*Rumor* - Larry to retire after E+I tour

[Headache in a Suitcase]

They would have needed to play 10 gigs at the forum to hit 200,000 tickets sold. That clearly was never the plan.

To bash them for something that they clearly weren't trying to do is just plain silly.

 

[trevgreg]

I truly believe that a shift occurred DURING the 360 tour, where U2 went from being a relevant act that could have current hits to a classic rock band that was just a greatest hits machine. Demand was still strong coming off the HTDAAB era. U2 could've released a kickass lead single and NLOTH would've been more of a hit. But instead they released Boots, people hated it, and the album sank like a stone, along with U2's relevance.

By the time the tour ended in 2011, they were only playing 3 "new" songs, and that was mainly just to suit themselves. At that point, they had completed the transition to a bona fide classic rock hits act.

I'm not sure any "shift" happened on that tour, other than the band not wanting to play the same songs two years after the tour originally started. Besides, we'd have been complaining if they were still playing the same set two years afterward with the same NLOTH tracks, even though we wouldn't be attending 95% of the shows in the end (so the usual stuff then).

On top of that, playing 3-4 "new" songs off of a 2.5 year old album is still higher than the amount some bands might play from a tour promoting a brand new album. The Achtung opening number was pretty great live anyway... so it worked out well for those particular shows.

Then when they went back on a new tour supporting a new album, they were playing 5-9 "new" songs regularly again in 2015. So pretty much back to normal for them.

 

[rennowba]

Well, on the previous tour they soldout 3 stadium shows in the Los Angeles area to a total of 202,969. The next tour they are forced to stop at 5 arena shows with 83,505 tickets sold. That's nearly a 60% drop in tickets sold from the previous tour. If U2 started just selling tickets based on their whole catalog with the new music not mattering at all on 360, then the band should have been able to post similar numbers on the SOI tour or at least sellout the 8 shows they had planned in hours.



Instead, we see what happened on Popmart. If U2 could sellout just based on their old material, the drop off seen with Popmart and the SOI tour would not of happened. These drop offs from the previous tour are not minor, they are huge!



But still good business compared to most other artist, just way off from where U2 had been on the previous tour.

There was a drop off because they played arenas. There was always going to be a drop off. If i&e was a stadium tour then the numbers would have been more or less the same depending if they played 360 or not

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

There was a drop off because they played arenas. There was always going to be a drop off. If i&e was a stadium tour then the numbers would have been more or less the same depending if they played 360 or not

Well... I can't go that far. There was bound to be a drop off, as everyone and anyone who wanted to see u2 got to see u2 on 360, and for cheap I'd they so desired.

They were smart to go back to arenas, as there was going to be a drop... just not as dramatic as Sting974 claims it to be, and not for the reasons he continues to push, either.

 

[The_acrobat]

Bottom line is, LN/U2 expect to make a certain amount of money every time they go onstage, be that in a 10,000 seat arena or a 100,000 seat stadium. Arena shows generate less income due to size, so to compensate they have a lower operating cost and higher ticket prices. Stadium shows make more money, and offer acres of cheap seats for casual fans. A stadium show costs much more money money to produce, but the large numbers of audience members still ensure that their asking price is met, less expenses.

U2 played to 202,000 on 360 in LA. Right, but if in 2009-2011, they played 10 shows at the LA forum, with the I&E pricing structure, they would not have sold 202,000 tickets. They probably would have several nights half full, and only the weekend shows would sell out:

 

[rennowba]

Well... I can't go that far. There was bound to be a drop off, as everyone and anyone who wanted to see u2 got to see u2 on 360, and for cheap I'd they so desired.

They were smart to go back to arenas, as there was going to be a drop... just not as dramatic as Sting974 claims it to be, and not for the reasons he continues to push, either.

Maybe there would have been a drop off, but I don't think it would have been a big one.I do get the point that a lot of casual fans ticked u2 off their list after 360 though

Just going off the Joshua tree tour boxscores U2 360 tour did $786 million in 110 dates Joshua tree did $317 in 51 dates. So if the Joshua tree did 110 dates it would have done roughly around $684. Roughly around 17 dates more and they would have topped their 360 total and that's with a standard stadium configuration.

That is the Joshua tree tour though, touring their album that everyone knows them for. So the results of that tour would probably beat i&e if it was outdoors

 

[Martinski]

Maybe there would have been a drop off, but I don't think it would have been a big one.I do get the point that a lot of casual fans ticked u2 off their list after 360 though

Just going off the Joshua tree tour boxscores U2 360 tour did $786 million in 110 dates Joshua tree did $317 in 51 dates. So if the Joshua tree did 110 dates it would have done roughly around $684. Roughly around 17 dates more and they would have topped their 360 total and that's with a standard stadium configuration.

That is the Joshua tree tour though, touring their album that everyone knows them for. So the results of that tour would probably beat i&e if it was outdoors

Well ticket prices for JT tour was much higher than the 360 one. For the seat i got at Metlife stadium i paid roughly 3x for the same type of seat i had on 360. Sure different country and 8 years later. But i paid ~120 dollars for the best seat in 2009 in Gothenburg and $300 including service fee for best seat in 2017 in New Jersey.

 

[The_acrobat]

I think that if they'd been willing to put in the time and effort, JT Tour could've surpassed 360. They barely scratched the surface in Europe. They could've milked another 10 shows out of the US and Canada. Australia and NZ would've been about 10 shows. Throw in japan, other Asian countries, and it would've been a close race.

 

[The_acrobat]

Okay now that I think about JT couldn't have beat 360, but definitely Bigger Bang for 2nd place.

 

[basstrap2418]

I don't know why I'm even bothering to engage with you.. alas.

You're comparing apples to oranges. Those 202k are not the same as the 83k.

Stadium gigs open up large swaths of cheap tickets. Arenas do not, especially with this setup where they're charging hundreds of dollars for tickets in the 400s. You're always going to get more casual to non fans at a stadium gig because of this. It's an unfair comparison.

They were never going to hit the same numbers for i/e as they did on 360, nor were they trying to.

Any two tours can be compared. The LA 360 shows, Adjusted for inflation into 2015 prices that is come out to around $110. Average ticket price for the Forum LA shows was $118.40. So the forum shows were a little more expensive. The 360 shows and the SOI shows all had a range of ticket prices including cheap seats. By the 5th forum show, even the cheap seats were not selling which is why they put a stop to any more shows. They hit a dead end with demand at 83,000 tickets sold and average price that was not much more than the 360 shows.

If you don't like the attendance comparison, we can do it with GROSS which is why the industry in general prefers.

Here are the Gross totals for the LA area shows on the two tours, without and adjustment for inflation.

The 5 SOI LA shows grossed : $9,886,540

The 3 360 LA shows grossed: $20,750,176

No matter how you stack it, you have a massive decline in attendance and gross between the two tours. SOI tour sputtered to a halt with the 5th show in an arena. All the 360 shows sold strongly hinting at even more demand.

Average ticket price was nearly the same for both tour stops in LA. Both tour stops had cheap seats as well as other tickets at various price levels.

 

[basstrap2418]

What if you adjust those numbers for inflation?

Because those are not monetary figures like Gross. Those are attendance figures.

 

[basstrap2418]

They would have needed to play 10 gigs at the forum to hit 200,000 tickets sold. That clearly was never the plan.

To bash them for something that they clearly weren't trying to do is just plain silly.

They planned to have 8 shows in LA just like they had 8 shows in New York. 10 is just two more than 8. Plus, its easier to get to 200,000 with 10 arena shows than it is to do it with just 3 stadium shows. More shows in a smaller venue gives people more dates to choose from which would fit their schedule and also gives die hards more shows to go to.

If 360 was just a greatest hits tour not impacted by the new album, the SOI shows should have been able to repeat the same business. They didn't. They suffered more than a 50% decline in business, just like many markets did on Popmart when compared to ZOO TV.

 

[basstrap2418]

I'm not sure any "shift" happened on that tour, other than the band not wanting to play the same songs two years after the tour originally started. Besides, we'd have been complaining if they were still playing the same set two years afterward with the same NLOTH tracks, even though we wouldn't be attending 95% of the shows in the end (so the usual stuff then).

On top of that, playing 3-4 "new" songs off of a 2.5 year old album is still higher than the amount some bands might play from a tour promoting a brand new album. The Achtung opening number was pretty great live anyway... so it worked out well for those particular shows.

Then when they went back on a new tour supporting a new album, they were playing 5-9 "new" songs regularly again in 2015. So pretty much back to normal for them.

Those US shows for the 2nd leg went on sale at the end of 2009 and people purchased them with the expectation of a similar setlist to the 2009 setlist. The shows were originally supposed to happen in the summer of 2010, but were delayed one year because of Bono's back problem. But still, the ticket sales for both US legs nearly all come from 2009.

 

[basstrap2418]

There was a drop off because they played arenas. There was always going to be a drop off. If i&e was a stadium tour then the numbers would have been more or less the same depending if they played 360 or not

Arenas may be smaller, but you can play more shows to equal the attendance that you see with a 2 or 3 stadium run. If your trying to sell 200,000 tickets, its actually easier to do it with 10 arena shows than it would be with just one, two or three stadium shows. More shows means more dates that people can adjust their schedule to, plus die hard's can increase their show count more than when there is just one or two stadium shows.

 

[basstrap2418]

Bottom line is, LN/U2 expect to make a certain amount of money every time they go onstage, be that in a 10,000 seat arena or a 100,000 seat stadium. Arena shows generate less income due to size, so to compensate they have a lower operating cost and higher ticket prices. Stadium shows make more money, and offer acres of cheap seats for casual fans. A stadium show costs much more money money to produce, but the large numbers of audience members still ensure that their asking price is met, less expenses.

U2 played to 202,000 on 360 in LA. Right, but if in 2009-2011, they played 10 shows at the LA forum, with the I&E pricing structure, they would not have sold 202,000 tickets. They probably would have several nights half full, and only the weekend shows would sell out:

The average ticket price difference between the stadium shows for 360 and the arena shows for SOI tour in Los Angeles is only around $8 dollars, about $110 for 360 vs $118 for the Forum. The Rose Bowl which actually had the largest capacity of any stadium U2 played on 360 in the United States had an average price of $116.25 in 2015 prices. Thats compared to $118.39.

Both tours in the LA area had a range of ticket prices from cheap tickets to higher price ones. The average ticket price for both in the Los Angeles area turned out to be nearly the same.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Arenas may be smaller, but you can play more shows to equal the attendance that you see with a 2 or 3 stadium run. If your trying to sell 200,000 tickets, its actually easier to do it with 10 arena shows than it would be with just one, two or three stadium shows. More shows means more dates that people can adjust their schedule to, plus die hard's can increase their show count more than when there is just one or two stadium shows.

There's no chance that it's easier to sell out 10 arena shows than 2 or 3 stadium shows.

None.

You're absolutely batshit crazy if you believe that.

 

[basstrap2418]

Maybe there would have been a drop off, but I don't think it would have been a big one.I do get the point that a lot of casual fans ticked u2 off their list after 360 though

Just going off the Joshua tree tour boxscores U2 360 tour did $786 million in 110 dates Joshua tree did $317 in 51 dates. So if the Joshua tree did 110 dates it would have done roughly around $684. Roughly around 17 dates more and they would have topped their 360 total and that's with a standard stadium configuration.

That is the Joshua tree tour though, touring their album that everyone knows them for. So the results of that tour would probably beat i&e if it was outdoors

That makes my point even more. A retro nostalgia tour for the Joshua Tree got defeated by a tour for the "No Line On The Horizon" album. Embarrassing but true.

The first 44 shows of the 360 tour made $313 million dollars in 2009. Adjusted for inflation in to 2017 dollars that is $367 million.

 

[basstrap2418]

Well ticket prices for JT tour was much higher than the 360 one. For the seat i got at Metlife stadium i paid roughly 3x for the same type of seat i had on 360. Sure different country and 8 years later. But i paid ~120 dollars for the best seat in 2009 in Gothenburg and $300 including service fee for best seat in 2017 in New Jersey.

For the Rose Bowl Joshua Tree shows, the average ticket price was $128.16. For the 360 Rose Bowl show, the average ticket price was $116.25 once you adjust for inflation. So a little more expensive, but not a lot.

 

[basstrap2418]

Okay now that I think about JT couldn't have beat 360, but definitely Bigger Bang for 2nd place.

There you have it, a nostalgia tour for U2's most popular album fails to beat a tour for the "No Line On The Horizon" album.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

You need to compare the median there Pythagoras. The average is meaningless.

 

[basstrap2418]

There's no chance that it's easier to sell out 10 arena shows than 2 or 3 stadium shows.

None.

You're absolutely batshit crazy if you believe that.

If you have to get to a little over 200,000 people would you prefer to do it in one show, or over 10 smaller shows where you only have to sell just 20,000 tickets a night?

Is it easier to sell 200,000 tickets in ONE show or spread out over 10 shows all on different nights?

Lots of big artist do 10 night stands in the same arena, but no single artist has done a show with 200,000 people.

Its why Garth Brooks is using Arenas rather than Stadiums to match U2's attendance record for 360.

Getting to 200,000 with 3 stadium shows is obviously easier than just one, but the concept is the same. You'll have an easier time if you try to achieve the 200,000 figure over 10 arena shows spread out over 10 nights, a little at a time. Trying to do it one day or over 3 days is more difficult.

 

[basstrap2418]

You need to compare the mean there Pythagoras. The average is meaningless.

The mean is the average, and no its not meaningless at all.

I think you might be referring to "median".

No matter how you stack it, Gross, or attendance, the LA 360 shows beat the LA SOI shows by a factor of more than 2 to 1.

The LA 360 shows for 360 grossed over $20 million. The SOI shows grossed under $10 million.

The LA 360 shows had over 200,000 attendance. The SOI shows stalled at 83,000.

The LA 360 shows soldout rapidly. The SOI shows sold at a slower pace and stalled with the 5th arena show.

 

[jphelmet]

If you have to get to a little over 200,000 people would you prefer to do it in one show, or over 10 smaller shows where you only have to sell just 20,000 tickets a night?

Is it easier to sell 200,000 tickets in ONE show or spread out over 10 shows all on different nights?

Lots of big artist do 10 night stands in the same arena, but no single artist has done a show with 200,000 people.

Its why Garth Brooks is using Arenas rather than Stadiums to match U2's attendance record for 360.

Getting to 200,000 with 3 stadium shows is obviously easier than just one, but the concept is the same. You'll have an easier time if you try to achieve the 200,000 figure over 10 arena shows spread out over 10 nights, a little at a time. Trying to do it one day or over 3 days is more difficult.

This whole post makes absolutely no sense.

 

[The_acrobat]

360 Tour beats out JT Tour because they played to the entire stadium vs an endstage show. Also, because there were half as many shows.

Not because NLOTH vs JT as albums.

As far as the EI and IE tours are concerned, if the prices were more reflective of the Vertigo tour arena prices, we'd be seeing Vertigo tour sellouts.

 

[BVS]

There's no chance that it's easier to sell out 10 arena shows than 2 or 3 stadium shows.

None.

You're absolutely batshit crazy if you believe that.

Harrison Ford could.

 

[Axver]

It's kind of flattering, really, that Sting keeps coming back here under a new name, ban after ban. Just can't seem to do without this place. But, inevitably, he gives himself away.

 

[BVS]

But, inevitably, he gives himself away.

And usually within 2 posts...

 

[Vlad n U 2]

It's kind of flattering, really, that Sting keeps coming back here under a new name, ban after ban. Just can't seem to do without this place. But, inevitably, he gives himself away.

To his credit, it's probably the first time he didn't dive straight into FYM after registering a new alter.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

It's kind of flattering, really, that Sting keeps coming back here under a new name, ban after ban. Just can't seem to do without this place. But, inevitably, he gives himself away.

It's the little things... ahhhhhh you know the rest

 

[Hewson]

And usually within 2 posts...

Doesn't even try and deny it anymore either.