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Old 08-28-2008, 09:33 AM   #641
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Whoa, calm down there Utoo...
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Old 08-28-2008, 10:21 AM   #642
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I personally know people who have been to hell and back because of war (some still stuck in that hell and will never get out), and yet they never once use it to respond to criticism of other aspects of their lives, or exploited it to deflect from other issues.
So do I, but that doesn't mean I'd resort to making light of their experiences to make my point if I felt they were exploiting them. No one suggested that McCain's way of using them was somehow beyond criticism. Pointing out that he risks cheapening his own experiences and those of others by using them in that way is fine; pointing out the sadness of someone with his background having waffled on the Bush Administration's attempts to redefine acceptable 'interrogation techniques' is fine. But there are some kinds of personal experiences it's not for you (I mean 'you' generically) to mockingly make light of, unless they're your experiences as well.
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Dude, if you seriously think that military service makes one competent to lead a country, you're an idiot.
Not only do you completely misrepresent his point, but you toss in a personal attack as well.
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Old 08-28-2008, 10:36 AM   #643
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we have phrases like "white lies."
There you go, playing the race card.
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Old 08-28-2008, 10:40 AM   #644
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There you go, playing the race card.


touche. well played.
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Old 08-28-2008, 11:24 AM   #645
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Good people of America without health insurance, fear not. John McCain's platform doesn't believe you're really uninsured.

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But the numbers are misleading, said John Goodman, president of the National Center for Policy Analysis, a right-leaning Dallas-based think tank. Mr. Goodman, who helped craft Sen. John McCain's health care policy, said anyone with access to an emergency room effectively has insurance, albeit the government acts as the payer of last resort. (Hospital emergency rooms by law cannot turn away a patient in need of immediate care.)

"So I have a solution. And it will cost not one thin dime," Mr. Goodman said. "The next president of the United States should sign an executive order requiring the Census Bureau to cease and desist from describing any American – even illegal aliens – as uninsured. Instead, the bureau should categorize people according to the likely source of payment should they need care.
Not sure how many people in here have a medical background, but anyone who does and anyone else with one shred of common sense and two brain cells to rub together will tell you that the emergency room is NOT where you should be receiving ongoing primary care! The entire notion is too absurd for words.

Article here.
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Old 08-28-2008, 11:32 AM   #646
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I know a few emergency med docs, and they're always shaking their heads over the number of people who attempt to (well, have to) rely on emergency room visits for any and all "health care" because they don't have insurance.
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Old 08-28-2008, 11:37 AM   #647
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Dear, dear Senator McCain, this is not what people mean when they say "universal health care plan". I've never even heard of the government picking up someone's ER bills. When I had to go to the ER a couple years ago, we didn't have insurance because the school my dad taught at had just closed, and we didn't have insurance at that point. We just finished paying off that bill a couple months ago. It took over 2 years.
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Old 08-28-2008, 11:42 AM   #648
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I know a few emergency med docs, and they're always shaking their heads over the number of people who attempt to (well, have to) rely on emergency room visits for any and all "health care" because they don't have insurance.
And that's what creates the long lines in the ER that everybody likes to complain about.

The comments in that article are really indicative of a head-in-the-sand mentality more than anything else.
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Old 08-28-2008, 11:50 AM   #649
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so you're more qualified than i am to be president simply because you're a veteran?
Hey, according to this guy, yes.

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According to Scott Southworth, co-chair of Veterans for John McCain,

"Its very important when you're fighting wars on different fronts, that the commander in chief understands what its like to be in the military and serve his country. Barack Obama chose not to serve his country. John McCain chose to serve his country."
Unless you're in fatigues, you are NOT SERVING YOUR COUNTRY.

Doctors, nurses, social workers, teachers, volunteers, community outreach organizers, please go piss off.
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Old 08-28-2008, 11:52 AM   #650
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I guess Scott Southworth missed out on the breaking news that Bush didn't serve in the military either. Does this guy address that?
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Old 08-28-2008, 12:00 PM   #651
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Hey, according to this guy, yes.



Unless you're in fatigues, you are NOT SERVING YOUR COUNTRY.

Doctors, nurses, social workers, teachers, volunteers, community outreach organizers, please go piss off.
Not long ago in this forum I was defending the Iraq War, and someone, maybe multiple people (I forget who, but maybe I'll search for it) said something to me along the lines of:

"Well if you support the war, why aren't you in Iraq? When are you enlisting?"

I pointed out that you can support the war and serve your country without necessarily joining the military. I hope you denounce those remarks made towards me, right? Just wondering. Because I didn't see too many people back me up then.
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Old 08-28-2008, 12:04 PM   #652
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I guess Scott Southworth missed out on the breaking news that Bush didn't serve in the military either. Does this guy address that?
Bush served in the Air National Guard which is apart of the military.
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Old 08-28-2008, 12:06 PM   #653
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I can't speak for anybody who told you to enlist - you have a beef, take it up with them.

But I think there is a difference between this man saying that Obama CHOSE not to serve his country (in a time of peace, I might add) and somebody wondering why a person doesn't enlist at a time of war when they are pushing that particular war particularly strongly. Again though, I can't guarantee this was whoever's thinking, but it's my first assumption.
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Old 08-28-2008, 12:06 PM   #654
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Bush served in the Air National Guard which is apart of the military.
Yeah, for about 3 days. He barely finished his training. Let's be real here. There have so been discrepancies in his records that it's not even funny. There's evidence to prove this. Try researching it.
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Old 08-28-2008, 12:10 PM   #655
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Yeah, for about 3 days. He barely finished his training. Let's be real here. There have so been discrepancies in his records that it's not even funny. There's evidence to prove this. Try researching it.
Yeah, there are all kinds of conspiracies and unproven allegations. You can ask Dan Rather about it. But fact remains, you are 100% incorrect when you state that Bush did not serve in the military.
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Old 08-28-2008, 12:13 PM   #656
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I don't consider going through some flight training "serving" in the military. I don't care if it's technically considered that He did the bare minimum and got out. He shouldn't be considered a hero by anyone who's truly served their country as soldiers. such as John McCain and John Kerry did.
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Old 08-28-2008, 12:16 PM   #657
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I can't speak for anybody who told you to enlist - you have a beef, take it up with them.

But I think there is a difference between this man saying that Obama CHOSE not to serve his country (in a time of peace, I might add) and somebody wondering why a person doesn't enlist at a time of war when they are pushing that particular war particularly strongly. Again though, I can't guarantee this was whoever's thinking, but it's my first assumption.
Well, the United States was involved multiple wars in the 1990s, so you really can't state that it was a time of peace. In addition, the year after 9/11 and prior to the Iraq war was indeed a time of war as well.
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Old 08-28-2008, 12:18 PM   #658
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I don't consider going through some flight training "serving" in the military. I don't care if it's technically considered that He did the bare minimum and got out. He shouldn't be considered a hero by anyone who's truly served their country as soldiers. such as John McCain and John Kerry did.
Its rather simple, Bush served in the military. You claimed he did not. Your factually incorrect. Just admit it and move on.
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Old 08-28-2008, 12:21 PM   #659
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Well, the United States was involved multiple wars in the 1990s, so you really can't state that it was a time of peace.
If you polled 10 people and asked them if the US was at war post-Desert Storm, I guarantee you that 10 out of 10 would say no. You're just talking about semantics here.

But this is really completely irrelevant to the point at hand. Do you agree with Southworth's statement?
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Old 08-28-2008, 12:26 PM   #660
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Its rather simple, Bush served in the military. You claimed he did not. Your factually incorrect. Just admit it and move on.
I knew that Bush was in the National Guard. I knew he completed his training. I know he technically served. He never fought in combat or spent years in the military as a career. That's what I was referring to. Don't tell me what I need to admit or not admit. If you misunderstood me or anyone else here, it's not our fault.
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