Songs of _________________; New album discussion #7

[lightmyway91]

One of my friends brought up a good point. Every time he plugged his phone in his car, “The Miracle” started playing. This was before Apple Music launched, so your phone would auto play the first music that was downloaded to your device.

My friend is not a U2 fan whatsoever and this turned him off to them even more.

But yeah, people were also over dramatic about it.

I’m sure there would have been a way to skip the songs or not have that downloaded material as part of any shuffle, they were able to delete very soon after as well so he has this problem for what a matter of days? I’ve had an iPhone for quite a number of years now and never experienced this issue. Albeit I wouldn’t be wanting to skip u2 stuff but I never came across a time where the miracle was the first thing that kept playing in my car.

 

[Gonna Run 2 U]

California would auto play on friends iTunes and that drove them nuts (babanababa ouuhhh hooo woo)

 

[Hollow Island]

The more I read this the more I'm convinced that this is absolutely what they have planned for Vegas.

Which, honestly... it fits to have a Zoo Redo in the most technologically advanced concert venue ever created. Even bringing MacPhisto back, in a Vegas residency, would be a lovely bit of irony.

The Achtung thing is probably virtual. It's unlikely they'd endure the expense of building a set and go through the trouble of learning a setlist that would only be used a handful of times, especially since they'll be doing a regular tour around that time.

 

[DeVaul]

The Achtung thing is probably virtual. It's unlikely they'd endure the expense of building a set and go through the trouble of learning a setlist that would only be used a handful of times, especially since they'll be doing a regular tour around that time.

There’s no set to build. It’s like a 3/4 dome of hi-res screen. They’d sell a ton of tickets and if the timing holds, it would be months ahead of the new album tour

 

[lightmyway91]

The Achtung thing is probably virtual. It's unlikely they'd endure the expense of building a set and go through the trouble of learning a setlist that would only be used a handful of times, especially since they'll be doing a regular tour around that time.

They won’t be doing a regular tour by this time next year. The tour is expected to be 2024 with the album only released late next year. Vegas now seems more and more likely to happen. Rehearsals to begin in the summer with the shows starting in the fall. Saturday and Sundays, a dozen shows, so I’m assuming 6 weeks unless it’s not consecutive weekends. Still hasn’t been linked to AB specifically so perhaps these vegas shows and AB are still seperate but it does seem very possible the 2 are linked now. I’m actually pretty gutted at the prospect of missing out my favourite band play my favourite album live because unless I come into money between now and then I won’t be going to vegas. I hope at the very least they would release it or even do a live stream for one of the nights. There is still the possibility it’s more of a tour supporting what they’re doing with these reworked songs, if Bono hadn’t mentioned AB that would have been more like my guess.

 

[Hollow Island]

There’s no set to build. It’s like a 3/4 dome of hi-res screen. They’d sell a ton of tickets and if the timing holds, it would be months ahead of the new album tour

Months that they would spend working on and rehearsing the world tour.

U2 wouldn't just rely on a screen in the venue. They'd build their own thing, as they always do. And if it's tied into Achtung Baby it's going to be a Zoo TV thing. They would need to do a lot of work for that.

They also wouldn't make such an event exclusive to one location, thereby excluding the vast majority of their fanbase.

My money is on an online event of some sort.

 

[DeVaul]

Months that they would spend working on and rehearsing the world tour.

If it’s over by Jan they’d still have 5-6 months (or more) to rehearse for the world tour.

U2 wouldn't just rely on a screen in the venue. They'd build their own thing, as they always do. And if it's tied into Achtung Baby it's going to be a Zoo TV thing. They would need to do a lot of work for that.

If they’re the first ones to play the building, it wouldn’t matter. They’d immediately dwarf anyone else’s production. Not sure if you’re understanding the scale - they measure the total screen real estate in acres. Plural.

They also wouldn't make such an event exclusive to one location, thereby excluding the vast majority of their fanbase.

People have flown into Vegas for limited engagements by top-tier artists before. Relatedly, I+E ran a very limited routing, relying on residencies in top cities. The fanbase travelled.

 

[lazarus]

... he literally says it was his idea and had to talk Tim Apple into it.

Perhaps he didn't know it would be hard to delete, but he specifically says he wanted people who wouldn't otherwise listen to them to give it a chance

I think that’s the key detail that we may never know. If U2/Bono didn’t realize that the album was impossible to delete, then that’s both an issue with planning, communication, and execution on Apple’s and, whether or not Bono had to convince Tim Cook.

I think the bigger story here is that it’s good to see Bono owning up to it.

Here's the thing: I'm a U2 fan and I had to go to my iTunes account and manually download it. I don't know what the percentage was of people who had automatic downloads toggled, but I feel like it was a minority as opposed to a majority.

In short, you seem to be claiming that Bono wanted it to show up on people's actual devices unsolicited, and knew that would happen. And the problem with that hypothesis is, for most people, it didn't. They still had to manually bring it from their account library onto their computer/iPhone/iPad. So if that was his nefarious plan, it didn't work in the all-encompassing way he supposedly intended. And Apple would have explained in advance that not everyone would automatically receive it, because they know how the software operates.

Like I said, until Bono actually specifies the automatic downloads feature, I'm not convinced he understood exactly what was going to happen. Saying that he wanted people who wouldn't ordinarily check out their music to do so doesn't necessarily mean invading their devices. Having it show up in their iTunes account library also means the same thing--people who don't ordinarily buy or listen to their music could download it for free, as many did.

 

[DeVaul]

I believe he wanted it to go to everyone’s library but didn’t understand that for some people that would mean it would *automatically play* whenever they opened the app/connected their phone to their car via Bluetooth.

 

[The John Tree]

I think this wouldn’t be such an issue if they’d simply made it easy to delete. It wasn’t, so it felt like people were *stuck* with a U2 album. Deleting it required a google search and following steps.

For what it’s worth, I have a friend who’s not a U2 fan at all. I was in the car with him the other day and he was shuffling through and Cedarwood Road came on. He’d never deleted the album. “I don’t like U2 but this one kicks ass.” So I think Bono’s idea wasn’t so bad - the execution was awful.

 

[lazarus]

But the "library" was something both in the cloud and on your computer/portable devices. Some people had those synced at all times, many didn't.

U2 songs playing right when people turned stuff on was an insult to injury, so to speak. The main issue was the album showing up on people's hardware in the first place.

The technical aspect is clearly still confusing 7 years later, so I remain unconvinced that everyone involved in this decision on the U2 end understood the flowchart on all of this (well, maybe Edge did), from the downloading to the auto=play.

 

[mikal]

But the "library" was something both in the cloud and on your computer/portable devices. Some people had those synced at all times, many didn't.

U2 songs playing right when people turned stuff on was an insult to injury, so to speak. The main issue was the album showing up on people's hardware in the first place.

The technical aspect is clearly still confusing 7 years later, so I remain unconvinced that everyone involved in this decision on the U2 end understood the flowchart on all of this (well, maybe Edge did), from the downloading to the auto=play.

Oh I guarantee they didn’t. I’ma pretty tech savvy person and understand the Apple software ins and outs better than most people. I didn’t even know that you couldn’t delete your downloaded purchases until this debacle.

 

[womanfish]

There's certainly been a lot said on this topic, and I think we can all agree that an accept or decline pop up would have been the most simple and easy thing to avoid the mess that followed.

But I do have one other take on this that hadn't occurred to me before reading Bono's comments. I think that even without the accept/decline - Tim Apple could have presented this on stage at the event in a way that would have completely inoculated it.

Instead of having Bono do the whole "how can we get this out to half a billion people in 5 seconds... thing and having it be Bono focused with the little pre-rehearsed back and forth, Tim could have said something like - Because we've had a long and successful relationship with this band, and we value our customers long and faithful relationship with us, we wanted to try something new today. As a gift to our itunes users, we are going to be giving this amazing new album from U2 to you for free. The band has been compensated of course, because we are a company that is working to make sure musicians get paid for their art. So right now, we are going to send this out for free to all itunes users as a show of appreciation to you.

People would have been ok with this. The band would have been separated from the actual placing of the album on itunes.
They wouldn't go ultra-hyperbolic admonishing Apple, and giving them shit, they are loyal Apple customers and this would be nothing to the average user, and a cool thing for fans and semi-fans of the band. It was only fun to freak out on U2 because people love to knock celebrities off their pedestals.

Anyway, I also have seen a lot of comments on YouTube that younger people actually discovered the band through this, and found some songs they really loved, and searched out more stuff from the band. So in the end, it did have some success, but not nearly enough to outweigh the negative.

P.s. I say this about the Apple event, because I watched it, and even though Bono mentioned something about getting paid for it, I still came away with the impression that U2 was giving away their album for free through Apple. From the reaction, I believe 99% of everyone else thought this too.

 

[JamietheEdgefan]

How cool would it be if they combined the Las Vegas Sphere performances with announcement/debut of the next album?

The sphere dates are meant to be around September/October, which would align nicely with an album announcement and lead single for a November album.

Imagine if they did a live broadcast of one of the Sphere shows, and used that to debut the lead single (playing it live and releasing the studio version simultaneously) and announce the next album?

It could be a pretty cool way to shine a spotlight on new music: showcasing it in the context of all the classic songs and the magic of their live experience that made the band so successful in the first place.

The buzz of thousands of cheering fans, the magic of U2's live sound, the big intros and epic arrangements they put together onstage, the state of the art arena, and then: "we have a new album called x out in November, here's the first single".

At the very least it would be so much more fun than debuting a single in front of Tim Cook and a small crowd of tech journalists.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Months that they would spend working on and rehearsing the world tour.



U2 wouldn't just rely on a screen in the venue. They'd build their own thing, as they always do. And if it's tied into Achtung Baby it's going to be a Zoo TV thing. They would need to do a lot of work for that.



They also wouldn't make such an event exclusive to one location, thereby excluding the vast majority of their fanbase.



My money is on an online event of some sort.

https://youtu.be/YHYGX_MPGtw

It's already fairly well known that they're the opening act at MSG Sphere.

It's possible it isn't Achtung Baby related, but either way - this very much is a venue where you do not bring in your own elaborate screens. There's no need - the entire venue is as advanced a screen ever created.

So no, they wouldn't design their own thing for this venue. And the venue has already completed a test site that they're using to work on whatever is going in there. So if U2 is first, work has already begun and has been ongoing for some time.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/b...g-sphere-studios-opens-in-burbank-1235148530/


I get the feeling that a lot of people think MSG Sphere is just a spherical shaped big ass regular old concert hall. It's not. It's the most technologically advanced concert venue ever created and is being heralded as a true game changer for live entertainment.

 

[Hollow Island]

https://youtu.be/YHYGX_MPGtw

It's already fairly well known that they're the opening act at MSG Sphere.

It's possible it isn't Achtung Baby related, but either way - this very much is a venue where you do not bring in your own elaborate screens. There's no need - the entire venue is as advanced a screen ever created.

So no, they wouldn't design their own thing for this venue. And the venue has already completed a test site that they're using to work on whatever is going in there. So if U2 is first, work has already begun and has been ongoing for some time.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/b...g-sphere-studios-opens-in-burbank-1235148530/

There would be more to an Achtung/Zoo presentation than screens.

Whatever they do there will probably be related to the new album/tour.

 

[lightmyway91]

I think this wouldn’t be such an issue if they’d simply made it easy to delete. It wasn’t, so it felt like people were *stuck* with a U2 album. Deleting it required a google search and following steps.

For what it’s worth, I have a friend who’s not a U2 fan at all. I was in the car with him the other day and he was shuffling through and Cedarwood Road came on. He’d never deleted the album. “I don’t like U2 but this one kicks ass.” So I think Bono’s idea wasn’t so bad - the execution was awful.

I think you could argue the execution was spot on based on that conversation with your friend. If he doesn’t like u2 then he probably wouldn’t have listened to the song under any other circumstances than it being forced onto his iPhone. As much as the negative criticism is stronger (and ridiculous) little stories like that prove it actually did work, that people who wouldn’t normally listen to u2 did listen to u2 and even enjoyed some of it. So I’d say job done. It’s not like they’re going to lose fans out of it, they maybe just didn’t gain as many as they’d like to and probably gave the haters an easy excuse to express their hate. As I said it shows what sort of place the world as it in 2014 that people need to get so worked up about something. If they’d spent as much time to figure out how to delete the album (which they were able to do less than a week later) then they would have solved the problem, it’s almost as if they weren’t bothered about solving the issue of removing the music and just wanted to have something to complain about.

 

[The John Tree]

I think you could argue the execution was spot on based on that conversation with your friend. If he doesn’t like u2 then he probably wouldn’t have listened to the song under any other circumstances than it being forced onto his iPhone. As much as the negative criticism is stronger (and ridiculous) little stories like that prove it actually did work, that people who wouldn’t normally listen to u2 did listen to u2 and even enjoyed some of it. So I’d say job done. It’s not like they’re going to lose fans out of it, they maybe just didn’t gain as many as they’d like to and probably gave the haters an easy excuse to express their hate. As I said it shows what sort of place the world as it in 2014 that people need to get so worked up about something. If they’d spent as much time to figure out how to delete the album (which they were able to do less than a week later) then they would have solved the problem, it’s almost as if they weren’t bothered about solving the issue of removing the music and just wanted to have something to complain about.

Except there were much more “get this fucking shit off my phone” people than there were those like my friend.

The negative PR was a big deal. It’s not just about “they didn’t lose any existing fans.” It’s that it was another reason to publicly label U2 as out of touch and uncool - which prevents new fans.

 

[lightmyway91]

Except there were much more “get this fucking shit off my phone” people than there were those like my friend.

The negative PR was a big deal. It’s not just about “they didn’t lose any existing fans.” It’s that it was another reason to publicly label U2 as out of touch and uncool - which prevents new fans.

If people aren’t going to become fans of the band because they aren’t ‘cool enough’ then I’m glad. I’d rather the band had as many fans as it does now and filters out all of the people who were so worked up about a free album that they wouldn’t bother giving the band a chance. I still think it was worth it to gain the people that did listen to and enjoy it that wouldn’t have under any other circumstances, might have been a tiny number but still worth it. I think in the grand scheme of things it really isn’t important anyway, only if fans let it feel important. I do think some fans get way too worried about how the band are perceived. Ultimately they’re a bunch of guys in their 60’s now, mid 50’s back in 2014. They were never going to be cool at the point in their careers in the music industry, the genre of music they make making it even less likely they’d be seen as particularly cool these days. The funny thing is look at all the other artists out there who haven’t had any such controversies and yet they still can’t sell as many concert tickets as u2.

 

[ascender_RS]

Oh well, sounds like the next album is going to be a while off yet although a lot can happen in a year if they knuckle down and don't over-think it. Maybe set themselves a proper, actual deadline to finish by. I'm just really looking forward to the audiobook now and hearing what SOS sounds like.

Something special for AB? Something online I guess? Or something in Vegas which would fit with all the other rumours although knowing how they work, that could be a massive distraction for them!

 

[Gonna Run 2 U]

Fuck it. Put the next album out for free again in everyone’s downloads. Double down Bono. Fuck them bitches.

 

[DeVaul]

a lot can happen in a year if they knuckle down and don't over-think it.

If they did that the record would already be done

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Eh em...

https://www.reviewjournal.com/enter...all-23-hints-to-achtung-baby-revival-2662922/

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Also... a webcast, by anyone's standards, let alone one as groundbreaking as U2 and ZooTV, is not, in any shape or form, something that can be described as "extraordinary."

 

[Gonna Run 2 U]

My U2 hater buddies have all shared with me links about Bono apologizing again about the iTunes release outlets picked up from the Irish times article. It’s a long standing joke for U2 haters and continues to be a PR nightmare for the band.

 

[DeVaul]

eh em...

https://www.reviewjournal.com/enter...all-23-hints-to-achtung-baby-revival-2662922/

 

[womanfish]

Except there were much more “get this fucking shit off my phone” people than there were those like my friend.

The negative PR was a big deal. It’s not just about “they didn’t lose any existing fans.” It’s that it was another reason to publicly label U2 as out of touch and uncool - which prevents new fans.

Exactly. After their meteoric rise in the 80’s, the sustained success through the 90’s, the award laden and continued strong radio play of the early and mid 2000’s to the highest grossing tour of all time in early 2010’s. They had cemented a legacy, with a dose of Bono annoyance always around.

Apple thing comes and they still have a strong core following, but for many they had been reduced to a joke about the iPhone.

It definitely was a big hit to their history. I will say that the book and SOS, seem like a pretty decent way to recover. We shall see!

 

[Irvine511]

Exactly. After their meteoric rise in the 80’s, the sustained success through the 90’s, the award laden and continued strong radio play of the early and mid 2000’s to the highest grossing tour of all time in early 2010’s. They had cemented a legacy, with a dose of Bono annoyance always around.

Apple thing comes and they still have a strong core following, but for many they had been reduced to a joke about the iPhone.

It definitely was a big hit to their history. I will say that the book and SOS, seem like a pretty decent way to recover. We shall see!

This is the correct take.

I’d add JT Tour was also big time damage control, and largely successful.

I also wonder if AB in Vegas with 12 dates will give them the opportunity to test out 12 new songs to see how the audience reacts.

 

[david]

New album to be called Achtung Adult.

 

[lightmyway91]

Exactly. After their meteoric rise in the 80’s, the sustained success through the 90’s, the award laden and continued strong radio play of the early and mid 2000’s to the highest grossing tour of all time in early 2010’s. They had cemented a legacy, with a dose of Bono annoyance always around.

Apple thing comes and they still have a strong core following, but for many they had been reduced to a joke about the iPhone.

It definitely was a big hit to their history. I will say that the book and SOS, seem like a pretty decent way to recover. We shall see!

All that only matters when you care about what others think of the band rather than simply enjoy them for what you love about them. If it was that big of a deal they wouldn’t have been playing to the crowds they have since then. If giving an album away for free is their biggest crime then I can happily accept that and if people don’t like it it’s their problem and a petty problem at that. The band will still be one of the biggest live acts next time a tour comes along. Will still have a #1 album in several countries.