What is your opinion on abortion?

[namkcuR]

I detest and refuse to use the terms 'pro life' and 'pro choice' because they are only rhetoric hiding what abortion really is.

hiding what abortion really - meaning what YOU SEE IT AS BEING - is.

 

[nbcrusader]

We could go in circles forever with this line of argument.....

 

[thacraic]

Ugghhh......


I just realized that when I posted my initial response on this thread, I thought it was the thread U2Kitten started. I was on that thread to begin with then I had to go sign in, then I clicked on the forum thingy, then I clicked the wrong thread. I'm such a numbskull. No wonder people didn't get what I was on about.....


Apologies,

Carrie

 

[thacraic]

We could go in circles forever with this line of argument.....

Not with my linear thinking

Ok I wonder if there is anyway they could move my post over to that thread? Cause I really screwed up. At any rate I need to get cracking on things. I have ignored my laundry all morning and now its early afternoon.


Take care,

Carrie

 

[MissMoo]

Here's another interesting factoid from that religioustolerance.org site: "Aristotle (384-322 BCE) wrote in one of his biological treatises 1 that the male embryo develops a human soul about 40 days after conception, whereas a female fetus acquires its soul at about 90 days. For much of its history, the Christian religion believed in this delayed-ensoulment principle and allowed abortions up to 90 days into pregnancy." I recommend checking this site out, because it clearly states what we are all discussing in a way that leaves out the drama, but addresses both sides of the debate. Sorry if this is ranting!

 

[shart1780]

Go back and read sharky's post on Jewish law before you say ridiculous things like that. It outlines very clearly what the stages of life are according to the Jewish faith.

I wasn't talking about the Jewish faith. I was refering to the beliefe that as long as it's in the mother's womb it's the mother's decision. What I was saying is by that logic it would be fine for her to just shove a knife up there and stab the baby.

 

[starsgoblue]

thecraic,

Are you really comparing all the people who have abortions to Hitler?

Not for nothing but I've seen the early meeting notes/newsletters of PP. They thought many people shouldn't procreate because of supposed inferiority....sounds close to something....

 

[FullonEdge2]

Interesting conclusion from OT sources....God doesn't like murder....I think the Psalms among other Hebrew literature make a strong case to the contrary...

Jewish law might not nessacarily jive with God's will anyways...one is manmade and the other isn't...

excellent post.

Again, why is it that people believe murder is only right if the person you're murdering is yours? If you think the baby will have a troublesome life if he/she lives, is the noble thing to do to kill him/her? If you really can't handle having a child, what is so wrong with adoption?

And yes, the term pro-choice is a classic example of white-washing of words.

 

[shart1780]

If letting the baby live is pro-life then what would not letting it live be?

 

[sharky]

I'm still questioning the accuracy of the text used myself....being that I do have a Jewish background...

If you find something else, I'm all ears. I only remember reading this because my fiance is Jewish and I've been trying to learn more about the teachings of the Jewish faith.

As for the text, shart, read it however you want. The Bible is a living breathing document that is interpreted by lots of people in lots of ways. I just wanted to point out that not all religions have the same view. If we took a poll of all the people in this thread that said they were against abortion, how many of them do you think would say they are something other than Christian? Doesn't that say something about the core, the root of this argument? If only Christians support this view, why should it be legislated by Congress as the law of the land for so many different people of so many religions or no religion?

 

[anitram]

So if you are Jewish, you believe the mother and the baby/fetus (choose your preference) is one entity, and therefore abortion is allowed in certain circumstances.

If you are a Jain, you believe that eating meat and stepping on a spider is murder.

If you are atheist, you don't care either way about any religious teachings.

That's why I'm in favour of abortion being a legal choice. I don't know what I would do in different situations, but I will NEVER ever tell a person that my religious views are more correct than theirs.

If a Jain did that to a Christian, we'd all be in jails by now. Is that reasonable to you?

 

[starsgoblue]

If you find something else, I'm all ears. I only remember reading this because my fiance is Jewish and I've been trying to learn more about the teachings of the Jewish faith.

I'm not "reading into" the scripture...I'm just having problems seeing how that one particular piece of scripture applies because it speaks of only if there is NO harm done. maybe I misunderstood something....



Just because I'm curious---are you converting to the Jewish faith?

 

[sharky]

Just because I'm curious---are you converting to the Jewish faith?

Nope, and he's not considering Catholicism. I just want to be more educated on the religion considering I'm marrying into a Jewish family on his side.

/end of off topic

 

[starsgoblue]

/end of off topic

'Scuse me

 

[indra]

If letting the baby live is pro-life then what would not letting it live be?

The problem with this argument (as to the term pro-choice) is that you fail to understand that I do not tell ANYONE she MUST have an abortion, or even that she should. What I am for is that she have the right to CHOOSE. Very, very few people who are pro-choice are por-abortion (which would be they favor abortion and would encourage pregnant woman to have abortions), but many pro-life people are anti-choice, as they do not want the pregnant woman to have any choice in the matter.

 

[u2granny]

The problem with this argument (as to the term pro-choice) is that you fail to understand that I do not tell ANYONE she MUST have an abortion, or even that she should. What I am for is that she have the right to CHOOSE. Very, very few people who are pro-choice are por-abortion (which would be they favor abortion and would encourage pregnant woman to have abortions), but many pro-life people are anti-choice, as they do not want the pregnant woman to have any choice in the matter.

Well put. I myself am not anti-choice.

 

[shart1780]

I'd call it pro-death.

 

[Evalicious]

Indra is very brave to stand up for her beliefs!

It makes me sick to my stomach to see how blind some people here can be. My sister works as a midwife and she gave me an article to read.
It was about a young girl who was raped, many times, cos the man wanted to make sure that she gets pregnant! So that she would have a child to remind her of him for always! My hands are actually shaking as im typing this, cos this story is real and so sick.
She decided to have an abortion, suicide was her first choice, but her doctor was able to talk her out of it. The people who are anti-abortion have no idea how dark, sick and hard the whole process can be for a woman.
This girl did nothing wrong!!! Why should she even be in the position for you people(the anti-abortion ones) to judge! Life is complicated, it´s not black and white.

 

[u2granny]

I'd call it pro-death.

You're entitled to your opinion as am I. Just remember, they are just opinions.

 

[speedracer]

Here's another interesting factoid from that religioustolerance.org site: "Aristotle (384-322 BCE) wrote in one of his biological treatises 1 that the male embryo develops a human soul about 40 days after conception, whereas a female fetus acquires its soul at about 90 days. For much of its history, the Christian religion believed in this delayed-ensoulment principle and allowed abortions up to 90 days into pregnancy." I recommend checking this site out, because it clearly states what we are all discussing in a way that leaves out the drama, but addresses both sides of the debate. Sorry if this is ranting!

Needless to say, Aristotle was pulling this out of the wrong end of his digestive tract.

 

[speedracer]

I feel the need to add onto my previous post, in which I declared my strong view that the government need stay the hell out of the womb. Here's the thing: Even if abortion were to be made illegal, large amounts of women would STILL get them anyway, except they'd be getting them from illegal, less dependable sources, and as such will be risking their health far more than they put be in a legal aboriton. If these women are going to get abortions either way, then it needs to be kept legal so at least they are alive and well afterwards.

Must the law always protect people when they make dangerous choices with their bodies?

(The question I pose here assumes that the pregnancy itself is not life-threatening.)

 

[speedracer]

Indra is very brave to stand up for her beliefs!

It makes me sick to my stomach to see how blind some people here can be. My sister works as a midwife and she gave me an article to read.
It was about a young girl who was raped, many times, cos the man wanted to make sure that she gets pregnant! So that she would have a child to remind her of him for always! My hands are actually shaking as im typing this, cos this story is real and so sick.
She decided to have an abortion, suicide was her first choice, but her doctor was able to talk her out of it. The people who are anti-abortion have no idea how dark, sick and hard the whole process can be for a woman.
This girl did nothing wrong!!! Why should she even be in the position for you people(the anti-abortion ones) to judge! Life is complicated, it´s not black and white.

All right. What about the other 99.99% of pregnancies?

 

[BVS]

I'd call it pro-death.

While we're making such statements...

I'd call that pro-ignorance.

 

[iacrobat]

Comparing everyone that has an abortion to Hitler? Huh? Sorry the more I think about it, I really don't know how you got that out of what I posted. Maybe its my poor writing skills. Dunno...

Carrie

you said before:

The primary reason people have abortions is for a means of birth control. The idea of getting rid of a child because they may have severe birth defects or be retarded (profoundly or otherwise) is just inhumane and morally wrong.

Hitler had those kind of ideas. He did away with people that were flawed.

Sorry, my fault. What I should have said was: are you really comparing people who feel it is humane to abort a severely retarded fetus, and those who have had an abortion for this reason to Hitler?

Maybe I've got my history all mixed up, but I always believed Hitler was trying to help along the master race, gene pool, and so forth, that it was not an attempt to be humane.

Starsgoblue:

PP?

 

[indra]

While we're making such statements...

I'd call that pro-ignorance.

I agree.

 

[BrownEyedBoy]

Ronal Reagan said it pretty well

"I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born."

On the other hand, one of my friends said it really well too.

"If you don't want an abortion ...then don't get one."

Somehow hard to explain, but I'm Anti-Abortion but Pro-Choice.

 

[starsgoblue]

Starsgoblue:

PP?

I'm sorry PP is short for Planned Parenthood.

 

[indra]

Ronal Reagan said it pretty well

On the other hand, one of my friends said it really well too.



Somehow hard to explain, but I'm Anti-Abortion but Pro-Choice.

I don't think that is at all inconsistent. I actually think most pro-choice people feel very much the same way. As I've said many time, I don't know what I would do if I was pregnant, but I want to be able to make my own choices, and I will allow others to make their own choices as well.

 

[starsgoblue]

To others: I have never said that there was extenuiating circumstances. I also have never said that because evil was done against another so should the same. It really really depends on the situation.....

 

[starsgoblue]

I am anti-abortion but because I feel there are SO few cases where a woman might feel warrarented....