the surge is working!

[struckpx]

Originally posted by Irvine511




political parties choose which wars we get involved in, and may i remind you, the president is the Commander In Chief.

yes, but where does he get the information to make these decisions? it's a very long process that can be contributed to many political parties, if you ask me.

[Irvine511]

Originally posted by struckpx


yes, but where does he get the information to make these decisions? it's a very long process that can be contributed to many political parties, if you ask me.

apparently not from the CIA but from Dick Cheney's personal convictions.

[struckpx]

Originally posted by Irvine511




apparently not from the CIA but from Dick Cheney's personal convictions.

lame response.

[Irvine511]

Originally posted by struckpx


lame response.

is that the best you can do?

if you think the current Iraq war is anything other than a Republican concoction -- dating back to the late 1990's and the AEI -- through and through, and that 9-11 merely provided a rationale and WMDs a justification (and a fabricated one at that), and that it all comes back to Dick Cheney, then i've got some beachfront property in Wyoming i'd like to sell you.

[unico]

Originally posted by struckpx


tell me anywhere in there where it starts with, "the iraqi government can.......

nowhere. everything is set up by people in washington who have no idea about what is really going on there. they do not know anything about the region other than reading reports, and that is not enough to truly know how a country needs to be run.

nope. you definitely didn't read it.

and given your2nd paragraph, how in the world does that justify the current u.s. occupation? now you're contradicting yourself.

[AEON]

Originally posted by anitram


You're turning 18 soon, right? Well guess what, good news! Your country needs you. They can't get enough people to enlist and you're just the right age.

After all, you don't want to lose, right? And as you said:

I re-joined the military in March 2003. Most of the soldiers in my platoon have joined since the Iraq war.

All of them are great men. Our country needs more of them. Western Civilization needs more of them.

[Angela Harlem]

Yeah, nothing like men with a bible in one hand and a gun in the other. The world is so sorely lacking in them. Yep.

[AEON]

Originally posted by Angela Harlem
Yeah, nothing like men with a bible in one hand and a gun in the other. The world is so sorely lacking in them. Yep.

"I went out walkin' with a Bible and a gun..." Great song.

And yes, I quite agree with you.

[Irvine511]

Originally posted by AEON
All of them are great men. Our country needs more of them. Western Civilization needs more of them.

that's quite self-serving, don't you think? i suppose Western Civilization needs fewer intellectuals and peace activists? less talk, more gushing chest wounds?

still, there doesn't seem to be as many of your breatheren as the US Army seems to need these days.

[unico]

i was about to post the same article.
if you're gonna stay in my head you better start paying rent.

[dazzlingamy]

Originally posted by struckpx
It is sad that our country won't even give it a chance to succeed. We want to fail in this war, just like Vietnam. We want to lose. We could win this war if we really wanted too, its just we don't have big enough balls to handle the sacrifices that it will cost to do that. We are at war with an idea that involves the death to all of us who believe in the idea of freedoms. Those of you that aren't able to realize that should have been in school in Manhattan when the two planes flew into our towers. Tell the people that lost their lives b/c of barbarians who felt it necessary to fly commercial jetliners into buildings. Those are the type of people that want to take over Iraq, and 1/2 of our country wants to let them do that. Well, shame on us. If those 1200+ died for nothing, so be it. Let us shrivel up and live in our cacoons and wait for the next event to motivate us to do the same thing again. But, Bush should not pull back. He at least owes it to us who lived through the terror.

13 pages and i can't get past this post. This is why we are fucked, because there are people out there that think like this. How can you actually write that and believe it? I mean this will all the respect i can muster, but seriously, how can you sit there and write this?

Do you know how many innocent people have died because your country decided to go into a fight that you had NO RIGHT TO START against ALL WISHES and you ARROGANTLY pushed in started killing the fuck out of a people you have NO RIGHT OVER.

How would you feel if this happened to you? How dare you have no respect for a fellow human being. You can't see past your own blind bullshit lies that you happily believe. The fact that you still link 9/11 with Iraq just screws your whole argument. And the worst of all, you hold 1200 lives of americans over TENS OF THOUSANDS of fathers, mothers, daughters, sons, friends, and lovers that died in this BULLSHIT HORRIBLE HEARTBREAKING WAR! Absolutely disgusting.

[Irvine511]

Originally posted by dazzlingamy

you ARROGANTLY pushed in started killing the fuck out of a people you have NO RIGHT OVER.

to be fair, the vast majority of dead Iraqis have come at the hands of other Iraqis. the US is not drilling holes through the eyes of Sunnis and tossing them into the Tigris.

granted, it was this debacle that uncorked ethnic trensions that have simmered for centuries and could only be contained by a murderous dictator like Saddam, but it's not quite fair to say that the US is directly "killing the fuck" out of the Iraqi people.

[dazzlingamy]

i disagree.

Not only did the US open the flood gates for all this civil fighting, which although was present before is now completely out of control, but they end up stuck in the middle rather then doing anything of real use. Ok so you got Saddam out of power, well done - now what? Oh ok, keep shooting rockets at supposed "terrorists" and turning your back on others.

While i don't disagree with the ferocity of the civil war going on in IRaq, I do believe that the US are directly involved in the deaths of thousands, a hell of a lot more then who died in sept 11th, and yet we all have to keep looking to that as such a terrible waste of life, yet the people that die in Iraq are just "collateral damage' and had nothing to do with sept 11th in the first place. Its the arrogance of a people to believe they have the right to march into somelse territory, kill or imprison the people in power and take over the country.

[Irvine511]

^ we broadly agree, actually. though i think it's a little more complex than that, and i don't think it's fair to ignore the fact that Saddam was "kiling the fuck" out of a lot of Iraqis under his rule as well.

are things worse? unquestionably. is this the biggest failure in US foreign policy history? probably. was it a bad idea to begin with? absolutely.

do Americans lust for Iraqi blood? no.

[unico]

i can't seem to find it right now, but i thought i read somewhere that the number of civilian casualties was greater than the number of insurgent casualties. does anybody know if this is true?

[Irvine511]

Originally posted by unico
i can't seem to find it right now, but i thought i read somewhere that the number of civilian casualties was greater than the number of insurgent casualties. does anybody know if this is true?

taht wouldn't surprise me, but that proves my point -- it is not American troops who drive car bombs into marketplaces nor are American troops blowing up mosques.

[unico]

Originally posted by Irvine511
do Americans lust for Iraqi blood? no.

perhaps a number of those directly involved in this combat don't. but i've seen enough civilian propaganda to indicate otherwise. and they think it's funny.

[Irvine511]

Originally posted by unico


perhaps a number of those directly involved in this combat don't. but i've seen enough civilian propaganda to indicate otherwise. and they think it's funny.

can you explain? not sure what you mean.

[unico]

Originally posted by Irvine511




taht wouldn't surprise me, but that proves my point -- it is not American troops who drive car bombs into marketplaces nor are American troops blowing up mosques.

americans aren't directly responsible for at least some of these civilian casualties?

[Irvine511]

Originally posted by unico


americans aren't directly responsible for at least some of these civilian casualties?

i'm sure at least some. yes.

but the vast, vast majority of Iraqi civilian deaths are caused by other Iraqis.

we're policing a Civil War.