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Old 02-03-2002, 01:16 PM   #61
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hey dano quite a can o'worms you oppened up huh?! bubba, as for the notion that there is only one truth---WTH? if a child is raised in an abusive environment and lives in constant fear for his safety he will grow to believe the world is a dangerous place. another child lives with love, support and respect grows to believe the world is a wonderful place. which is truth?
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Old 02-03-2002, 04:30 PM   #62
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I'm not even going to get into this discussion. But I would like to bring this to your attention:

Achtung Bubba said:
Quote:
Michael Moore, a man who is an extremist on ANYONE'S scale.
And then in response to melon's "pathetic" explanation of why Rush is seen as a right-wing extremist, Achtung Bubba said:
Quote:
As arrogant as some people in this forum think I am, at least I provide something more substantial when I make such a broad claim.
I would just like to point out that, Achtung Bubba, in the way you feel melon's assertion was "pathetic", I have not seen any "substantial" proof for your claim either, nor for the claim that Moore is an "idiot." If you want others to provide for you sound facts, then why not provide statistics of the "anybodies" who believe Moore is an extremist, and also maybe some IQ tests/scores to exhibit the "idiocy" of Moore. It cuts both ways.
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Old 02-03-2002, 05:33 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally posted by Achtung Bubba:
Oh, THAT'S your evidence? Pathetic.
You are a laugh a minute, Bubba.

Quote:
I nailed you on this one, Melon, and I don't think you're able to admit.
You are pathetic. I'm not trying to make this out into some macho contest, and I honestly don't give a fuck about who "wins." Reading the consensus of most of the messages here, I wouldn't say that you've won; it's just that your responses are so ridiculous that they are unanswerable--much like Rush's own rhetoric. How many times and in how many manners can I reiterate that those rating statistics are misleading? Even in elementary school, we are taught to question graphs and statistics, but I see you were sleeping during that. You don't care...it's all about ego to you.

And, in typical fashion, we've strayed from the original topic to some dumb ass thread about Rush Limbaugh. I'm tired of arguing to a post. You've obviously got your mind set and opinions formulated, and I don't even know the point of arguing this further. I'm just repeating myself, attempting to knock some sense into you, when you are clearly not receptive to ideas. It's a contest to you--much like our court system, where the object is not to discover truth, but to see who can trick the other side into stumbling. A laugh a minute, but since I'm concerned with finding truth amongst the ruins, I had best start looking elsewhere. I'm finished with this discussion. Period.

If others, besides Bubba, wish to comment in earnest, I'll be happy to respond.

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
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Old 02-03-2002, 11:26 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally posted by Danospano:
Bubba is da man? LOL That's too rich!
Watch out - before you know it, Diamond will be praying for you.
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Old 02-03-2002, 11:39 PM   #65
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I once had respect for bubba. No more.

Get a fuckin grip. Its a fuckin forum not the end of the world. I hope you know you are making yourself look like a complete idiot.

and please dont refer to my first post again...it has been changed!

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Old 02-04-2002, 01:33 AM   #66
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Bubba is as hyperactive, vitriolic and egocentric as a 12 year old and just about as easy to debate with.
Fortunately he's also just as funny. Keep it up Bubba. You're providing a world of entertainment for the rest of us.

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Old 02-04-2002, 03:56 AM   #67
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Bubba is da man? LOL That's too rich!

This could be the last time I try to argue with Bubba. I'm almost completely sure that your thoughts will always be opposite of my own, no matter what the subject matter entails.

Bubba, why is it you miss the point of everything anyone says? You nit-pick details to the point of the ridiculous and build your argument on those lame insignificant facts.

Michael Moore is not God. I know that. Neither are you, and neither are your idols and/or role models.

You said that there's only one truth. We can all agree on that. But the problem with finding the truth of humanity's actions is that the truth can be distorted to the point where no one can distinguish truth from BS. That's why you should take Moore's bias position and mix it with the bias opinions of Rush Limbaugh, George W. Bush, Kenny Lay and all those other people who are trying to tell you what to think. I can understand why Moore would imbelish details to fit his argument, but more importantly I know that the Bush Administration is just as prone to those antics. The difference between the Michael Moore's of the world and Washington's top politicians is that one is merely an investigative commentator and the other is the most power group in the world. Who stands to gain more power by telling lies? If you said politicians, you're right.

Have I made my point?
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Old 02-04-2002, 10:52 AM   #68
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A few things:

1. The above message from Matthew Page is pretty mean, but looking back at this whole thread, I'd have to say that Bubba comes across as pretty mean himself, and it seems to make a lot of other people get mean. Don't be mean. Be nice.

2. Are we really arguing about who really has the most popular talk-radio show? Shouldn't that be discussed in Lemonade Stand, along with "which is the king of NBC sitcoms, Friends or Will & Grace?"

3.
Quote:
Originally posted by Danospano:
I haven't read all of the responses, but I looked over the first dozen and it seems like we are still divided into two groups. One group is composed of 80sU2isBest and to the greatest extent, Achung Bubba. This group believes that everything that Michael Moore states is an exageration or a ignorant, partisan remark. I suppose if Michael Moore believed the world was round, they'd disagree because he's Michael Moore, huh? Then there's the rest of us, who read all opinions and take truth from all perspectives. We know who we are, and we are better people because of this.
Did anyone read my post? It kind of took a while to do, and I was hoping to get some comments. Anyway, which category am I in? I'd be considered a conservative here, but my name isn't 80's or Bubba, so I'm not sure if I'm in that group. I tried to make it clear in my post that I don't believe everything Moore writes an ignorant partisan remark, but that his writing is so full of partisan remarks that the facts are totally lost on me. I often say the same thing about Rush.
So am I in with "the rest of us"? Am I a better person too? I don't know "who we are", so I must not be in that group either. This is just like the playground in 3rd grade...always the last one to be picked to be on a team.....
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Old 02-04-2002, 11:49 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spiral_Staircase:
Did anyone read my post? It kind of took a while to do, and I was hoping to get some comments.
I read your response, Spiral_Staircase, and I wish it had gotten the attention it deserves; unfortunately, like many great posts in this forum, it fell victim to a melon vs. Achtung Bubba venom battle.

I would like to see what Moore's followers have to say in reponse to your original thread.

I must say that it is interesting how "condescending" posts are tolerated from one side but not the other. One way street, once again.

~U2Alabama
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Old 02-04-2002, 12:28 PM   #70
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Spiral -

You had a great response. After reading Moore's article and being entertained and informed - it was nice to see your post with some of the "other side of story" remarks. I haven't really paid attention to the whole Enron scandal until I read Moore's piece (sad as that may sound). Although I like Moore for his entertaining way of providing information, I do realize that there is always more to the story.

You stated your opinions about the piece - and I thought it was a great post. I believe that no one responded to your post because Bubba followed up with (and I paraphrase) "Everyone who likes Moore is an idiot - everyone who likes Rush is not an idiot." And it went down from there.

[This message has been edited by zonelistener (edited 02-04-2002).]
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Old 02-04-2002, 01:15 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram:
I would just like to point out that, Achtung Bubba, in the way you feel melon's assertion was "pathetic", I have not seen any "substantial" proof for your claim either, nor for the claim that Moore is an "idiot." If you want others to provide for you sound facts, then why not provide statistics of the "anybodies" who believe Moore is an extremist, and also maybe some IQ tests/scores to exhibit the "idiocy" of Moore. It cuts both ways.
True, I haven't provided proof in this thread, because if I restated observations I made in other threads, nothing new would be said. And I *have* given such proof, many times before in this forum:

Here you go.

Here's another.

And another.

And one more.

In summary, Moore equated the terrorists of 9/11 with the United States itself; in one article, he compares 9/11 to Nicaragua and even the tragic shooting at Kent State (an absurd comparison). He further implied that the U.S. is responsible for AND DESERVED the attacks.

He's an extremist because he blamed the United States for 9/11 - and he was one of only four public figures that I know of that did that: Michael Moore and Noam Chomsky on the extreme left, Pat Roberson and Jerry Falwell on the extreme right. Mainstream news (Time, the NY Times, the Wall Street Journal, CNN, FOX News, ABC, etc.) DIDN'T blame the United States. Conservative publications like the National Review and the American Spectator DIDN'T. And even liberal commentators from the New Republic and the Nation DIDN'T.

Becuase he has said what so FEW others said, he's clearly an extremist. His view is that far from the mainstream.

Further, he's an idiot because he honestly believes that the American system of capitalism is evil (as is America itself, as he often implies) and that it lead directly and inexorably to 9/11.

Now that I've reasserted that I do, in fact, present proof and logic to my assertions, I think I'm have the privelege of demanding the same from others.

Anything else?
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Old 02-04-2002, 04:37 PM   #72
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One more thing:

This is absurd.

1. In my FIRST reply to this thread, I say that Moore's an idiot, but I also admit that I didn't back up my claim (though I said that I might "yet respond in detail to this shit").

2. Melon then points out that I didn't back up my claim as if that's major news, when I clearly said the same thing in (1).

3. I then go into great detail why I dislike the article at the top of this thread.

4. During the exchange over my points against Moore, melon makes a pretty broad statement about Rush Limbaugh's decline in the view of the "general consensus".

5. I don't believe melon has any great evidence to back up his claim, so I ask for such evidence.

6. Anitram then quotes (3), in which I claim Moore is an extremist. She makes the point that I can't ask melon to prove his claims, since I don't offer any proof to my claims that Moore is both an extremist and an idiot.

7. I assert that I have thoroughly backed up those claims in previous threads. To demonstrate that point, I include links to four other threads and a summary of my points.

8. Ormus then reposts melon's statement from (2) and the summary of my reply in (7) to re-emphasize the claim that I apparently never addressed Moore's latest article, which I clearly did in (3).


I grant that it's unreasonable to expect Anitram to know that I had already expressed my opions on Moore in previous threads. For this reason, I was quite civilized in addressing her question, going so far as to dig up the old threads and post links to them.

But that's no excuse for taking that reply and suggesting I'm harping on old issues and not addressing the original article, which I did - AT LENGTH - in this thread.

Is it simply too much to expect you people to at least read the entire thread before you start yelling that I haven't addressed everything?
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Old 02-04-2002, 04:51 PM   #73
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Note to Bubba: Ormus IS melon. Don't you remember that infamous thread several months ago where Ormus revealed himself as another incarnation of melon?

B-T-W, I would say you gave an accurate chronology of events in the previous post.

~U2Alabama
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Old 02-04-2002, 04:56 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally posted by Achtung Bubba:
I grant that it's unreasonable to expect Anitram to know that I had already expressed my opions on Moore in previous threads. For this reason, I was quite civilized in addressing her question, going so far as to dig up the old threads and post links to them.
Yes, you were civilized. Thank you.

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Old 02-04-2002, 05:16 PM   #75
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Hello. You probably didn't know this about me, but I'm filthy rich and prepared to pay everyone who doesn't respond to this thread anymore 100 via PayPal.
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Old 02-04-2002, 07:08 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram:
Yes, you were civilized. Thank you.

You're welcome; and I'm sorry to everyone if I wasn't as civilized as I could have been or should have been.

Well, almost everyone...
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Old 02-04-2002, 07:11 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Bama:
Note to Bubba: Ormus IS melon. Don't you remember that infamous thread several months ago where Ormus revealed himself as another incarnation of melon?

B-T-W, I would say you gave an accurate chronology of events in the previous post.

~U2Alabama
Wow.

Actually, busy as I was at school, I failed to notice that thread completely. I honestly had no idea. Thank you for pointing that out; I owe you one. BIG TIME.

(I hope you don't mind, but I found and closed that thread, preventing anyone from altering some fairly damning evidence.)

Here's the thread and the confession, from October 28, 2001:

Quote:
Originally posted by melon:
Ormus was accidentally revealed. I wanted him to be my secret name, as I found that some of the more serious posts I used under Melon, there was already an inherent attitude associated with that name; hence, people would judge the post on the basis of who wrote it. Ormus was simply created to be my escape from Melon; to be, perhaps, a "regular Interferencer." Unfortunately, I got a bit sloppy, and accidentally got Melon and Ormus messed up. If I could have kept him a secret, I still would have, but I guess the moral is that you cannot escape yourself and expect to keep it a secret forever.
So, that changes the chronology A BIT:

8. Melon then disguises himself as Ormus and reposts his own statement from (2) and the summary of my reply in (7) to re-emphasize his claim that I apparently never addressed Moore's latest article, which I clearly did in (3), and to which he clearly responded in (4).

That is, Melon asked me to elaborate. I did, and he responded. He later disguised himself to assert that I never elaborated at all - an assertion about me that he knew to be false.


Melon:

You mentioned in this thread that I behave like "the court system, where the object is not to discover truth, but to see who can trick the other side into stumbling". Well, if I were anything like a court, or if this were in a legal setting, I would have a very strong case for slander.

My assertion that you might occasionally knowingly misrepresent what I say is clearly true.

As far as I'm concerned, your status as a civilized, deliberate member of the community of debate and discussion at this forum is void; it's worthless.

You have acted like the lowest of the low: a flamer, a troll, and a punk.

Thus, the request for you to leave me alone is no longer a request between people with incompatable debating styles and differing points of view. It's now a promise:

Quit harassing me, or I will ask Elvis for the kind permission to rid you from this forum.

[This message has been edited by Achtung Bubba (edited 02-04-2002).]
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Old 02-04-2002, 08:18 PM   #78
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General Bubba,

The handle under which melon posted that reply is irrelevant. It is no secret at all that melon is Ormus for anyone who pays attention to the forum at all. He has made that known ever since the incident that Bama brought up. I thought you knew that too because you were also involved in that previous discussion.The handle that melon posted under does not change the issue. Melon is not a troll. He is a veteran member of Interference and he has made many valuable contributions to Free Your Mind. You just don't like him because he is the only one who is not afraid to stand up to you. You're making a big deal about nothing. If it is a crime to create an alternate handle in order to escape the preconcieved notions that others have developed about the original one then I guess you better get rid of Knute Rockne too while you are at it.

Don't abuse your power as an administrator by threatening to ban someone essentially because they disagree with you and aren't afraid to say it. Melon is not harrassing you at all. That is ridiculous.

Quote:
Originally posted by Achtung Bubba:
As far as I'm concerned, your status as a civilized, deliberate member of the community of debate and discussion at this forum is void; it's worthless.
Thats funny, I could say the same exact thing about you now. You're just a big egotistical bully!

Are you going to threaten to ban me now too????


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Old 02-04-2002, 08:35 PM   #79
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Originally posted by Calluna:
If it is a crime to create an alternate handle in order to escape the preconcieved notions that others have developed about the original one then I guess you better get rid of Knute Rockne too while you are at it.

Knute Rockne is Greatness manifested.. How Dare you think otherwise.. Just admit to the Irish Greatness and Amazingly awe Inspiring mystique of the Dome.. I'm sorry.. Guys like Bear Bryant just doesn't have the Clout that our legendary Saint Carries. I for one am glad to see the Irish Coaches flourishing here in FYM.

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Old 02-04-2002, 10:37 PM   #80
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Calluna (or Melon, since you sound awfully defensive about poor, sweet, innocent Melon):

I did a search today to confirm that Melon is Ormus. Since you said that I knew Melon was Ormus, I looked again.

You are right: on October 11th, I apparently did figure out that the two names were controlled by one person.

But is ALSO true that my memory is not perfect. I do not keep tabs on the many names of Melon, Deathbear, ********, and whoever else can't own up to their own comments. It is ALSO the case that Melon did not publicize the multiple names beyond that thread and one or two others, and (unlike some split personalities) does not sign his posts consistently - "melon" for all the names, for example.

It should be clear to anyone who thinks that I'm being the least bit honest that, at the time of THIS thread, I honestly did not know that melon was Ormus. It should also be clear - by the fact that Ormus asserted something melon knew to be otherwise - that melon/Ormus was being deceitful.

If it isn't clear, go ahead and call me a liar, because you're certainly insinuating that I am.


Beyond that, I did not call melon a troll. I said he ACTED like a troll, and I stand by that evaluation. He misled this forum and misled me, specifically and intentionally, in order to incite me to anger. That sure as HELL sounds like troll behavior to me, and if ANYONE starts doing that - veteran or not - they risk punishment from the Admins. There are no exceptions, and there SHOULD be no exceptions.


I'm doing this and I don't like him "because he is the only one who is not afraid to stand up to [me]"? That's bullshit, and I think you know that.

Look at this thread alone: Danospano and doctorwho disagree with me, and make it known. Do I become uncivil around them? NO.


If it is a crime to create an alternate handle in order to escape the preconcieved notions that others have developed about the original one then I guess you better get rid of Knute Rockne too while you are at it.

Are you slow or something? I did not say it's a crime to create an alias "to escape preconcieved notions". This has nothing to do with "escape". I'm upset because, and I quote, he "disguised himself to assert that I never elaborated at all - an assertion about me that he knew to be false."

THAT is what I have the problem with. He's using his alias not to "escape", but to commit character assassination, to act like I didn't say something, when I already had - AND HE ALREADY FUCKING RESPONDED TO IT!


What is so difficult about this concept, and how does this NOT qualify as harassing me? Through "melon" and now through at least one alias HE IS LYING ABOUT WHAT I HAVE AND HAVE NOT SAID.

But this is apparently not a big deal, huh? In these discussions about relatively important issues of the day, true representations of viewpoints is essential. It is IMPOSSIBLE for someone to agree or disagree with me if they don't accurately know what I believe.

And it is now clear that Melon has been interfering with the expression of my viewpoint that I have been trying terribly hard to build. It's clear he doing so deliberately, and doing so knowing that he is lying.

Not harassing me at all? What do you know?


Further, I did not threaten to ban melon - I threatened to ask Elvis permission to boot melon; there is a huge difference.

It'd be nice if you actually read my post thoroughly enough to notice the difference.


Finally, I'm not being a "a big egotistical bully". I'm FUCKING DEFENDING MYSELF from slander. I've tried twice to convince melon to just leave me the fuck alone, and he hasn't. I now KNOW he's messing with me intentionally, and I will no longer put up with it.

It is no secret at all that I am not arbitrary with these decisions for anyone who pays attention to the forum at all. I'm not threatening Melon on a whim (or without the full intention to carry through if needed).

And I'm not planning on issuing the same promise to anyone else. I will tell you this, though: keep insinuating I'm a liar, and keep calling me a bully, and I WILL start noticing.
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