Clayton: U2's Musical Conscience or Musical Sellout?

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jick

jick

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Here are excerpts from a TIME magazine article on U2's latest album:
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"When it comes to signing off on a project," says Clayton, "you ask questions like, 'Have we got a first single to open the campaign?' Frankly, we were missing more than just a first single."
----------------------------------------
"On the last album there was lots of good feeling," says Clayton, "but only Beautiful Day was a hit. I felt that, if our goal is still to be the biggest band in the world, the new record had to have three or four songs that would bring in new people. Three or four hits."
----------------------------------------
After 10 months of endless talking and recording-studio drudgery, U2 held another meeting and finally reached something approaching unanimity on the new album. "I do believe we have the hits now," says Clayton — and he's right. How to Dismantle an Atomic Bomb is the catchiest album U2 has ever made.
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"I suppose if people want to shower you with honors, the only reasonable thing to do is accept them," says Clayton.
---------------------------------------

Back in the Elevation Tour, Bono introduced Clayton as the musical conscience of the band. But based on the published reports, Clayton is actually the musical sellout of the band. It seems like Clayton is the one hindering them from pushing the envelope of art and taking creative risks at this stage of their career.

It seems he is just concerned about making "hits" and singles. He equates being the biggest band in the world to having three or four hit songs, and that ATYCLB was a failure because it had only one hit.

I always thought Clayton had a more profound understanding of music. I had high respect for Clayton to be a good neutralizer in the U2 camp. I thought he would be the one to keep the band from veering too far off. But now it seems like he is the shallow childish one who is concerned about nothing else but making hits and good singles. Perhaps he has a hidden fantasy to join some boyband that makes hits?

TIME Magazine is a very respected publication. I respect them so much because they have put U2 on their cover twice, so they know their music. When TIME magazine says the album has no depth, and that Clayton is the culprit for insisting that they needed to have more hits - then my respect for Clayton has dropped a few notches.

I think Clayton should stop being childish and shallow. He should be concerned about making great music, and not concerned about making hits and being showered with honors. For this album, Clayton is the singular reason U2 seem a little bit restrained. I hope U2 can bounce back from this debacle and make the songs more ambitious in the live setting (which they normally always do anyway).

Cheers,

J
 
jick said:
Here are excerpts from a TIME magazine article on U2's latest album:
----------------------------------------
"When it comes to signing off on a project," says Clayton, "you ask questions like, 'Have we got a first single to open the campaign?' Frankly, we were missing more than just a first single."
----------------------------------------
"On the last album there was lots of good feeling," says Clayton, "but only Beautiful Day was a hit. I felt that, if our goal is still to be the biggest band in the world, the new record had to have three or four songs that would bring in new people. Three or four hits."
----------------------------------------
After 10 months of endless talking and recording-studio drudgery, U2 held another meeting and finally reached something approaching unanimity on the new album. "I do believe we have the hits now," says Clayton — and he's right. How to Dismantle an Atomic Bomb is the catchiest album U2 has ever made.
---------------------------------------
"I suppose if people want to shower you with honors, the only reasonable thing to do is accept them," says Clayton.
---------------------------------------

Back in the Elevation Tour, Bono introduced Clayton as the musical conscience of the band. But based on the published reports, Clayton is actually the musical sellout of the band. It seems like Clayton is the one hindering them from pushing the envelope of art and taking creative risks at this stage of their career.

It seems he is just concerned about making "hits" and singles. He equates being the biggest band in the world to having three or four hit songs, and that ATYCLB was a failure because it had only one hit.

I always thought Clayton had a more profound understanding of music. I had high respect for Clayton to be a good neutralizer in the U2 camp. I thought he would be the one to keep the band from veering too far off. But now it seems like he is the shallow childish one who is concerned about nothing else but making hits and good singles. Perhaps he has a hidden fantasy to join some boyband that makes hits?

TIME Magazine is a very respected publication. I respect them so much because they have put U2 on their cover twice, so they know their music. When TIME magazine says the album has no depth, and that Clayton is the culprit for insisting that they needed to have more hits - then my respect for Clayton has dropped a few notches.

I think Clayton should stop being childish and shallow. He should be concerned about making great music, and not concerned about making hits and being showered with honors. For this album, Clayton is the singular reason U2 seem a little bit restrained. I hope U2 can bounce back from this debacle and make the songs more ambitious in the live setting (which they normally always do anyway).

Cheers,

J
Click to expand...

i still believe Clayton IS concerned about making great music and not only hits. and i can't imagine him dreaming (even unconsiously) about joining some boysband....
 
jick said:

----------------------------------------
"On the last album there was lots of good feeling," says Clayton, "but only Beautiful Day was a hit. I felt that, if our goal is still to be the biggest band in the world, the new record had to have three or four songs that would bring in new people. Three or four hits."
----------------------------------------
Click to expand...

i've thought about it once more and i think this is right. to stay on top they have to have new fans and not only the old, loyal ones. and they won't make it without hits, cause without hits new people won't hear about them (you won't become a fun of a group just because you've heard one their song somewhere. i don't think it works like this today...).

o.k. i'm off to my classes. take care, e.
 
I agree with Adam, the music industry is all about making Hits as well as good albums.

If U2 do not produce a good, strong single than that person driving along in their car listening to the radio will not hear a great U2 song and go out and buy the album.


It is all about getting new fans, it is not selling out.
 
Interesting that Adam chose A man and a woman as one of his favorite songs off HTDAAB - not exactly single worthy - a bit more quircky than others (still is a favorite of mine - but then again the whole album is a favorite of mine)
 
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Wanting hits is not necessarily selling out. What's the purpose of making music if no one is listening to it? I think that's the idea.
 
ramblin rose said:
Is there any reason Jick has moved to Pleba?
Click to expand...

The act is getting old over there and/or due to the passionate nature of PLEBA, a better chance of getting people REALLY wound up.
 
oh no

jick's tainted PLEBA as well now
ans i thought it was safe here

why??? WHY????

what on earth does PLEBA have to do with this anyway? its far more suited to EYKIW - you're just trying to get a rise out us, are EYKIW not paying you enough attention anymore?

come back when you've got some shirtless pics of bono and not a nasty thing to say about them
 
digsy said:
oh no

jick's tainted PLEBA as well now
ans i thought it was safe here

why??? WHY????

what on earth does PLEBA have to do with this anyway? its far more suited to EYKIW - you're just trying to get a rise out us, are EYKIW not paying you enough attention anymore?

come back when you've got some shirtless pics of bono and not a nasty thing to say about them
Click to expand...

:lol:

:yes:

speaking of which....

bono_shirtless.jpg
 
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digsy said:
what on earth does PLEBA have to do with this anyway? its far more suited to EYKIW - you're just trying to get a rise out us, are EYKIW not paying you enough attention anymore?

come back when you've got some shirtless pics of bono and not a nasty thing to say about them
Click to expand...


Actually...

PLEBA
Talk all you want about Larry, The Edge, Bono, Adam, and Paul McGuinness.
Click to expand...

It could probably go in either forum. Nowhere does it say this forum is only for posting hot pictures. :shrug: It just ended up that way, well I guess it even started that way.... lol.

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is, as much as jick annoys the crap out of the majority of this forum, he is not, nor does he really ever, break the rules. :huh: So.. I guess the best thing to do would be to ignore his posts, if you dont care to read them.

Who knows, maybe one day he'll have something positive to say about the band. That's what fans usually do dont they? :|
 
I take issue with Adam's comment that ATYCLB only had one hit.

"Stuck..." was certainly a hit song, charting on the U.S. and U.K. charts (peaking at #2 on the U.K. charts). The proof that "Stuck..." was a hit came when ATYCLB started to reclimb the charts once "Stuck..." was released. That shows a song is a hit as it's helping the album sell better.

ATYCLB sold 4+ million in the U.S. Those type of sales aren't generated by just one hit song.

As for HTDAAB being the "catchiest" album yet, hmmm... I can certainly hear quite a few hit songs from it, but I'm not sure it's the most catchy - time will tell. For now, I think AB has that honor.
 
Here's the full article.

http://www.atu2.com/news/article.src?ID=3615

You took some things out of context like this--

"I suppose if people want to shower you with honors, the only reasonable thing to do is accept them," says Clayton.

You didn't mention that the article was writing about U2 getting inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame (well they're eligible next year, but they're shoe-in to get it.) This was Adam's respone to that.

You say you had high respect for Adam then you read this, em, from reading your other posts about Adam, that doesn't seem true at all.

Adam simply understands how it works in the music business, nowadays, he's a realist, that's all.

Wasn't it Larry who said they should actually make a pop album? And that they were competing against Britney Spears and Backstreet Boys?

Why were Bono and Edge at that Apple Convention for the U2-ipods.

Bono--"I can't stand rock stars that are like, 'I didn't want to become famous, I just wanted to make music.' "Become a potter! there must be something of the exhibitionist inside."

They all want to be the best band in the world, and you can't do that if people don't hear your music.

That's why a good song will have a "hook," it brings you in.

Singles are those "hooks" for an album.

Something you missed from the article--

"Clayton, 44, and Mullen Jr., 43, focused on each track and then voted decisively that the songs were simply not good enough. "When it comes to signing off on a project," says Clayton, "you ask questions like, 'Have we got a first single to open the campaign?' Frankly, we were missing more than just a first single." Says Mullen Jr.: "It was awkward, but it had to be said."

Larry says it had to be said, he agreed.

Adam is the only one in the band, who once named "October" as his favourite U2 album. October! Even some fans don't care for that one much. There's some deep stuff on October if you look for it.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Adam says things that are lot deeper than things most of the men I know say.

"Making love involves two people, having sex only involves one."

"In a live situation, there's really no such thing as perfection...
You can't deal in perfection. You can only deal in emotion."

"I think women are the stronger sex. I don't think it's necessarily putting women on a pedestal, but I think it's acknowledging that women are stronger and you need their support and companionship to help you realise your potential as a man."

Not to mention he's appreciative of the fans.

"We've got great fans. They follow us through all sorts of changes, and in many ways they encourage us to continue pursuing music that excites us."-

As much as you wished Adam wasn't in the band, he is, and he sure pushed the band in the early days, managing the band, getting gigs, meetings with the right people, a bad manager can ruin a good band.


------------------------


Larry built the plane, Adam got it off the tarmac, Bono and Edge kept in flight, and now they all keep it going. so :p

Yes those are bad puns, U2, airplane.
 
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"I think women are the stronger sex. I don't think it's necessarily putting women on a pedestal, but I think it's acknowledging that women are stronger and you need their support and companionship to help you realise your potential as a man."
Click to expand...

God, I'm glad one man in the world understands this! :lol:
 
thrillme said:
Here's the full article.

http://www.atu2.com/news/article.src?ID=3615

You took some things out of context like this--

"I suppose if people want to shower you with honors, the only reasonable thing to do is accept them," says Clayton.

You didn't mention that the article was writing about U2 getting inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame (well they're eligible next year, but they're shoe-in to get it.) This was Adam's respone to that.

You say you had high respect for Adam then you read this, em, from reading your other posts about Adam, that doesn't seem true at all.

Adam simply understands how it works in the music business, nowadays, he's a realist, that's all.

Wasn't it Larry who said they should actually make a pop album? And that they were competing against Britney Spears and Backstreet Boys?

Why were Bono and Edge at that Apple Convention for the U2-ipods.

Bono--"I can't stand rock stars that are like, 'I didn't want to become famous, I just wanted to make music.' "Become a potter! there must be something of the exhibitionist inside."

They all want to be the best band in the world, and you can't do that if people don't hear your music.

That's why a good song will have a "hook," it brings you in.

Singles are those "hooks" for an album.

Something you missed from the article--

"Clayton, 44, and Mullen Jr., 43, focused on each track and then voted decisively that the songs were simply not good enough. "When it comes to signing off on a project," says Clayton, "you ask questions like, 'Have we got a first single to open the campaign?' Frankly, we were missing more than just a first single." Says Mullen Jr.: "It was awkward, but it had to be said."

Larry says it had to be said, he agreed.

Adam is the only one in the band, who once named "October" as his favourite U2 album. October! Even some fans don't care for that one much. There's some deep stuff on October if you look for it.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Adam says things that are lot deeper than things most of the men I know say.

"Making love involves two people, having sex only involves one."

"In a live situation, there's really no such thing as perfection...
You can't deal in perfection. You can only deal in emotion."

"I think women are the stronger sex. I don't think it's necessarily putting women on a pedestal, but I think it's acknowledging that women are stronger and you need their support and companionship to help you realise your potential as a man."

Not to mention he's appreciative of the fans.

"We've got great fans. They follow us through all sorts of changes, and in many ways they encourage us to continue pursuing music that excites us."-

As much as you wished Adam wasn't in the band, he is, and he sure pushed the band in the early days, managing the band, getting gigs, meetings with the right people, a bad manager can ruin a good band.


------------------------


Larry built the plane, Adam got it off the tarmac, Bono and Edge kept in flight, and now they all keep it going. so :p

Yes those are bad puns, U2, airplane.
Click to expand...

Well-written and well said about Clayton. Now, let me add a few observations.

That is very telling that Clayton's favorite album is October. I guess he feels U2 have not progressed since then. Or perhaps he feels his bass-playing was best there (which means he hasn't improved in the past 20 years). But everyone loves JT, ATYCLB, and AB. So why does Clayton like October? I guess he has eccentric musical tastes and is therefore not a good judge of song charcter.

Clayton gives a backhanded compliment to women in that statement. While he is saying that they are "stronger" he just reduces them to being merely "support and companionship" to men. He does not acknowledge the capability of a woman to flourish in an independent style outside of the support-role to men.

Clayton's quotes about their fans being "great" because they "follow" and "encourage" U2 is just a generic statement that can be said about fans of any other celebrity who follow and encourage their idols. I prefer Bono's comments that their audience is very intelligent. I don't think Clayton mentioned anywhere that he finds his fans intelligent. By saying that the fans simply follow their changes, Clayton implies that their fans just blindly go with the flow without exercising their intelligence.

Also, it is a great tribute to call Clayton a good manager and gig-bookie. But above all, he isn't a manager but a bassist. He is a member of U2. And based on the TIME article, he also seems to be the musical conscience who wants an album full of hits, hooks, and singles. Something his "following" and "encouraging" fans would love very much.

Cheers,

J
 
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