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Old 01-07-2018, 10:15 PM   #581
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??? Depends upon which part of the quote you're talking about.


Are you surprised, or do you not really think he’s in the GOPs corner?
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Old 01-07-2018, 10:22 PM   #582
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Are you surprised, or do you not really think he’s in the GOPs corner?


My first comments were serious, but my last comment was sarcastic.

I'm genuinely surprised that they're leaking someone's private product. That's not what they do. They've got some anti-government "libertarian" schtick to them. This really isn't compatible.

And my comments finished by an eye roll because its obvious they picked a side a while ago.
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Old 01-07-2018, 10:29 PM   #583
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My first comments were serious, but my last comment was sarcastic.

I'm genuinely surprised that they're leaking someone's private product. That's not what they do. They've got some anti-government "libertarian" schtick to them. This really isn't compatible.

And my comments finished by an eye roll because its obvious they picked a side a while ago.


I think the “libertarian” schtick disappeared years ago. This was deliberately done to hurt the earnings of someone who, I suspect, are paying him in some way or another.

The info in the book will get out no matter what, so he can’t argue public service, he did this for Trump.
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Old 01-07-2018, 10:40 PM   #584
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Julian Assange doesn't need money... dude's probably rolling in bitcoin dough right now. He needs allies. Who better than the moron that is Orange Donnie?
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Old 01-07-2018, 10:42 PM   #585
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Julian Assange doesn't need money... dude's probably rolling in bitcoin dough right now. He needs allies. Who better than the moron that is Orange Donnie?


Hence “someway or another”.
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Old 01-08-2018, 09:54 AM   #586
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Are you surprised, or do you not really think he’s in the GOPs corner?


He’s in Putin’s corner.
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Old 01-08-2018, 10:00 AM   #587
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he’s in putin’s corner.


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Old 01-08-2018, 10:27 AM   #588
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Is there any proof that Wikileaks published this to "hurt the financial viability" of the book? And isn't it a little ridiculous getting worked up about it? The book is already all over torrent sites (and other such places) readily available to anyone who wants to get it that way. But some seem to have such a personal investment in the success of this book that it leaking, like a million other IP's, is somehow a blow against democracy. And if anything, it cuts both ways...by putting the book out there for free it just gives the message all the more circulation.

I also find is somewhat amusing that Assange and Wikileaks are now regarded as such an enemy by the left, given the latter's former enthusiastic embrace of both. Also interesting is that when Wikileaks was putting government secrets out there, that may have put lives and intelligence methods in jeopardy, they were regarded by heroes by many who are now criticising them. But once they dared hack the DNC...well THAT's unforgivable. So compromising US intelligence sources was fine, but compromise the Democratic party and it's treason.

The right's new love for Assange is equally hypocritical and embarrassing, and they'll come to regret their embrace of this low life as well. In fact watching the left and right swap positions on so many things over the past year reminds me of seeing a high school football team switch ends at halftime.
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Old 01-08-2018, 10:51 AM   #589
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Is there any proof that Wikileaks published this to "hurt the financial viability" of the book? And isn't it a little ridiculous getting worked up about it? The book is already all over torrent sites (and other such places) readily available to anyone who wants to get it that way. But some seem to have such a personal investment in the success of this book that it leaking, like a million other IP's, is somehow a blow against democracy. And if anything, it cuts both ways...by putting the book out there for free it just gives the message all the more circulation.

I also find is somewhat amusing that Assange and Wikileaks are now regarded as such an enemy by the left, given the latter's former enthusiastic embrace of both. Also interesting is that when Wikileaks was putting government secrets out there, that may have put lives and intelligence methods in jeopardy, they were regarded by heroes by many who are now criticising them. But once they dared hack the DNC...well THAT's unforgivable. So compromising US intelligence sources was fine, but compromise the Democratic party and it's treason.

The right's new love for Assange is equally hypocritical and embarrassing, and they'll come to regret their embrace of this low life as well. In fact watching the left and right swap positions on so many things over the past year reminds me of seeing a high school football team switch ends at halftime.
So yes, they're doing it in an attempt to hurt sales... A poor one, since anyone who wants it already has it.

And nobody in here is going nuts over the leak, so don't know where you're getting that. But hey, go nuts.

As for WikiLeaks in general... Personally I never agreed with their methods, but yea, some did and now don't. Alas, a crucial correction - WikiLeaks did not hack the DNC. Russia hacked the DNC, and WikiLeaks was used as the vehicle to get the information out.

There's a major difference between acting as a whistleblower site and acting as am arm of the Putin intelligence machine.
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Old 01-08-2018, 11:02 AM   #590
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I think you’re imagining things Nick - nobody here is freaking out.

I consider myself centre-left and I have always been staunchly of the belief that Assange is a criminal and that Wikileaks put lives in danger.
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Old 01-08-2018, 11:07 AM   #591
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are they? what evidence do we have that proves this assertion?

i'm not debating it's merits or worthiness, i am questioning that these are the kinds of things that will inspire millions of millions of non-voters to vote. furthermore, such sweeping changes might also inspire millions of non-voters to vote against these things as well.

why are we assuming that non-voters would be inspired by "tangible economic benefits" presented as free college or socialized medicine and not tax cuts and deregulation? what makes you certain that a non-voter wouldn't vote for conservative policies?

i don't want to rehash 2016, but one take away is that what i *do* think makes a difference is the quality of the candidate. i think we could argue that what Trump did do was inspire just enough non- or low-frequency rural white voters to make a difference in a slim number of swing states, just like Obama was able to outperform in rust belt cities amongst the young and minority voters.
Because Trump didn't get voted in by the working class and the poor and rural voters. He got voted in by white people in the suburbs.
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President Fredo
The difference, obviously, is that the Corleone's never gave Fredo power. Trump's had it for 40 years.
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Old 01-08-2018, 11:14 AM   #592
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Because Trump didn't get voted in by the working class and the poor and rural voters. He got voted in by white people in the suburbs.


This I think could be debated — certainly many white suburban voters voted for Trump, but what I remember from election night and from much analysis afterwards was his overperformance among rural whites, which is why the polling was so wrong.

But that’s not the crux of my question to you.

What I really want to know is if you think there are policies that will inspire the millions of non-voters to vote, what those policies would be, why these policies would be more compelling as a reason to vote than voting against Trump, and what are you basing your assertions on.
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Old 01-08-2018, 11:28 AM   #593
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My idea is that youth voters have never been courted because they haven't had the purchasing power to be donors. Youth voters have more at stake than anyone in politics, and they don't vote because no one ever reaches out to them. That would be why there is basically no precedent for me to cite other than Corbyn, and even that is somewhat of a stretch. It never happens because all politics is filtered through the issues that the donor class cares about.

Start there. The issues I cited are the ones young people care about.
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Old 01-08-2018, 11:29 AM   #594
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So yes, they're doing it in an attempt to hurt sales... A poor one, since anyone who wants it already has it.

And nobody in here is going nuts over the leak, so don't know where you're getting that. But hey, go nuts.

As for WikiLeaks in general... Personally I never agreed with their methods, but yea, some did and now don't. Alas, a crucial correction - WikiLeaks did not hack the DNC. Russia hacked the DNC, and WikiLeaks was used as the vehicle to get the information out.

There's a major difference between acting as a whistleblower site and acting as am arm of the Putin intelligence machine.
There seems to be this perception that whenever I talk about the general zeitgeist of social media I must be referring to people here...which I'm not necessarily.

Though you're quite right that it wasn't Wikileaks who did the hacking, just the dissemination...I should have been more clear.

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I consider myself centre-left and I have always been staunchly of the belief that Assange is a criminal and that Wikileaks put lives in danger.
Me too.
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Old 01-08-2018, 11:34 AM   #595
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don't think this has been posted here yet but this does a pretty good job of debunking the "it was the poor white rednecks in dead coal mining towns that swung it for trump" view:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...lusion/546356/

spoiler alert: as much as we want to pretend it was the uneducated yokels falling for blatant lies, it was pure white suburbanite racism. those weren't poor lower class rural folks marching through the streets of charlottesville with torches and murdering counter-protesters.
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Old 01-08-2018, 11:43 AM   #596
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don't think this has been posted here yet but this does a pretty good job of debunking the "it was the poor white rednecks in dead coal mining towns that swung it for trump" view:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...lusion/546356/

spoiler alert: as much as we want to pretend it was the uneducated yokels falling for blatant lies, it was pure white suburbanite racism. those weren't poor lower class rural folks marching through the streets of charlottesville with torches and murdering counter-protesters.
Well... it was both, but there are more suburbanites.

The country I grew up in, in the shadow of the liberal elites of New York City.. the first suburbs... broke for Trump.

The county had previously voted Democrat in every national election since 1996.
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Old 01-08-2018, 12:23 PM   #597
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We, as a country, fully deserve a 2020 Presidential Election between a reality TV star and a talk show host.
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Old 01-08-2018, 12:35 PM   #598
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US Politics V - now with 20% more echo chamber

We as a country deserve a juicy impeachment saga for the 2018 midterms.

Like, with him fighting back on twitter.
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Old 01-08-2018, 01:29 PM   #599
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Is there any proof that Wikileaks published this to "hurt the financial viability" of the book? And isn't it a little ridiculous getting worked up about it? The book is already all over torrent sites (and other such places) readily available to anyone who wants to get it that way. But some seem to have such a personal investment in the success of this book that it leaking, like a million other IP's, is somehow a blow against democracy. And if anything, it cuts both ways...by putting the book out there for free it just gives the message all the more circulation.

I also find is somewhat amusing that Assange and Wikileaks are now regarded as such an enemy by the left, given the latter's former enthusiastic embrace of both. Also interesting is that when Wikileaks was putting government secrets out there, that may have put lives and intelligence methods in jeopardy, they were regarded by heroes by many who are now criticising them. But once they dared hack the DNC...well THAT's unforgivable. So compromising US intelligence sources was fine, but compromise the Democratic party and it's treason.

The right's new love for Assange is equally hypocritical and embarrassing, and they'll come to regret their embrace of this low life as well. In fact watching the left and right swap positions on so many things over the past year reminds me of seeing a high school football team switch ends at halftime.
There's actually people getting worked up over this?!

Proof? Sometimes you just have to go with the "there's really only one reason" educated guess.

Assange has always been an asshole, never understood either side's obsession with him.
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Old 01-08-2018, 01:47 PM   #600
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We, as a country, fully deserve a 2020 Presidential Election between a reality TV star and a talk show host.
Apparently all that is required to be POTUS is to give a speech.

No background in law
No background in government

While I think Oprah would be a better President than Trump, it would still be a disaster and a joke.

Let's not forget about the Rock. He could get the youth vote!
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