NLOTH Constructive Criticism

[Mr. Person]

Not for bashing the album, but just wondering what you think could be better or expanded the next time around.

-Though the album cover looks nice, it makes the album out to seem more "gray" than it really is.

-Magnificent's electonic intro is, for me at least, the most exciting part of the song. I really want them to see what else they can do with that sound.

-Fez could have been a lot more interesting. Right now its just some Eno sounds over a drumbeat.

-Stand Up Comedy is the kind of song that needs to be organic to work. They clearly spent way too much time on that sound, where they should have been cleaning up the lyrics.

-Moment of Surrender is amazing. The "one take" recording strategy really paid off here.

-Unknown Caller would have been even better if it were weirder. Some strange phone sounds along with the chanting chorus...more ideas would have been nice.

-Boots shouldn't have been the only "new sound" song on the album. The Fly had the whole rest of the album supplementing its innovation, but Boots has no other songs to back up its theme.

 

[Gilead12]

My only constructive criticism: Stand Up Comedy sounds like some other band aping U2. A shocking waste of great music due to Bono's attempt to write another SBS-like anthem and proving perhaps even less successful than with LAPOE. It's not your thing, boys, those days are over. Give us the wisdom of MOS and COL or the return to wide-eyed boyish wonder of Magnificent/Breathe/NLOTH.

Besides that...

 

[bigloader]

My only constructive criticism: Stand Up Comedy sounds like some other band aping U2. A shocking waste of great music due to Bono's attempt to write another SBS-like anthem and proving perhaps even less successful than with LAPOE. It's not your thing, boys, those days are over. Give us the wisdom of MOS and COL or the return to wide-eyed boyish wonder of Magnificent/Breathe/NLOTH.

Besides that...

Good point. I was about to say something a bit similar, but you said it better. Anyway, my criticism: some of the songs need a chorus, and Get on Your Boots is flat out queer. For me, it was very close to being a great album, but there were a few shortcomings that holds it back. Too many recycled sounds, not many good/catchy choruses and fucking Get on Your Sexy Boots.

 

[ozeeko]

I'll just repost what i had in another thread, since it seems relevant:

Thing is, for me NLOTH is an album made by two different bands. Most of the album is made by a band looking to move forward, songs like NLOTH, Magnificent, MOS, UC, F-BB, WAS, COL are great subtle, adventurous tracks that show musical maturity and the lyrics find Bono stepping outside himself and taking on personas, which in my opinion is the best way to tell a story. Out of those, I'd say Magnificent is probably the one song where Bono is singing about himself, but he's doing it in a naked, fragile way, almost like admitting his own humility and humanity, giving himself up to the Lord, and us, and what have you, and it's a holy sounding non-cheesy moment of confession.

On CT, SUC and Breathe, Bono is in 2004 mode, acting the savior, telling us all to stand up for our love, to go crazy tonight, to walk out into the streets and sing our hearts out. That's fine, yet i ask...for WHAT? What are we rising up for? I want to hear the other side of that story! To me, it's just throwaway lines, lines that are built for a stadium that Bono knows the crowd will eat and sing along to, because it's remniscent of Streets, remniscent of Pride, remniscent of COBL, remniscent of any big stadium anthem that U2 can write in their sleep, and that casual listeners will gravitate towards, for they feel this is what "true U2" is supposed to sound like. And, as Ernie Shavers said once or twice, it reigns the album in, cuts the musical trip short. My feels of transcendence are deflated, and I find myself once again thinking "yea, these songs aren't terrible, but jeeze, do we really need more of these types of songs? How long to sing this song?" <----haha.

So to me, the frustrating issue is what appears to be two different U2's on display here. The artistic U2 trying new things and the BOMB era U2 diving back into their bag of old tracks.

GOYB is the wildcard, a song that musically is what Elevation and Vertigo wanted to be, but sabotaged with Bono's preaching. Melodically, the song is strong enough for me to overlook the lyrics, but I could so imagine this song being stellar with different lyrics.

As for Songs of Ascent, I hope it's done in a similar spirit to Zooropa, where the band conjures up interesting and abstract music, going into the project with a feeling of "fuck it, let's make something different." If it is set to be released at the end of the year, then the band won't be too preoccupied with the idea of trying to sell the album, and sell themselves...they'll simply just release something

 

[ozeeko]

let's see...other thoughts:

Now i will say I do love most of NLOTH. Out of the songs i love here's some nitpicking

NLOTH: Remember how Edge's guitar sounded on the live version most of us saw? I would've liked a more pronounced bottom, some jagged shards of hazy Sonic Youthish guitar on the verses, and less twinkly keyboards.

Magnificent: Maybe some more reverb on the "only love" parts

MOS: Wouldn't change a thing

UC: Wouldn't change a thing

GOYB: The lyrics could use a complete revision. Get rid of the reassuring lines. For example: "Satan loves a bombscare but he won't scare you" - I'd get rid of the "he won't scare you" part and come up with something more sinister. I'd make the whole song a lot more sinister, cuz let's face it, that chorus is pretty sinister.

Fez-Being Born: Some whacked out Edge shit during the end.

WAS- trash the happy keyboard riffing during the final 10 seconds.

COL- Wouldn't change a thing.

Now, for the others:

CT- I would keep the title and completely rewrite the song. Haha, if i was in charge for a day, i'd say write the song from the perspective of a bored soldier who is experiencing cabin fever and wants to go out and get fucked up, hell...maybe even kill because he's that bored. It would be one of the darkest songs U2 ever wrote, and made even darker because the disturbing lyrics are juxtaposed with a haunting pop melody. (keep in mind, different music, something fast and schizoprehic sounding)

SUC: Throw it in the trash. Dig out a better song, anything, as long as its not Winter.

Winter: Sell it to Coldplay.

Breathe: New lyrics for the entire song. More Enoish ambience, something spacier and closer to the aural equivalent of fresh air. Less of a rock song, moodier.

Steve Lillywhite: Lock him out of the studio.

That's if I was king of U2 mountain for a day.

 

[dan_smee]

NLOTH - Guitar is low in the mix, probably doesn't give enough kick in the oooohoohhhhhh bit.

Magnificent - Bono doesn't unleash in the OOOOOOHHHHHHH bit like it seemed on the ebach clip

MOS - Pretty perfect

UC - Perfect, but the guitar in verse 1 is slightly too loud in the mix, it drowns the other instruments.

CT - Not much wrong with it. Might not be everyones cup of tea, but it is the perfect pop song

GOYB - pronounce the electro percussion more.

SUC - Sounds too clean. Should be a more dirty edge effect

Fez - make intro 2 mins longer, and the second part also longer

WAS - Great, but the bass line ruins it. At the end of the figure of the 'chorus' it gets waaaaay too country. it cheapens the effect of the heartfelt, ghosty tune.

Breathe - Perfect. Bono could be more angry in the verse, and spit the words more like the Jo Whiley live version

Cedars - Perfect

 

[U2DMfan]

Steve Lillywhite: Lock him out of the studio.

Him and apparently Jimmy Iovine.

 

[U2DMfan]

Bono
-Vocal takes, some of them are just...not good.
-Almost made it an album without the falsetto...shame.
-The lyrics are, banal in spots and clever in others, it's like a mish-mash of great Bono and boring, lame, uninspired Bono.
Edge-
-I love the crystal clear tone of the delayed guitar as much as anyone but c'mon Edge, you've got a ton of colors to choose from buddy. Why go default? Lilywhitebread talk you into it?
-Most of us who got into U2, got into U2 as an alternative to boring bluesy whiteman rock that we've all been listening to our whole lives. It's not an innovation to us.

No gripes with the rhythm section, pretty solid effort.

The Songs
-Magnificent-the vocal take, the cracks are sore thumbs in an otherwise great song.
-MOS-same thing. The raspy vocals. Intentional or not, grates.
-UC- guess what I'm going to say? (see above). Also, the chorus is clumsy.
-Crazy Tonight-the falsetto 'throw', the hideous and obvious bridge-AXE both
-Boots-Bono should have sang a counter melody in the verse (think NLOTH). Instead of the laundry list, just sounds kind of uninspired.
-SUC-Erase it
-Being Born-make about 3 or 4 more in THIS vein. Throw out the whitebread rock and the silly pop indulgences. RISK.
-White as Snow-nice but boring, ya know? Finally some good lyrics, undercut by a somewhat stale backing.
-Breathe-how the fuck is this song not more raw? Lillywhite Lilith, I guess. Bono should have been BARKING those verses, if he's not going to bother to sing them.

I like the album but they are just tied back into a safe reserve, far too often here.
It could have been a lot more, there is little doubt.

 

[angstessen]

yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah

 

[last unicorn]

Wow, so the nitpicking begins? Don't we have enough threads for this already?

My ONLY critisism of NLOTH is Crazy Tonight. The title is ridiculously long, the song isn't great, they could have done better. Lyrics are so so. It's one of the weaker songs U2 have done. I even like Boots more.

Everything else on the album is wonderful. I cannot believe people don't liking Stand up Comedy. The songs brings me to my feet, I feel overwhelmed with joy when the riff starts, love that song.

Ok, maybe a little critisism about the album artwork and the typos in the booklet. The box set booklet is so much more beautiful than the regular Cd.

 

[doctorwho]

Good point. I was about to say something a bit similar, but you said it better. Anyway, my criticism: some of the songs need a chorus, and Get on Your Boots is flat out queer. For me, it was very close to being a great album, but there were a few shortcomings that holds it back. Too many recycled sounds, not many good/catchy choruses and fucking Get on Your Sexy Boots.

Oh, I don't know. I actually like LAPOE more than SBS. Yep, I said it. SBS is very obvious. I'm glad Bono rewrote Edge's lyrics because I heard the first draft was even more obvious. It was great back in '83, but to me, it didn't age well. LAPOE felt modern and current and something that could fit all times - like "Please".

I'm not sure what "flat out queer" means.

If I have a constructive criticism, it is that the album is a bit too reminiscent of TUF. It's like a modern version of that album. That said, as I love TUF (in my top 2 for U2 albums), I'm very happy with NLOTH.

 

[ozeeko]

Oh, I don't know. I actually like LAPOE more than SBS. Yep, I said it. SBS is very obvious. I'm glad Bono rewrote Edge's lyrics because I heard the first draft was even more obvious. It was great back in '83, but to me, it didn't age well. LAPOE felt modern and current and something that could fit all times - like "Please".

I'm not sure what "flat out queer" means.

If I have a constructive criticism, it is that the album is a bit too reminiscent of TUF. It's like a modern version of that album. That said, as I love TUF (in my top 2 for U2 albums), I'm very happy with NLOTH.

You might be the only one to like LAPOE more than SBS. Haha.

To each his own, but SBS is a personal sounding song. They really had unbridled anger in that track cuz it was about something close to home, whereas LAPOE is just some cliched "love and peace" song with nothing really personal about it. Besides the lyrics, SBS's message hits home further with its military drumbeat and jagged guitar parts, the sound perfectly suits the lyrics, whereas LAPOE just sounds like slowed down southern rock done very poorly with some hippy lyrics thrown on top of it.

I don't see the UF connection at all.

 

[unlessyouareme]

-Though the album cover looks nice, it makes the album out to seem more "gray" than it really is.

if you check www.sugimotohiroshi.com/ the photographer has another pic that shows really no line on the horizon, actually it's the front page. but it's also very gray.

-Magnificent's electonic intro is, for me at least, the most exciting part of the song. I really want them to see what else they can do with that sound.

it's quite 80's, i like that.

Fez could have been a lot more interesting. Right now its just some Eno sounds over a drumbeat.

before listening, only reading previews, i thought this song is something like bohemian rhapsody or paranoid android, i always want U2 to make such medley kind of songs.

Stand Up Comedy is the kind of song that needs to be organic to work. They clearly spent way too much time on that sound, where they should have been cleaning up the lyrics.

edge said they kept Stand Up Comedy in a rough state and not overproduce it by putting it through Pro-Tools.


i agree most of you guys said, but sometime i think there's no right or wrong in music, just you like it or not.

 

[EmitFlesti]

Oh, I don't know. I actually like LAPOE more than SBS. Yep, I said it. SBS is very obvious. I'm glad Bono rewrote Edge's lyrics because I heard the first draft was even more obvious. It was great back in '83, but to me, it didn't age well. LAPOE felt modern and current and something that could fit all times - like "Please".

Whoa! Love and Peace sounds more "obvious" to me than Sunday Bloody Sunday. And I think SBS has aged better. I'd still rather hear it today than LAPOE, even though the latter is only four years old! LAPOE was one of the weaker tracks on Atomic Bomb, with Bono lapsing into can't we all get along, hippy-dippy, post 9-11 vapidity.

Agree that Please is brilliant (actually, it could be called Sunday Bloody Sunday III, just as Love is Blindness could be Sunday Bloody Sunday II)

Never heard the stuff about The Edge writing the first draft of Sunday Bloody Sunday! What's the source for this?

 

[U2girl]

Some of Bono's vocals (opening song, the world "climb" and the chorus itself in Crazy tonight, "speed dialing with no signal at all" in UC...) could use another take. Some of the lines let down the otherwise fine lyrical work.

Most of all the "falsetto" in Crazy tonight. Do it right, or get Edge to do it.

Speaking of Edge, feel free to show up more on a U2 album.

 

[DevilsShoes]

I think Bono's vocals on NLOTH are leaps and bounds ahead of those on Bomb. Every song more or less has atleast one moment where he demonstrates his new found range and power, however there are also a few examples where his vocals prevent a good song from becoming a great one. The verses on UC are pretty strained to my ear and I'll Go Crazy is pretty hit and miss for me too. I think ZOO TV Bono would have done a brilliant job with those falsetto lines, they need to be a little more unleashed and uninhibited IMO.

 

[EmitFlesti]

Some of Bono's vocals (opening song, the world "climb" and the chorus itself in Crazy tonight, "speed dialing with no signal at all" in UC...) could use another take. Some of the lines let down the otherwise fine lyrical work.

Most of all the "falsetto" in Crazy tonight. Do it right, or get Edge to do it.

Speaking of Edge, feel free to show up more on a U2 album.

I think Bono sounds fine in the "speed dialing" line. Sounds just like someone should sound when speed dialing at 3:33AM!

Not sure what the complaint is about The Edge. I think he, Adam, and Larry are in fine form.

 

[U2girl]

The line is fine, the bit "at all" at the end is unnecessarily weak.

Take out the solos on Magnificent, MOS, UC and the guitars on Boots/SUC and the Edge is outshined by Eno's synths. I agree Larry and especially Adam are good.

 

[EmitFlesti]

The line is fine, the bit "at all" at the end is unnecessarily weak.

Take out the solos on Magnificent, MOS, UC and the guitars on Boots/SUC and the Edge is outshined by Eno's synths. I agree Larry and especially Adam are good.

I still think the "speed dialing line" needs to be seen in context of the lyric. The guy in the song is talking about something happening at 3:33AM. He should sound tired or weakened.

I don't thing Edge is "outshone" anywhere by Eno's synths. I think Eno makes some great contributions, and I love the synth parts on the album, but you're ignoring NLOTH, Crazy Tonight, Breathe, Cedars, Fez-Being Born, and White as Snow, in which Edge makes great contributions (as he does in the songs you mentioned) and is hardly "outshone" by Eno's synths!

 

[standrums]

What a bunch of losers on this forum - go out and make a better album than NLOTH yourselves

 

[DevilsShoes]

What a bunch of losers on this forum - go out and make a better album than NLOTH yourselves

People should be able to criticise the album though. That's what debates all about. Its brilliant but I don't think its without flaws.

 

[believer75]

I think Stand Up Comedy is better than what is being given credit for around here. It's a rockin' tune, and I am looking forward to hearing them play it live. If you want to know what he is asking people to 'stand up' for, then just listen to the lyric.

 

[Aygo]

You might be the only one to like LAPOE more than SBS. Haha.

To each his own, but SBS is a personal sounding song. They really had unbridled anger in that track cuz it was about something close to home, whereas LAPOE is just some cliched "love and peace" song with nothing really personal about it. Besides the lyrics, SBS's message hits home further with its military drumbeat and jagged guitar parts, the sound perfectly suits the lyrics, whereas LAPOE just sounds like slowed down southern rock done very poorly with some hippy lyrics thrown on top of it.

I don't see the UF connection at all.

He's not. I prefer LAPOE (specially if we're talking about the live version) over SBS too.

You don't see the connection between NLOTH and TUF? Identical sonic landscapes? Guitar work in several songs very similar?

 

[Aygo]

I don't have much negative criticism to do. And I still believe that much of the criticism we see (whether it's here about NLOTH or in a Coldplay forum, or in a Radiohead forum, or in a Kylie Minogue forum) is just a reflex of the internet-age, where we're given the possibility to discuss an object 'till the most milimetric bit. 10 or 12 years ago, NLOTH would be praised and raised to the status of 3rd masterpiece. Bomb too, guys.

Anyway, the only criticism I make is very simple. I still that Fez-Being Born had so much potential and that was left. The intro could've been even more explored and the second part as well, doesn't matter if it'd reach the 7 minute mark too.
I still think too that MOS doesn't have enough potential to be on the same pedestal of One and WOWY (or even Stay). I'm not sure that, taping a song like thing in only one take was a good idea. I feel that something was felt to polish, unlike other songs.
Breathe sounds like a sonic and hard evolution of the Rubin sessions, specially because of the drum/bass section which reminded me WITS a lot.
WAS is just perfect - I'm in love with that song - but I'd change the 10 final seconds and the way the track ends, maybe some more subtleness.

 

[jacobus]

UNKNOWN CALLER and CRAZY TONIGHT remind me too much on the lame HTDAAB (e.g. SYCMIOYO, MD, CFYT) both songs are not my cup of tea.

 

[schnumi]

How on earth can you not like SUC? That was the song that caught me the first listen through and i still enjoy it.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Wow, so the nitpicking begins? Don't we have enough threads for this already?

My ONLY critisism of NLOTH is Crazy Tonight. The title is ridiculously long,

yes yes... they should go back to using shorter titles such as Where The Streets Have No Name, I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For, Hold Me Thrill Me Kiss Me Kill Me, I Threw A Brick Through A Window, Tryin' To Throw Your Arms Around The World, Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own and Stuck In A Moment You Can't Get Out Of.

that would make the songs all the more better.

 

[Screwtape2]

I guess I'd like to see more songs like Magnificent, MOS, Unknown Caller and Fez-Being Born with a palpable atmosphere that can be restrained and soar seamlessly.

 

[cdirani]

Wow, so the nitpicking begins? Don't we have enough threads for this already?

I thought so.

 

[cdirani]

How on earth can you not like SUC? That was the song that caught me the first listen through and i still enjoy it.