Assassination of the Sun - It's the Communist Sun God Worshippers!

[Irishteen]

When I think of it, I think of either young girls suffering female circumcision OR older women choosing the mutilate themselves. And I think the two have to be treated very differently, and yes the first shouldn't take place. Ever. The second circumstance is more about freedom and 'right to do what you like with your body for whatever reason' etc..

But the majority of women who undergo it are between four and twelve

And the majority of the operations are carried out "without anaesthetic often using unsterilised implements such as scissors, razor blades or broken glass"

That's why I think there's such a big push to get rid of it

 

[pgv]

nothing.
This Is Why I Avoid These Discussions.

So Carry On, I'll Be Over There...

 

[Babydoll]

And during the process, the girl who was a 12 year old kid, was held down by 3 other women.

 

[Purplereign]

Good point. We had to watch a video about it too. yikes

It's all done to repress female sexuality as apparently, without being circumsized, they're raving nymphomaniacs.... We also saw a woman trying to DELIVER A BABY with the full circumsicion done.

I remember seeing an african model on Oprah (name escapes) discussing this aspect of her culture and it truly is a horrifying practice - and whilst I agree that the westernization of cultures across the globe is not necessarily a positive this kind of barbaric practice reallly needs to be stopped :shudder:

 

[Irishteen]

There probably is some merit in that because I'm assuming he has the same cultural values as his wife . . . not sure how it could be translated legally though . . . good point - BD was this discussed at all in your class?

If the guy is from the same culture than really he (in)directly caused this. I'm not sure of the legal stuff either but there should be some charge brought against him

 

[waynetravis]

So I did have a point?! Yay!

*puts on chuffty badge*

 

[pgv]

But the majority of women who undergo it are between four and twelve

And the majority of the operations are carried out "without anaesthetic often using unsterilised implements such as scissors, razor blades or broken glass"

That's why I think there's such a big push to get rid of it

How would they go about getting rid of it? Implement some sort of law? No, they'd have to change people's perspectives on women and freedom... and that's arguably just westernization, isn't it?
There's a real fine line, and I don't know how they'd stop it. It'd be better if there was no need to, if people didn't think women SHOULD have it done whatsoever.

 

[Irishteen]

I remember seeing an african model on Oprah (name escapes) discussing this aspect of her culture and it truly is a horrifying practice - and whilst I agree that the westernization of cultures across the globe is not necessarily a positive this kind of barbaric practice reallly needs to be stopped :shudder:

There's a difference between Westernising and what should be done. Honestly we need to just give basic unbiased human rights across the world and this includes western countries.

 

[Purplereign]

If the guy is from the same culture than really he (in)directly caused this. I'm not sure of the legal stuff either but there should be some charge brought against him

I am inclined to agree with you - although, wondering if he would he be charged in his country? Probably not - don't know a lot about japanese cultures but seems they are fairly well skewed to the patriachal model?

 

[pgv]

There's a difference between Westernising and what should be done. Honestly we need to just give basic unbiased human rights across the world and this includes western countries.

And that's why Amnesty International is soo important

 

[Irishteen]

How would they go about getting rid of it? Implement some sort of law? No, they'd have to change people's perspectives on women and freedom... and that's arguably just westernization, isn't it?
There's a real fine line, and I don't know how they'd stop it. It'd be better if there was no need to, if people didn't think women SHOULD have it done whatsoever.

There's a direct link between uneducated women and the number of women who have their daughters undergo FGM. So obviously there are ways to bring it down through simple things should as education;

 

[Babydoll]

But the majority of women who undergo it are between four and twelve

And the majority of the operations are carried out "without anaesthetic often using unsterilised implements such as scissors, razor blades or broken glass"

That's why I think there's such a big push to get rid of it

Yep. We saw all this. And as I said, it's a kid who's held down by other women. It also causes plenty of infections and as for delivering a baby, the pain and complications are often so great the woman and/or baby dies.

 

[Irishteen]

I am inclined to agree with you - although, wondering if he would he be charged in his country? Probably not - don't know a lot about japanese cultures but seems they are fairly well skewed to the patriachal model?

If it's the culture that caused this, then there could be a law saying he deserves no punishment.

I'm curious as to where this woman is from, I'm assuming a traditional rural area where culture and older values have a lot more weight than normal

 

[Purplereign]

There's a difference between Westernising and what should be done. Honestly we need to just give basic unbiased human rights across the world and this includes western countries.

I agree with you 100% - but don't you see thats where the whole cultural thing still rears its head - because it has gone on for hundreds of years, and whilst attitudes are slowly changing as populations become more educated, it is seen as normal . . . why else would 3 or 4 other women hold a female child down and do that . . . because it is what was done to them - that is the cycle that needs to be broken so that the human rights these people so desperately deserve and need can be attained

 

[pgv]

There's a direct link between uneducated women and the number of women who have their daughters undergo FGM. So obviously there are ways to bring it down through simple things should as education;

Education yes, but are these people going to want to have Western education thrust upon them?

 

[Screwtape2]

There's a direct link between uneducated women and the number of women who have their daughters undergo FGM. So obviously there are ways to bring it down through simple things should as education;

Education = choice.

 

[Purplereign]

If it's the culture that caused this, then there could be a law saying he deserves no punishment.

I'm curious as to where this woman is from, I'm assuming a traditional rural area where culture and older values have a lot more weight than normal

I'm curious to but I think you'd be suprised - she could very well be an educated woman - from the little I know about Japanese cultures, pride and saving face is what its really all about and why there is such a high incidence of suicide amongst very well educated successful people - its such a shame.

 

[Babydoll]

But what education is to us, would not be education to them. The western idea of education is prolly different, although the basic maths, reading and all is evident everywhere.

 

[Screwtape2]

But what education is to us, would not be education to them. The western idea of education is prolly different, although the basic maths, reading and all is evident everywhere.

Educate them with science from all around the world so it wouldn't be a western education it'd be a global one. Teach them about all the regions of the world so that they may choose how they want to live. Knowledge equals power.

 

[Purplereign]

But what education is to us, would not be education to them. The western idea of education is prolly different, although the basic maths, reading and all is evident everywhere.

and therein lies the rub but as Irishteen (?) mentioned earlier as more women become educated surely the incidence of things like this will begin to diminish :fingerscrossed:

 

[Irishteen]

I'm curious to but I think you'd be suprised - she could very well be an educated woman - from the little I know about Japanese cultures, pride and saving face is what its really all about and why there is such a high incidence of suicide amongst very well educated successful people - its such a shame.

You're right but simply being told she's Japanese doesn't really shed much light on the case, and where she's from could answer the question of whether or not it's safe to send her back home.

Education yes, but are these people going to want to have Western education thrust upon them?

I don't even want a Western education, I simply want facts taught to them. You'd think in a culture where a woman's main purpose is to give birth, they would not engage in practises that can cause infertility and birth problems for the child? It just seems strange to me...not that I'm agreeing with any of this but I simply think that if women became more aware of the risk it can cause they might be more open to alternatives, even if their reason for it is based on cultural values I'm not in favour of

 

[Babydoll]

I don't even want a Western education, I simply want facts taught to them. You'd think in a culture where a woman's main purpose is to give birth, they would not engage in practises that can cause infertility and birth problems for the child? It just seems strange to me...

Did you see the stuff I mentioned? Like the birth defects, high death ratios, extreme pain?

 

[Irishteen]

Did you see the stuff I mentioned? Like the birth defects, high death ratios, extreme pain?

Yeah I did, which is why it seems incredibly strange for it to be a cultural practise

Surely in that culture it's much more beneficial in the long run for women to give birth to healthier children?

 

[pgv]

You're right but simply being told she's Japanese doesn't really shed much light on the case, and where she's from could answer the question of whether or not it's safe to send her back home.



I don't even want a Western education, I simply want facts taught to them. You'd think in a culture where a woman's main purpose is to give birth, they would not engage in practises that can cause infertility and birth problems for the child? It just seems strange to me...

The woman being a chaste, powerless wife obviously means more to them doesn't it? I've read somewhere that the thinking behind it is, with mutilated genitalia women enjoy sex less and are therefore less likely to sleep around and be unfaithful. And it seems this is a MAJOR worry for a lot of men, and why? Why must these men only marry someone who has been mutilated?

The thinking goes too deep for me to ever understand.

 

[Purplereign]

You're right but simply being told she's Japanese doesn't really shed much light on the case, and where she's from could answer the question of whether or not it's safe to send her back home.

Yeah, you're right - more info would be needed but knowing what country someone is from does help with cultural perspective at least

 

[Babydoll]

The woman being a chaste, powerless wife obviously means more to them doesn't it? I've read somewhere that the thinking behind it is, with mutilated genitalia women enjoy sex less and are therefore less likely to sleep around and be unfaithful. And it seems this is a MAJOR worry for a lot of men, and why? Why must these men only marry someone who has been mutilated?

The thinking goes too deep for me to ever understand.

And that is EXACTLY what we discussed - the main purpose of FGM is to reduce pleasure for women, and believe me, when you see the video or even pics, it will put you off sex forever. But it was intially men who suggested this practice become common for everyone, after they saw how their wives had reduced pleaure. And from there onwards, it was women who were all for it. They'd rather be mutilated and chaste, than raving nymphos.

 

[pgv]

And that is EXACTLY what we discussed - the main purpose of FGM is to reduce pleasure for women, and believe me, when you see the video or even pics, it will put you off sex forever. But it was intially men who suggested this practice become common for everyone, after they saw how their wives had reduced pleaure. And from there onwards, it was women who were all for it. They'd rather be mutilated and chaste, than raving nymphos.

I just see that as a form of sadism - who would want to inflict that sort of pain on the wife they supposedly love? Why would they WANT their wife to be in horrendous pain every time they had sex? It's sadism, right, and probably harks back to whole idea that women should be punished. That basic idea at the centre of most chauvinism and that which seemingly has no cause whatsoever.

 

[Irishteen]

The woman being a chaste, powerless wife obviously means more to them doesn't it? I've read somewhere that the thinking behind it is, with mutilated genitalia women enjoy sex less and are therefore less likely to sleep around and be unfaithful. And it seems this is a MAJOR worry for a lot of men, and why? Why must these men only marry someone who has been mutilated?

The thinking goes too deep for me to ever understand.

all this makes me think is how screwed up the world really is...

Yeah, you're right - more info would be needed but knowing what country someone is from does help with cultural perspective at least

But when countries have such a large divide of culture both modern and traditional, it becomes so much harder to decide whether or not send her back. Especially when you're not sure if sending her back will just lead to her finishing the job...

 

[pgv]

all this makes me think is how screwed up the world really is...

Yeah, me too. I appreciate other cultures and think they're to be cherished, but at the same time - I just can't understand things like that. I don't think it's an indicator of that culture being wrong, or bad, just... uneducated perhaps?

 

[Purplereign]

all this makes me think is how screwed up the world really is...



But when countries have such a large divide of culture both modern and traditional, it becomes so much harder to decide whether or not send her back. Especially when you're not sure if sending her back will just lead to her finishing the job...

Thats true - if she gets sent back and then does finish the job off is the country who sent her back in some way responsible . . . another pandoras box is opened!