Are U2 intentionally sandbagging in this album?

[jick]

I get the feeling that U2 are intentionally sandbagging in this album. For those who don't know what sandbagging means, its a term used for those who like to hide their talents or pretend to be much less talented than they really are.

Vertigo is too short.

Miracle Drug starts out too quietly.

SYCMIOYO is too slow.

LAPOE takes too long before it gets rocking.

COBL doesn't have drums that bite.

ABOY has a guitar solo, but no extended guitar solo.

Original Of The Species seems to be missing something.

I am pretty sure these these songs will probably be played live. So why is Mullen's drum parts too low in the mix? Despite their brilliance, why do the songs seem to lack the extra punch?

I think this is one big grand conspiracy by U2. To make THE album of their lives, and yet not make it up to their full potential so that there will still be room for improvement live.

If U2 would have laid down all the cards of the table in the album versions, they won't keep their reputation as a great live band anymore as they will be failure in improving on their album versions. So I guess U2 intentionally hid some of their cards so they could end up with a few tricks up their sleeve live.

Does anyone else think U2 was intentionally sandbagging with this album?

Nevertheless, I think it is a tribute to the greatness of U2 to be able to sandbag with this album and still come up with the best album released in this century perhaps.

I'd like your thoughts on this.

Cheers,

J

 

[bedouin fire]

no sandbagging (if i got right what is that). improvement live comes naturally.

 

[Aardvark747]

Lets hope ur right about that last bit Jick!

 

[jick]

Everyone says this album lacks some rock or some bite to it. But I think they should just wait for it to show up live first. I seriously think U2 were sandbagging on this album.

Cheers,

J

 

[coach]

Nevertheless, I think it is a tribute to the greatness of U2 to be able to sandbag with this album and still come up with the best album released in this century perhaps.

I'd like your thoughts on this.

Cheers,

J

And this centrury is just beginning!!!! That didn't take too long now did it?

 

[UnforgettableLemon]

Isn't this essentially the same argument you made, or at least the same examples, in the thread about larry's drumming?

 

[Under Current]

Isn't this essentially the same argument you made, or at least the same examples, in the thread about larry's drumming?

No he never used the term sandbagging in that thread, pay attention.

Hey Jick, what exactly do you have against sandbaggers ? Did they do something to you when you were a child ?

 

[artdirector]

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

you're really really stretching now jick

Cheers,

H

 

[Jim]

it's better than teabagging.

 

[EXIT_TO_THE_NORTH]

i guess by your standards, in your world, perhaps they are. The reality is that they made the album they wanted to make. Appreciate it for what it is — a classic. We all know it takes time to realize greatness … and this album will be no different imo. We haven't even heard the REAL album yet, with the real mix, sound, etc.
Seems a bit pre-mature.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

it's better than teabagging.

not neccesarily

 

[jick]

Isn't this essentially the same argument you made, or at least the same examples, in the thread about larry's drumming?

The last thread, I thought Larry was underworked by Lillywhite. Now, upon further analysis, I think it could have been a band consensus to make the album sound low-key so that it will be a marked improvement live.

And I'm not just talking about Larry's drumming, but also the song structures in general and even Edge's guitars.

Cheers,

J

 

[chrissybaby]

although it pains me to agree with you Jick i do to a certain extent. How come on all their albums all of a sudden within a matter of months they are playing much much better versions live. there is an element of truth that a lot of this is natural but they must have live arrangements worked out at around the same time as recording in certain instances. or does the edge just have an amazing flash of inspiration prior to all first dates?
look at the ending of beautiful day "the goal is soul", the "hallelujahs" at the end of walk on in the last tour. look at the guitar solo at the end of love is blindness on zoo tv
look at the solo in mysterious ways on zoo tv, utterly glorious!!!
these arent just little alterations brought about by the inspiration of playing live night after night, they are newly written and composed elements to songs - are we to believe that these arent conceived at the time of recording?

If jick that is what you mean by sandbagging, then yes to a certain extent i do agree with you, i just think that they let themselves "go" more off record, and yes i think it is intentionally held back in the studio.

 

[jick]

I apologize to those who don't understand sandbagging. It is actually a golf term. I doubt there are any golfers in this forum.

Cheers,

J

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

oh i get it... it's just ironic that once again you're putting a negative spin on something, even though you're attempting to deny that that's what you're doing.

Cheers,

H

 

[namkcuR]

Dude, jick, are you a U2 fan or not? All you ever do is post negative things about the band. But the weird thing is...everything you write, while it's all negative, is too constructive and well-written to be a troll, and you have WAY too many posts to be a troll, so I have no doubt you're a legit member. But man, can't you ever just post a thread that says 'this album is fucking great' and let that be that?

 

[kellyahern]

oh i get it... it's just ironic that once again you're putting a negative spin on something, even though you're attempting to deny that that's what you're doing.

Cheers,

H

jick, the passive-agressive troll

 

[ZeroDude]

the album is fucking great, we need an anti-jick

 

[doctorwho]

The term "sandbagging" is also used in bowling. It means to purposely underperform at something such that it later works to your advantage. In bowling and golf, often a handicap is provided. By doing worse than you are, you establish a faux handicap. This will eventually benefit you once you return to your "normal" playing status. Basically, it's cheating.

Are U2 sandbagging? Gosh no!

This album is very full of life. But if you feel something is "missing" this could be due to several reasons:

• this feeling just relays how YOU feel, not others;
• we don't have the actual album - just ripped .mp3's;
• we hjaven't heard the songs live.

U2 are famous for their live performances. The comments you make about HTDAAB can be said about every album. Only in concert do songs like "I Will Follow", "Sunday Bloody Sunday", "With or Without You", "Bullet the Blue Sky", "Exit", "Gone", "Mysterious Ways", "Until the End of the World", "One", "Walk On", etc., come to life. Many of the songs I listed above have added verses or instrumental sections extending the song and making it that much better. Who doesn't love the extra "we'll shine like summer stars" line at the end of "With or Without You"? Who doesn't enjoy the "do you hear my knocking, Lord?" at the end of "One"? "Until the End of the World" is great on AB, but WOW it comes to life in concert.
The R&H version of "Sunday Bloody Sunday" is my favorite - not because of Bono's speech, but because of the slow acoustic intro and the extended ending.

So in that vain, U2 must be holding back (or sandbagging) since "Boy". And we all know that isn't true.

The real answer is something that Bono has said many times - these songs find their real life in concert. And it could be for some of the reasons mentioned here, namely, that U2 really let themselves go. But to say that they are sandbagging is highly erroneous!

 

[ZeroDude]

In the words of Bono "This really Fucking Amazing" ahould do justice to this thread.

 

[U2ME3]

Who's High Pitch?

This is Kelly Clarkson.

 

[jick]

So in that vain, U2 must be holding back (or sandbagging) since "Boy". And we all know that isn't true.

The real answer is something that Bono has said many times - these songs find their real life in concert. And it could be for some of the reasons mentioned here, namely, that U2 really let themselves go. But to say that they are sandbagging is highly erroneous!

I tend to believe that he doesn't anymore "find" the songs. Usually, they decide on the song arrangement even during the rehearsals for the first night first show. So the songs don't need to find anything. I reckon that even before they approve the final mix of the song for the album version, they already have an idea of how they will improve on it live! They hardly put their "live mix to the album. So in a sense, yes - they've been sandbagging all this time. Even the album versoin of Bad didn't have the sequencer!

Cheers,

J

 

[MSU2mike]

It's absurd to think that U2 has ever intentionally sandbagged on an album.

However, it's quite clear that Jick never sandbags his propensity to be a tool.

Do you know what "propensity" means, Jick? It means "a tendency" or "an inclination to."

 

[grbounds]

Jick read the new U2 article in Time Magazine, that should erase any ideas you have about the band sandbagging.

 

[ADecentMelody]

I don't think U2 purposely sandbags. There is a certain "quiet" beauty in the arrangement of studio songs. There are usually layers of sound that the band, along with the producer(s), are going for. Once the band goes live, they cannot reproduce all of those sounds and so has to change the arrangements, pick backbone of the song, if you will.

That's where U2 is unique. Bono, at each rehearsal/soundcheck, continues to grow these songs. When something favorably new (lyrics, solos, etc.) comes out of these rehearsals/soundchecks, they are added to the live experience. And sometimes, what may seem absent during studio recordings are actually there beneath the layers of sound.

For example, the 4-part guitar solo at the end of the live version of Love is Blindness is really present in studio version. It's just not as highlighted as when done live, where there are no other layers of guitar to drown it.

As far as lyrics, just listen to the live Apple performance of OotS. Bono's already outlined the makings of new lines towards the end of the performance. The lyrics aren't clear because he's "scat" singing, but you can tell there will be lyrics there in the future once he figures it out.

Arrangements for live versions are usually tweaked a bit to cater to the sonic landscape of an auditorium/arena.

 

[strannix]

You know, jick, I can pick out the threads you start just by their titles. I think you're in a bit of a rut, man.

I don't think this sandbagging idea makes much sense. It's not exactly putting their best foot forward, you know? Far more people will hear the album than see them live (one hopes).

Besides, as has been noted, there's precedent. Look at the historical record. For example, I'd point out the rerecorded POP songs of the "Best of 1990-2000" disc. All three are much closer to their live incarnation than the studio incarnantion - are we to believe that they intentionally put an inferior version on the album, only to rerecord them later? I doubt it. Much more likely is that they figured out a better arrangement later.

Or, look at the Single version of "Walk On". Again, much closer to the live version. Did they intentionally put an inferior version on the album only to put the real one out on single? Strains credibility, IMO.

Why do you figure the new album is any different?

 

[EXIT_TO_THE_NORTH]

sandbagging is a term used in the context of betting. Primarily when playing pool, a person will play badly on purpose to lure in other players that will want to bet big money. Then the sandbagger plays his game and takes home the money. THIS is sandbagging.

 

[UnforgettableLemon]

I agree with Strannix, at least about Walk On. (The Pop remixes on the Best of didn't do much for me, except for Gone). But yeah, Walk On went through serious revision through the tour and after 9/11, very different to listen to the opening night and closing night versions, or the tribute to heroes version.

 

[doctorwho]

I tend to believe that he doesn't anymore "find" the songs. Usually, they decide on the song arrangement even during the rehearsals for the first night first show. So the songs don't need to find anything. I reckon that even before they approve the final mix of the song for the album version, they already have an idea of how they will improve on it live! They hardly put their "live mix to the album. So in a sense, yes - they've been sandbagging all this time. Even the album versoin of Bad didn't have the sequencer!

Cheers,

J

Well, if you feel U2 have indeed been sandbagging since Day 1, then you should write your thread to state as such. You make it sound as if U2 just recently started making their live performances stand out.

Given how U2 are famous for their live songs, and given how Bono often improvises (sometimes due to a memory lapse, sometimes intentional), I think it's really a matter of the songs "coming to life" once they are rehearsed for an audience. It's a lot different playing as a band in front of an audience vs. recording the vocals on one track, the guitars on several tracks, drums on yet another and mixing.