The Lexington Project

[Dusty Bottoms]

What do you think of McCain's new energy plan? Here are the highlights...

John McCain 2008 - John McCain for President

John McCain Will Commit $2 Billion Annually To Advancing Clean Coal Technologies.

John McCain Will Put His Administration On Track To Construct 45 New Nuclear Power Plants By 2030 With The Ultimate Goal Of Eventually Constructing 100 New Plants.

John McCain Will Establish A Permanent Tax Credit Equal To 10 Percent Of Wages Spent On R&D

John McCain Will Encourage The Market For Alternative, Low Carbon Fuels Such As Wind, Hydro And Solar Power.

Since melon has convinced me that nuclear power is the way to go when it comes to energy, I'm liking McCain's plan. I've thought all along that I'd be voting for Obama, but now I am rethinking things. The energy crisis is the number one issue for me, as I think everything else hinges off that. The economy will continue to sputter until we can get this under control, and ridding ourselves of foreign oil dependency is vital.

Now I want to vote for Obama, but his energy plan really just consists of goals, without spelling out a way for how we can reach those goals.

Obama's reaction to McCain's plan...

"I think that nuclear power should be in the mix when it comes to energy." But he added, "I don't think it's our optimal energy source because we haven't figured out how to store the waste safely or recycle the waste."

Ok, so what is your plan Mr Obama?

[BVS]

Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms

Now I want to vote for Obama, but his energy plan really just consists of goals, without spelling out a way for how we can reach those goals.

Where does McCain spell out anything?

Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms

John McCain Will Encourage The Market For Alternative, Low Carbon Fuels Such As Wind, Hydro And Solar Power.

How does he plan on "encouraging" our market?

[INDY500]

[deep]

Originally Posted by BonoVoxSupastar

Where does McCain spell out anything?



How does he plan on "encouraging" our market?

McCain proposes $300M prize for new auto battery

By GLEN JOHNSON, Associated Press Writer Mon Jun 23, 7:49 PM ET

FRESNO, Calif. - Republican presidential candidate John McCain said Monday that the search for alternatives to the country's dependence on foreign oil is so urgent that he's willing to throw money at it.
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The Arizona senator proposed a $300 million prize for whoever can develop a better automobile battery, and $5,000 tax credits for consumers who buy new zero-emission vehicles. The latest proposal is in addition to his support for overturning the federal ban on offshore oil drilling.

"In the quest for alternatives to oil, our government has thrown around enough money subsidizing special interests and excusing failure. From now on, we will encourage heroic efforts in engineering, and we will reward the greatest success," McCain said in a speech at Fresno State University.

Were you not aware of this?

[Vincent Vega]

Clean Coal technologies so far are pretty bad. They lower the efficiency rate to around 30 percent. Not that they shouldn't be developed and researched further, but I think priority should be to develop other means of energy production and energy saving more.

I don't know where he wants to get the uranium to run 100 nuclear power plants, but maybe he hopes the world will just produce for the US. Additionally, a nuclear power plant itself might be carbon free, the production chain of the uranium as of the plant however is not, so is not the storage, and there is still dispute over how high the costs will be to satisfy our uranium demand: BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Nuclear's CO2 cost 'will climb'

We would also have to increase the efficiency of all power plants, which is much more important.

But like with the oil one thing is for sure: Instead of exploiting more and more deposits focus should lie on how to reduce energy consumption altogether, in the US, the greatest energy consumer on earth, in Europe and in all other parts of the world.

Both candidates should get more clear on what their plans exactly are.

[Dusty Bottoms]

Originally Posted by BonoVoxSupastar

Where does McCain spell out anything?

Well I just posted the highlights, the substance is in the link I posted. For one, he wants to build 45 new nuclear plants by 2030, with 100 new plants the ultimate goal.

He wants to expand domestic oil exploration to the outer continental shelf. While this isn't ideal, it is better than being reliant on countries in the mideast. And if it can give us some stability while waiting for alternative forms or energy to develop, then I'm for it.

Originally Posted by BonoVoxSupastar

How does he plan on "encouraging" our market?

With tax credits and incentives to develop clean energy technologies. A 300 million dollar prize for someone who develops a fully electric car. A 5000 dollar tax credit to people who buy zero emission cars. A permanent tax credit of 10% of wages spent on research and development of these clean energies plus temporary tax credits to make wind, solar and hydro energies commercially feasible.

It may not be perfect, but at least it's a start. I've yet to hear anything from Obama that I can really get behind on the energy front yet.

[BVS]

Originally Posted by deep

Were you not aware of this?

Um, yes...

My point was this is still just a goal, not a plan. After he throws the 300 million out, how does he plan on implementing the battery, what does a better battery mean, what if it can't be done?

[deep]

Originally Posted by BonoVoxSupastar

Um, yes...

My point was this is still just a goal, not a plan. After he throws the 300 million out, how does he plan on implementing the battery, what does a better battery mean, what if it can't be done?

The problem with electric cars are that the batteries are about half the weight of the car and run down too quick.

A lighter more powerful battery makes electric cars viable.


as for their two plans

here is an article from the Christian Science Monitor

McCain and Obama share energy goals, not methods
The candidates would take very different steps to greater energy independence for Americans.

By Ariel Sabar | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

from the June 30, 2008 edition

Washington - John McCain and Barack Obama know that most Americans need look no further than the gas pump for proof of America's energy crunch.

With fuel topping $4 a gallon and oil at a record price, energy now ties the economy in polls as voters' top concern, and the presidential candidates spent the past week trying to outflank each other on an issue that's thinning billfolds from Maine to California.

Their plans share key goals – less reliance on foreign oil, a push for cleaner fuels – but their methods differ sharply.

Senator McCain, the presumptive GOP nominee, wants 45 new nuclear power plants by 2030 and an end to the federal moratorium on new offshore drilling. He would use market lures – tax rebates for electric cars, a $300 million prize for a better car battery – to promote alternative sources of energy. He would offer motorists immediate relief in the form of a hiatus in the federal gas tax.

Senator Obama, the presumptive Democratic nominee, opposes new offshore drilling and is wary of nuclear power. He would double auto fuel-efficiency standards within 18 years, subsidize development of ethanol, and force power companies to generate one- quarter of their energy from wind, solar, and other renewable sources by 2025.

An opponent of the gas-tax holiday, Obama favors a "windfall profits" tax on multinational oil companies.

Obama really does not offer anything
just pandering to his interest groups


so score one for McCain
an experience player that knows how to move the ball


not just sit on it and hope time runs out.

[Bluer White]

Originally Posted by deep

(via the Christian Science Monitor) Senator Obama, the presumptive Democratic nominee, opposes new offshore drilling and is wary of nuclear power. He would double auto fuel-efficiency standards within 18 years, subsidize development of ethanol, and force power companies to generate one- quarter of their energy from wind, solar, and other renewable sources by 2025.

So Mr. Obama criticizes McCain because it would take years to develop offshore drilling, but Obama's own policies will take decades to implement?

Subsidizing corn to run our SUVs, rather than to feed the country? Has he been to the grocery store lately $$$$$ ? McCain does not support these subsidies or the shameless pandering to the Midwest.

I'm also waiting for Mr. Obama to announce his windfall profits tax on the financial and pharmecutical industries, whose profit margins have consistently topped energy companies. How does Mr. Obama decide who is making too much money?

[BVS]

Originally Posted by Bluer White

So Mr. Obama criticizes McCain because it would take years to develop offshore drilling, but Obama's own policies will take decades to implement?

Why are you comparing fuel use with alternative power? Nothing is going to happen over night, but one is a step forward, the other is a step sideways...

[Dreadsox]

Originally Posted by deep

The problem with electric cars are that the batteries are about half the weight of the car and run down too quick.

A lighter more powerful battery makes electric cars viable.


as for their two plans

here is an article from the Christian Science Monitor

I have NO complaints about my PRIUS.

[Bluer White]

Originally Posted by BonoVoxSupastar

Why are you comparing fuel use with alternative power? Nothing is going to happen over night, but one is a step forward, the other is a step sideways...

Why am I comparing them? Because this is what the candidates are discussing. Mr. Obama is saying "NO, WE CAN'T!" to many different options. Drilling offshore, clean coal, nuclear power, etc. "NO, WE CAN'T!"

Mr. Obama is saying "YES, WE CAN!" to delivering subsidies which inevitably go to rich multinational corporations in the Midwest, to grow corn. To run our vehicles rather than to feed us. "YES, WE CAN!" to coercing auto companies into increased fuel mileage standards, while the free market and consumers are already responding to this issue much earlier than Mr. Obama.

"YES, WE CAN!" to punititive taxes on energy companies, who provide us with a vital resource, and operate in a world oil market, including booming economies like China and India. While other American industries are earning much higher profit margins than energy companies, we should levy additional taxes on big oil? Shouldn't we encourage more exploration, more innovation, more anything that would keep this economy moving?

[BVS]

Originally Posted by Bluer White

Shouldn't we encourage more exploration, more innovation, more anything that would keep this economy moving?

Yes. So why are we pushing to set up a decade long program for offshore drilling? How is that exploring or innovative?

[Dusty Bottoms]

Originally Posted by BonoVoxSupastar

Where does McCain spell out anything?



How does he plan on "encouraging" our market?

Originally Posted by BonoVoxSupastar

Yes. So why are we pushing to set up a decade long program for offshore drilling? How is that exploring or innovative?

Because current prices are being driven by speculation. If you can guarantee a greater supply in the not so distant future (within a decade), then you can help curb some of this speculation and at least provide for some short term relief while funding the R&D teams to develop something more efficient a couple decades from now.

Again, I want to vote for Obama, but his lack of substance on the energy issue has me worried. McCain has outlined a plan, that while isn't perfect, is something of substance that I think is a step in the right direction.

[BVS]

Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms

Because current prices are being driven by speculation. If you can guarantee a greater supply in the not so distant future (within a decade), then you can help curb some of this speculation and at least provide for some short term relief while funding the R&D teams to develop something more efficient a couple decades from now.

Again, I want to vote for Obama, but his lack of substance on the energy issue has me worried. McCain has outlined a plan, that while isn't perfect, is something of substance that I think is a step in the right direction.

If a decade is considered short term when it comes to current prices then we are screwed.

Secondly, how are we guaranteed lower prices? I see no provisions saying we're not going to sell at world price, you people are kidding yourselves thinking that is the answer.

[maycocksean]

The thing is McCain's supposedly clear-cut plan for what how he's "going to deal" with the energy crisis is really just campaign promises. There's only so much he CAN do anyway--he has to work with Congress.

[Dreadsox]

Originally Posted by maycocksean

The thing is McCain's supposedly clear-cut plan for what how he's "going to deal" with the energy crisis is really just campaign promises. There's only so much he CAN do anyway--he has to work with Congress.

And I would say he is the more experienced candidate at working with Congress. Your statement is true for both of the candidates.

[deep]

Originally Posted by Dreadsox

I have NO complaints about my PRIUS.

Everybody I know is extremely satisfied with their Prius.

I have not heard one regret.

They are hybrids, so they require less batteries than an all electric, carbon neutral car.

McCain $300,000,000. prize for the killer app, a light weight- high power battery can give us a great benefit. That and the nuclear power plants are very practical in moving us off petroleum and towards carbon neutral.

The repeal of the Federal moratorium on off-shore drilling. Would put it in the hands of the States. It would be up to the will of the people in the States.

[maycocksean]

Originally Posted by Dreadsox

And I would say he is the more experienced candidate at working with Congress. Your statement is true for both of the candidates.

I wouldn't dispute either statement. McCain has shown a willingness to cross the aisle in his years in the Senate. However, Obama has also demonstrated a willingness to do so as well--after all this is a guy that has talked about having Republicans on his cabinet. McCain has done it longer yes, but for me to vote for McCain I'd have to be convinced--among other things--that Obama was utterly incapable or highly unlikely to have the skills to work with Congress. If someone would care to make that argument, I'd be interested to hear it.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by Bluer White

So Mr. Obama criticizes McCain because it would take years to develop offshore drilling, but Obama's own policies will take decades to implement?

Mr. Obama's policies are long-run sustainable, whereas Mr. McCain's are not. fossil fuels are not sustainable. they are finite.


[q]Subsidizing corn to run our SUVs, rather than to feed the country? Has he been to the grocery store lately $$$$$ ? McCain does not support these subsidies or the shameless pandering to the Midwest.[/q]


while i do believe that Obama is a bit too close to Big Corn formy taste, this misunderstands corn subsidies work. food isn't expensive because American farmers can't make enough, rather, they make far, far too much.

I'm also waiting for Mr. Obama to announce his windfall profits tax on the financial and pharmecutical industries, whose profit margins have consistently topped energy companies. How does Mr. Obama decide who is making too much money?

this is a good question, but it seems like taxes are a more realistic plan than McCain's glorified science fair.