reaction like we've been getting.

"People say that a U2 concert and a Clash concert are similar in terms of reaction, but I think they're worlds apart. I like the Clash and I like Joe Strummer, I think he's an honest man and I don't want to be hard on them. But sometimes people go to a concert, any concert, and they're nervous. There's tension there and, at some concerts I've been to, the tension is still there at the end when people walk out. A U2 concert seems to be different, and that's the healing thing, the washing thing. I really believe that rock 'n roll is very powerful. There's unity for an hour and a half - musicians can do what politicians can't do and I think those feelings, those communal feelings are quite addictive. You feel that warmth and you go after it. Rock 'n roll should be a release. If the Garda Siochana realised that at our concerts in Gaiety Green car park, there was a real explosion, a real release, the steam pouring from the valve... Rock 'n roll is for that and it's best expressed in music, which is a positive thing, than to express it all over somebody's face in a blow.

"I want to inspire people and fire up people. You know that thing: 'Lie down in your own mess'. our music is not something to lie down to, to get out of to, to die to, to commit suicide to. It's not a soundtrack to a nervous breakdown.

"People would not react if I went out and carried on like Elvis Presley or Mick Jagger or David Bowie. People do react if I go out and car-y on like Bono. And I like that. That's the best indication that I'm right for my time."

"Half of me says 'I know I can't change the world' and there's another half of me that, everytime I write a song, I want it to change the world. I don't know if that's naivety or stupidity in me but I do know that music has changed me and I know that in Vietnam music helped change a generation's attitudes. I don't try to change the world, I don't even try to change people - but in the same way I've changed I think other people change too. That's what's important - the individual, that's where you start. In 'Rolling Stone' I said that revolution begins in your heart, in your refusal to compromise your own beliefs, and I think that expresses it.

It's music to fire people up so that maybe they will fight back, not again, with sticks and stones but in some other way, some other channel. And I think that's a fact, that's real. I know that a lot of good things have happened. Sometimes with U2 you can end up talking about U2 in the abstract but the music is very real."

"People are quite aware that there's no stage big enough for me - I like to stretch the stage and I've often found myself singing from the back of the hall rather than the front. I'm always trying to get across, to communicate. At the US Festival, I climbed to the top of the stage to get to the people at the back - there were 300,000 there - and I put a white flag at the top and it counted as a symbol, a broadstroke to that mass of people.

"But another time I went into the audience in L.A. at a big sports complex - there were about 12,000 people there - with a big white flag, and the flag was torn to shreds and I was nearly torn to shreds I got onto the balcony and found myself looking down and then I found myself jumping about 20 feet into this sea of people, and they caught me and passed me along from the back until eventually I got up onto the stage nearly naked, wondering 'what have I done, what's happened?' Because although the people caught me some other people jumped off the balcony after, and there was, but there may not have been, people to catch them. And it was at that stage I had to think - responsibility. I mean, the place had gone beserk - what if somebod had died.

"My ambition for U2 has always been to push it to its limits - the most aggress- ive music ever made and, at the same time the most sensitive, different levels. I woke up a few months ago and found out I was Irish (laughs and that has made an impact and it's going to make an impact on the music. Because this is an Irish group and I'm realising that the very weapons you need are all around you.

"I can't tell you where we're about to go but I know that I can't sleep at night with the thought of it all. I'm so excited about this idea that we've just begun - the way I feel is that we're undertaking a real departure. I can't stop talking about it. It would take about ten men to hold me down at the moment.

"People say we take ourselves too seriously and I might have to plead guilty to that. But really I don't take myself too seriously, we don't take ourselves seriously, - but we do take the music seriously."

 

[Michael Griffiths]

Another great couple articles...first let's hear from Adam...

ADAM CLAYTON IN CONVERSATION WITH NEIL STOREY
Windmill Lane, Dublin, Sunday 29th July

N: The album - how difficult has it been?
A: Well the album has been no more difficult than any other album to make - it's taken slightly longer this time. It's obviously not the right time for post-mortems at this point, as we haven't even finished yet, but certainly a lot of the reason why the album has taken slightly longer is the nature in which we did it. We started with a new producer for our fourth studio album, so it was a big change.

N: What were the reasons for choosing Eno as opposed to any of the other people that were mentioned at one point - the Jimmy lovine's of this world and people like that?
A: I think they were all good ideas at the time, and we considered them but it came closer and closer to making a decision and none of them felt spot-on. I think the band basically has a very personal attitude to the way it works, and people around us who are close are important, and I think if we'd gone for somebody American it would have been very alien to our world and way of working. And there wasn't really any anybody English who was available or right, that we felt 100% right about, until Brian came along.

N: Where did the original idea of using Brian come from?
A: I don't remember. It's one of those ideas that crops up - somebody says 'What about using Brian Eno?' and people say 'Yeah, that's interesting'. I think it had been around for a while, I think we couldn't have done it if he had still been working with Talking Heads, and at the time when it had cropped up, he had been working with Talking Heads, and it wouldn't have been right to have used him then. We wanted him to actually come to this project with something of a period to move away from Talking Heads and be prepared to start with a rock band again. And he was certainly interested and excited by that idea.

N: How surprised do you think he was by being approached by basically rock 'n roll band like yourselves?
A: I don't think he was sur prised by us. I think some of the other people who approach him are the ones that surprise him - like Whitesnake, or what ever. He said he gets two or three requests a week, and most of them are fairly normal, but he said the odd time when he gets metal bands approaching him, he finds that very odd. Mind you, it's probably the next thing he'd do, knowing the way he thinks. (laughs)

N: So therefore as soon as he was confirmed you took the decision to move to Slane Castle...
A: Well, Slane had been an integral part of it long before he'd been committed to it, because Iovine had seen it with a view to recording there as well.

N: The ambience of actually recording out of Windmill Lane, and in somewhere like Slane, means that you can actually live there and almost record in your dining roam.
A: There were three essential reasons, I think. First of all Windmill isn't conducive to live recording, they don't have a live room, it's very much a controlled studio atmosphere. And our plan has been progressively over the albums that we've done, that we want to get back to doing live takes rather than the usual way of recording from the bass drum up. So we needed a place where we could do that, we needed a place that sounded good - now Slane we could play live and the rooms sounded good, and also we've done three records here (Windmill Lane) and to be perfectly honest it was nice to have a different environment.

N: Coupled with the fact that when I was up there I saw you had a rehearsal room so that meant you were rehearsing the songs prior to going in and putting down the basics?
A: We spent a month or two writing up there anyway, so we had a good technique, so if we had a problem we could work it out in the rehearsal room, and then go into the main room to record.

N: So therefore down in Windmill the finishing off process has happened?
A: Yes, we saved a lot of overdubs for down here because the desk that we'd basically recorded the backing tracks on is a very simple desk, and you couldn't do that much special treatment and that sort of thing with what you were doin so we did more of that here.

N: And for the first time you've used a Fairlight.
A: Only out of convenience really. We had done some demos in a studio with a Fairlight, we had Brian who obviously knows about synthesizers, and we've just filled out the textures of the songs with instruments and sounds. In fact we've only really used the Fairlight on one track, and in fact we've added to that with real orchestration. We used the fairlight just for convenience to put down some string ideas, and came back to it later with an arranger and put down real strings as well. So I think the Fairlight was only really used as a means to an end, to see if an idea worked.

N: The extra instrumentation - Edge is presumably using various keyboards and so on?
A: In a funny way we haven't ended up using as much keyboards as we thought we might. In that I menu none of the keyboards at any point are ever highlighted. In the past, because we didn't have keyboards a lot of the overdubs would end up being guitar or bass - to fill out all the extra textures. Now that we've got keyboards it's a lot quicker and easier to find a sound on a keyboard and put a part down that doesn't necessarily have to be highlighted in a stage situation.

N: How much do you think the playing has changed or shall we say matured. I remember Bono saying as the album was beginning to be conceived, that it was the giant leap forward. Do you think it has been that great leap forward for U2? Was it really the end of U2 Mk.1 and the beginning of Mk2?
A: I think so, but it's not something that you put the record on and say instantly 'wow, haven't they changed, haven't they matured, it's completely different'. It's not that - it's a small step. Larry's playing is amazing - well it always has been, but it's developed even more on this record. I think in a way Edge and probably do much the same as we've always done, except just better. Bono's singing and structuring of songs has improved, it's more mature.

N: Don't you think that's a direct result of having someone like Eno working as obviously closely as he is? In the sense that this time round you're using a producer with an engineer as opposed to an engineer turned producer. I think that's the crux of it.
A: That s right. I think the effect that Eno's had is because he hasn't known how we've worked in the past. He's forced us up avenues we wouldn't naturally have gone in the confines of our comfortable relationship with Steve Lillywhite - and that's what's changed it. I think also the whole feel of the record is deeper emotionally. We still have the hard songs that we've always had, but I think they're treated in a less hard way. I don't think that takes away from the excitement of them, I just think it gives them more depth overall. And it means you can go back to them more and more.

N: How was the title of the album reached - because that has connotations which go beyond just a name on a record sleeve?
A: Well on the last American tour the Chicago Peace Museum contacted us, and they were putting on an exhibition basically of various peace-type statements - not so much in a Sixties way - it was more various people in the public eye's contribution to peace in a general sense rather than the peace movement or anything, and of course Yoko Ono was seriously involved and was donating bits and pieces of John's, bits and pieces that were no longer of any use to her. (laughs) And they contacted us and we in fact exhibited the stage set of the 'War' tour, but the mainstay of the exhibition was a series of paintings - Japanese paintings - called the 'Unforgettable Fire' paintings. Now they are in fact Japanese National Treasures, and what they are - they are scribblings and paintings and sketches by the victims of the two A-Bombs, and they're basically first hand information on what those people saw. They didn't necessarily have any technical background, they just had the fact that they'd gone through this horrific experience and this was the only way they could communicate what it was like. So, essentially they're crude, but I think they display the message.

N: Presumably that had a fairly profound effect on you...
A: Yeah, not in a particular gory way, because that wasn't the feeling that comes over in these things. What is interesting in what comes over in these pictures that actually can be explicit at times is the utter sadness that mankind has actually got to this point where it can inflict this sort of suffering on each other for a crazy ideal, or perhaps not so crazy if one is trying to defend peace, but it certainly seems an extreme to go to.

N: Do you think that the theme of the album will come very much to the fore in the live shows?
A: I don't think that by calling the album after that exhibition the similarity necessarily goes any further than just endorsing that. I don't think it's all album of songs about peace. I think just the feelings and the textures and the colours of those paintings, and the emotions, are the things that are transcending themselves onto the album, rather than any special message.

N: This is one mighty tour isn't it! It's New Zealand and Australia for the first time...
A: Well I actually feel good that on the eve of our fourth album release there's actually somewhere in the world that we haven't been! (laughs) It certainly makes it easier to get back out there and tour, because you know over the years we've done a hell of a lot of touring, and there's only so many hotels in New York that you can see, and you do get to the point where you feel as if you've been there forever.

N: Do you ever get fed up with it?
A: Yeah, but it's an occupational hazard. I think everyone assumes that if you have an interesting job that it must be marvellous 24 hours of the day. Of course it's not, but as long as you believe in it enough to get through the times that are tough, then it's the right job for you.

N: The other thing is that you are now moving to the stage that inevitably there's wierd criticisms being levelled at you in the sense that you're no longer playing The Marquee and Hope 6 Anchor and the Moonlight Club, you're now moving on to the stage where you're actualy going to be playing Wembley.
A: I think largely it answers itself...

N: I think it does as well, but there are obviously people out there who are going to think U2 have sold out, they're going out to play Wembley - Why? Why do our band have to go out and play places that Styx and that kind of group play?'
A: There are several answers to that. Firstly, if people want to come to a stand up show, there's two shows at the Brixton Academy, that's their choice - and we've done that with that in mind. One of the Wembley shows, we're donating the proceeds to Amnesty. Then the next show, if there're that many people that want to buy tickets, it's pointless putting the show on in the Marquee because it turns into an elitist gig then - it means the price of the tickets for everyone ends up being up around f250 and the only people making money out of it are the ticket touts.

N: Coupled with the fact that the production for this tour is obviously going to be more major than for the last tour.
A: There is the alternative that we could play seven nights in the Hammersmith Odeon, but that in a way diffuses the whole point of a U2 show, which is that we do the definitive show, and that's it - it moves on. If we did seven nights in the same place I don't think it would be doing justice to us. Obviously people are going to say well why don't you do 10 days at the Hammersmith Odeon, but that's a bit like doing a run at the Old Vic and just diffuses any energy out of the situation.

N: In retrospect, how do you feel to the other albums. How do you feel now to having made this one to 'Boy'? Do you actually look back on Boy with affection or...
A: Yeah - I think you always remember the first child with affection. Not necessarily favouritism.

N: Was 'October' therefore the problem child?
A: It was the problem child at the time, but when I listen to all the records I really can't fault them an awful lot. What's nice about them is that there's no ambiguity in terms of what it is at that time. They do for me sum up that year's work and there's no loose ends on those records, they seem to tie it up nicely. All the way through to 'Under A Blood Red Skv' even, and this record in a way I'll only realise the full potential in a year's time. When I've had the chance to play the songs live, listen to it, go back to it, and I don't think it'll disappoint me in a year's time or even 10 year's time.

N: Are there any parts of any albums that you'd like to re-do?
A: There's probably certainly things that I'd like to re-do in terms of how, say, a song has developed live - but I would never do it because I think it would be disrespectful to the actual time and period.

N: I was thinking of the way something like 'The Ocean' developed when you were doing that live.
A: Yeah - it developed, but it still has it's own charm on the record, and I stand over that charm in a way.

N: Do you actually have a favourite U2 song?
A: I think 'Drowning Man' is my favourite. It's got so much emotion and poise in it. And it's quite odd sounding as well. I mean the vocals are terrific and I think the backing track is just a lovely swell, and feel of water almost, to it. It's like a waterfall.


And now back to Bono...


BONO TALKS ABOUT THE NEW ALBUM
"Brian Eno, apart from David Bowie and Talking Heads, walked away from producing records a few years ago. He was very much disillusioned with rock 'n roll. The reason he was disillusioned with rock 'n roll is pretty similar to the reason why we are not a rock 'n roll band in the true classic sense. He was interested in the passion of our music as I was interested in his innovation, and U2 are about that. Daniel Lanois is the person he's been working with for the last three years. He was awarded Producer of the Year in Canada last year and this year. He's a French-Canadian chap and Eno believes he's remarkable and we were talking to him to see about working in sort of an engineering capacity cum generally just' working with Eno himself."

So when did you decide you weren't going to work with Steve Lillywhite again" has he been a contender up to now?

"No. He hasn't been a contender, actually. We decided that after our last record. Steve was helping us to decide about a new producer and he is very close to the group but it's very important to keep away from becoming a parody of yourself and there are many, many groups all over the world, where people say 'Oh U2. You sound like that group.' Progressive music must progress so we took that decision and it's very difficult to replace Steve Lillywhite. It was a very, very difficult decision."

I noticed in a couple of interviews you gave last year that you said you were considering some far more radical steps for the next album and obviously this is a pretty radical step.

"Yes, it is. At the same time I think it is very important that at this point in our career that we do not mellow out. You know, I see so many groups they accept, they accept the bait, accept the bribe and they mellow out. For U2 our hunger and our thirst as a group has never been so intense. We want to make our music more aggressive, more exciting, more melodic."

More of everything? -

"Yeah, we feel we are only beginning as a group. We feel that U2 hasn't been born yet. I see that 'Boy', 'October' and 'War' in some ways was a cycle. And if you take 'Under A Blood Red Sky' as the full stop at the end of the sentence, you know, we are beginning a new paragraph. 'Boy' is a sexual record of sorts, 'October' is a spiritual record. 'War', I don't know what. It was as if U2 were learning how to be U2. Now we want to find out what U2 can do."

You get the impression that each member of the group is a very important part of the group.

"There aren't actually many groups in the world right now. You have singer/ songwriters and their accomplices or you have two singer/songwriters and their accomplices. But you rarely have a group of four parts where each part has its strong and distinct personality - probably not since The Beatles or The Stones or The Who. I think there was a period music went through. It seems to have lost it recently and I should stress that I probably do the others a disservice in doing this interview. They're well able to speak for themselves and even if Larry doesn't want to speak even in that he makes a point (laughs)."

Are having names like Bono and The Edge a way of distancing yourself from your public image or your public self?

"I would suggest the opposite. The name 'Bono' was a term of affection amongst a group of people that U2 broke out of. I don't know what you would cal1 it but a set of people who had a different approach to what was going on in this city Dublin and this country Ireland. We are very, very close and these were nicknames , and in allowing our audience into those nicknames, I think we are in fact stating a closeness with our audience. The people whom I love and who love me refer to me by the name Bono. My father refers to me as Paul Hewson. If that makes any sense?"

Yes, certainly does. The Edge seems to be a very serious person on stage. Is he the same in day to day life, or is he just concentrating very hard?

"As you noticed, he's often playing two instruments at the same time. If it's not the guitar and the piano, it's the guitar and various treatments he's putting through. He's got an extremely high IQ, he's very bright, at the same time ... he's in charge of silly suggestions. He's usually the one who diffuses me. I'm the one who can end up standing on the table during the board meeting shouting at people and he'd be the one who remarks on the bad smell. You know, somebody's cheap after-shave (laughs). He's got a gift of using things. He's a special guitar player. He doesn't hold the guitar up as an instrument to be worshipped. In fact, it's said of him that he only takes the guitar out on formal occasions. He takes the music very seriously, but he doesn't take himself very seriously."

"U2 is not a political band or anything like it you know. We are four people and it's a part of us. As is an emotion of love which is the strongest emotion on the LP of 'War'. As is many other things - the throw away side of the group in a son like 'Party Girl'. That's important too. That song was written in ten minutes and I think it took about ten minutes to produce and record. It was half an hour and it was completed. It's as important in some respects."

U2 MAGAZINE compiled and edited by Geoff Parkyn. Published by U2 INFO, P.O. Box 48, London N6 5RU, England, and U2 INFO, P.0. Box 156, Princeton Jctn, New Jersey 08550, U.S.A.
Please remember to include return postage for personal replies to any correspondence.
Special thanks to Paul McGuinness, Anne Louise Kelly, Neil and all at Island Records, Nick Stewart and Blue Mountain Music. Front cover Hans Arne Nakrem/Hilde Jakobsen, rear cover Youichi Saitoh. Other photography Antoine Moonen, Steve Rapport, Hans Arne Nakrem/Hilde Jakobsen, Akemi and others.

Thanks to U2 - all the best for the tour.
Best wishes,

(c) 1984 U2 Magazine

 

[angelordevil]

I can't stop talking about it. It would take about ten men to hold me down at the moment.

Talk about enthusiasm

Great find

 

[Michael Griffiths]

Interesting to see Bono saying how War isn't a political album, but an emotional one. I can see that.

 

[ponkine]

Those were the times which Bono didn't say "Punk Rock From Venus", "Best Collections of Songs Ever Created", "Our Truly Best Album", etc

The best sentence is:

You Can't Parody Yourself - Bono 1984 ...

 

[t8thgr8]

Maybe thats the 2000's U2 joke.. parodying themselves.

 

[Reggie Thee Dog]

Ah Bono's been spewing shite for years...he just seems to be parroting himself lately. Bono still has the same fire he had in 1984, whether you like the way he expresses himself or not.

 

[u2head]

Interesting that Drowning Man is Adam's favorite. I'm not too sure now, but I thought I heard or read somewhere that Bono wrote the song for Adam. (I have to dig up those old Propaganda mags.)

 

[gareth brown]

please do that'd be great.

i've always thought Adam and Edge gave the best interviews, personally. On that note, anyone got any old Edge interviews from around then, please?