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Old 07-11-2010, 06:01 PM   #861
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The Committee Chair is a good place to start .. When the rest get back from visiting Fort Worth and the Alalmo, I am sure we will hear more. I am really still trying to get a hold of the Glenn Beck rally you went to at the Alamo. Were you in the New York or the Ft Worth Alamo rally ?

Did you get the clip" Beck doesnt like" having an openly gay conessman? " I bet you there isn't one. He doesnt like Barney frank, if that is who you are refering to . He doesnt start with Openly gay congressman Barney Franks. He says Congressman Barney frank.

Did you watch the 3 video's of him saying" he didnt like Bush and Obama , Republicans and Democrats ?

Seems like reading the New York times.... .

Hey Bud, the Alamo is in San Antonio.
You seem to confuse very easily, I was at the rally in San Antonio with Glenn. The guy with the sign was at a Forth Worth rally, so saying you saw him there would be a lie.

I have no clue what you're talking about with Barney Frank, I wasn't talking about Glenn specifically, I was talking about the Tea Party in general. Seen many signs and heard many folks reference Barney. AND yes Glenn has mentioned that we are in a cultural war.
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Old 07-11-2010, 08:43 PM   #862
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You seem to confuse very easily

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Old 07-11-2010, 09:04 PM   #863
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Went out of town over the weekend and ran into a friend that I haven't seen in two years. She's suffering from a degenarative disease that is causing her to go blind. She has an extreme case, her siblings have it but not nearly as far along. Her doctors here have told her there's nothing she can do short of an eye transplant, which she doesn't qualify for, but found a specialist in Canda that can treat her and prolong her sight. This is her 2nd round of treatments.

She was pretty dead set against the idea of anything resembling socialized medicine, but was telling all of us this weekend that most of what she was sold about the Canadian system were lies.
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Old 07-11-2010, 10:05 PM   #864
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if only we had tort reform and competitive insurance plans across state lines, *then* i'm sure she'd be fine.
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Old 07-17-2010, 11:13 PM   #865
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For Maycocksean.

Here is a recent article by a House Democrat on why he didn't vote for the health care bill. I don't agree with him 100% but that's OK and he gives a good summary of how we got here, why the just passed bill will only exacerbate the problem and in which direction we should have gone. And could have gone with a bipartisan majority, in fact, with the proper leadership.

Be happy to discuss any of it with you in detail if you're interested.

Real Health-Care Reform - Jim Marshall - National Review Online
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Old 07-18-2010, 10:51 AM   #866
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For Maycocksean.

Here is a recent article by a House Democrat on why he didn't vote for the health care bill. I don't agree with him 100% but that's OK and he gives a good summary of how we got here, why the just passed bill will only exacerbate the problem and in which direction we should have gone. And could have gone with a bipartisan majority, in fact, with the proper leadership.

Be happy to discuss any of it with you in detail if you're interested.

Real Health-Care Reform - Jim Marshall - National Review Online

I would basically agree with that, except this part regarding defensive medicine. If someone wants a ct-scan, and they scream for a ct scan , and a Dr doesn't do it, and cancer shows up in 6 months. Lawsuit. His measure of cost for trail lawyers, for everyone, and increase in malpractice insurance increases, is way too low.

"Over decades, health care’s distorted third-party-payer incentives have caused providers to do more and more tests, procedures, and consultations. This “more and more” has become the accepted standard of care."

Because of lawsuits. It is that simple.

Go to Alabama, or La, Ms or Ak , and try to find a neo Natal specialist. You won't find a single one, because the "king of Tort courts) in those states, you award parents a million dollars or more, because the baby doesnt have blue eyes let alone if mom was smoking crack during the pregnency.

It is a bigger problem than people understand.

Also, 60 Billion in Medicare fraud. That number is way to low.

But the gist of what he is saying, I agree with.


Government can't run a train, it can't run healthcare.
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Old 07-18-2010, 10:52 AM   #867
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Went out of town over the weekend and ran into a friend that I haven't seen in two years. She's suffering from a degenarative disease that is causing her to go blind. She has an extreme case, her siblings have it but not nearly as far along. Her doctors here have told her there's nothing she can do short of an eye transplant, which she doesn't qualify for, but found a specialist in Canda that can treat her and prolong her sight. This is her 2nd round of treatments.

She was pretty dead set against the idea of anything resembling socialized medicine, but was telling all of us this weekend that most of what she was sold about the Canadian system were lies.

what disease is this that they can't treat in the USA ?
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Old 07-18-2010, 11:01 AM   #868
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For Maycocksean.

Here is a recent article by a House Democrat on why he didn't vote for the health care bill. I don't agree with him 100% but that's OK and he gives a good summary of how we got here, why the just passed bill will only exacerbate the problem and in which direction we should have gone. And could have gone with a bipartisan majority, in fact, with the proper leadership.

Be happy to discuss any of it with you in detail if you're interested.

Real Health-Care Reform - Jim Marshall - National Review Online
Excellent article, INDY. It might surprise you to find I do agree with him almost 100%. The first paragraph captures exactly how I feel about the current health care reform law. A lot of my objections in these threads have been more to the partisan hyperbole, not to legitimate concerns.

I too feel that the third-party system is the primary cause of the escalating cost of health care. I like the idea of health care savings plans (and I seem to recall you're a fan of them too). I wonder if we'll be able to make the move that the Jim Marshall advocates though, whether people will be willing to do it. I think many Americans who have health insurance have gotten used to the "overcare" approach and would be nervous about giving it up.

I also agree with Irvine that if we're going to reduce the deficit, we really have to look at the areas that are costing the most--defense, social security, medicare and make some hard choices there.

What I've always been interested in is a balanced and thoughtful approach to the issues, which is a lot drier than the screaming "Obamacare!" and "socialism" and "Tea Baggers!" but would be far more productive.

What parts of the article did you disagree with, and what parts did you like?
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Old 07-18-2010, 11:30 AM   #869
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Excellent article, INDY. It might surprise you to find I do agree with him almost 100%. The first paragraph captures exactly how I feel about the current health care reform law. A lot of my objections in these threads have been more to the partisan hyperbole, not to legitimate concerns.

I too feel that the third-party system is the primary cause of the escalating cost of health care. I like the idea of health care savings plans (and I seem to recall you're a fan of them too). I wonder if we'll be able to make the move that the Jim Marshall advocates though, whether people will be willing to do it. I think many Americans who have health insurance have gotten used to the "overcare" approach and would be nervous about giving it up.

I also agree with Irvine that if we're going to reduce the deficit, we really have to look at the areas that are costing the most--defense, social security, medicare and make some hard choices there.

What I've always been interested in is a balanced and thoughtful approach to the issues, which is a lot drier than the screaming "Obamacare!" and "socialism" and "Tea Baggers!" but would be far more productive.

What parts of the article did you disagree with, and what parts did you like?
" too feel that the third-party system is the primary cause of the escalating cost of health care."

Wouldn't the Government take the place of the 3rd party under the current plan? ? Yes, a government agency is to be created. So they are the new 3rd party billing system . The Post office, Amtrack , 2,000 toilet seats, military contracts, everything the Government does, cost more.

You think getting approval for a CT scan is tough with insurance, think how tough it will be in a Government agency larger than all branches of Military, and everything you can think of, combined.

medicare- Wasteful fraud. The only way to lower the cost beyong reducing fraud, is to ration. There is no other way. Your mamogram is now age 50 is a good example. Was 40 last year.

social security,- The trust fund for social security was funded and in good shape, until politicians, Bush and this Congress, raided it and left IOUs. Now it is in serious trouble. You trust them with your well being in health care? They are going to run it cheaper? Impossible.

Will they borrow against the medical fund in the same fashion? Nothing to stop them.

These are 3 of the Tea Party issues. They don't have many. That's the real Tea Party

Medical savings accounts are a great idea, but your forgetting the fact that this bill, was created to control the healthcare $$.
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Old 07-18-2010, 11:38 AM   #870
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Went out of town over the weekend and ran into a friend that I haven't seen in two years. She's suffering from a degenarative disease that is causing her to go blind. She has an extreme case, her siblings have it but not nearly as far along. Her doctors here have told her there's nothing she can do short of an eye transplant, which she doesn't qualify for, but found a specialist in Canda that can treat her and prolong her sight. This is her 2nd round of treatments.

She was pretty dead set against the idea of anything resembling socialized medicine, but was telling all of us this weekend that most of what she was sold about the Canadian system were lies.
I have a friend who is a Pediatric Cardiologist who works in Toronto. She used to work here in the States , but her husband was transfered , so she went. She is an expert in her field.

2 things really bother her about her job, and experience in the Canadien system.

The time it takes to get what here would be basic diagnostics , and the second would be that she knows, that many times she has to do a timely procedure to save a kids life, takes an agaonizing , stressfull time, and she knows the kids is dying more everyday, before she can get approval for the suite. The wait is a long time.

Want to see how to do what everyone wants as far as medicine, Study the Cleveland Clinic Foundation. Best place in the world, and ANYONE and everyone gets treated, regardless of ability to pay.

It is the model of how this should work. Even Obama said that. Yet, he goes in a different direction

Study it,it is a fantastic model of how to deliever healthcare, and they did it, complete change in less than 5 years .
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Old 07-18-2010, 12:18 PM   #871
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Excellent article, INDY. It might surprise you to find I do agree with him almost 100%. The first paragraph captures exactly how I feel about the current health care reform law. A lot of my objections in these threads have been more to the partisan hyperbole, not to legitimate concerns.

I too feel that the third-party system is the primary cause of the escalating cost of health care. I like the idea of health care savings plans (and I seem to recall you're a fan of them too). I wonder if we'll be able to make the move that the Jim Marshall advocates though, whether people will be willing to do it. I think many Americans who have health insurance have gotten used to the "overcare" approach and would be nervous about giving it up.

I also agree with Irvine that if we're going to reduce the deficit, we really have to look at the areas that are costing the most--defense, social security, medicare and make some hard choices there.

What I've always been interested in is a balanced and thoughtful approach to the issues, which is a lot drier than the screaming "Obamacare!" and "socialism" and "Tea Baggers!" but would be far more productive.

What parts of the article did you disagree with, and what parts did you like?
I would agree with benji that the Congressman "low-balls" the effect the threat of lawsuits has on the cost of care. I can tell you that in a hospital the standard of care is not only the professional standard but also, unfortunately, what will be paid for and what we need in case of lawsuit. And you can be assured that the cost of malpractice insurance and lawsuit settlements is there on your bill, you just can't see it. Many specialties have been hit hard by frivolous suits as well, (obstetricians, vaccine makers, hospital supplies) which hurts competition, causes shortages and increases prices.

The congressman also fails to mention that part of the reason we pay more is we get more. The newest procedures, drugs and equipment is found here. We get the cutting edge stuff but we pay for it. Also, our drugs cost more because other countries have price controls forcing companies to make the bulk of their profits here. Fair? No.
The rest of the world benefits from our system (eventually getting the new stuff with little of the R&D costs and at below market prices) and as usual they just don't realize how much. When we implement cost controls where are tomorrow's miracle drugs going to come from?

Here's what I really like:
Quote:
Most Americans, however, should participate in a sufficiently robust private market for health-care services, a market that settles on a price and also sets the expected standard of care. Today, there is no such market for health care
Today, only 10 - 15% of health care cost is paid for out of pocket where the patient has some idea of the cost, the rest by third-party payers. Until we change the incentives in the system, get that ratio reversed and separate "health care" from "health coverage" we will continue down the same road.

Glad you liked the article.
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Old 07-18-2010, 03:11 PM   #872
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what disease is this that they can't treat in the USA ?
I cannot remember what it's called. But it's something her and her siblings have, it skips every other generation. She has it the worse though, and she's younger than I am.

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Originally Posted by Benji2112 View Post

Want to see how to do what everyone wants as far as medicine, Study the Cleveland Clinic Foundation. Best place in the world, and ANYONE and everyone gets treated, regardless of ability to pay.

It is the model of how this should work. Even Obama said that. Yet, he goes in a different direction

Study it,it is a fantastic model of how to deliever healthcare, and they did it, complete change in less than 5 years .
I've askd you before if you could post anything about the business model, I can find a lot about the clinic, but can't find much on the business model per se.
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Old 07-19-2010, 10:57 AM   #873
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In theory, I agree with this. Practically, I'm not so sure. Look, I grew up with out health insurance. We just didn't go to the doctor. I never had annual checkups, never went to the dentist even once as a child. We relied on God to care for us, and He did. My mom who is 63 years old, self-employed, and currently has a lump in her breast is uninsured. I think she should get it looked at, she doesn't want to because she can't afford it. I actually went online to find out what it would cost her to get a mammogram (thinking maybe my wife and I could pick up the tab)--$500. A biopsy will run between $1000 and $5000. She doesn't have that kind of money just lying around and neither do I. She says she's had "scares" before and it always turned out to be nothing, and she doesn't have the money any way, so it sounds like she's just going to ignore it and hope it goes away. I'll tell you, INDY, it sucks.

Here's the thing--if you can't afford health costs and you don't have insurance, you simply go without. . .until you can't afford to anymore. At which point the costs are much higher than they would have been. I agree that the concept of insuring "basic maintanence" is not effective, but from experience I can tell you that simply taking away the insurance for those things isn't a realistic solution either.





But isn't the argument that you don't WANT the government using your tax money to cover these poor. If it were up to you, somone like my sister--who is on Medicaid-- is in the hospital tonight 37 weeks pregnant and her platlet count dropping daily for reasons the doctors can't figure out (She's at 40,000 right now), should be out on the streets not stealing your money?

Give me a fucking break.. . .

sorry, everybody. This is just all very real and personal to me right now. It's not just talking heads on TV anymore.
I am very sorry to hear this. Are there any places which will provide free screenings for your mom? Or hospital clinics who will set up an affordable payment plan. She really needs to have that lump evaluated. 80% of the time it is not cancer. But, she shouldn't take that risk and she may be eligible for Medical Assistance. A social worker/financial personnel at a hospital would be able to help with that. If you are in the U.S. I think all states may have a research/teaching hospital who treat patients without insurance. If you live in Maryland. JH Hospital will not deny patients. Regardless of ability to pay and will work something out with your mom. Depending on her income. She may be entitled to more benefits, than she is receiving right now. Perhaps, some help with food and rent.

I understand that you have a lot on your plate right now. I would be feeling exactly the same way. I want your your mom and sister to have the best care.
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Old 07-19-2010, 01:15 PM   #874
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I am very sorry to hear this. Are there any places which will provide free screenings for your mom? Or hospital clinics who will set up an affordable payment plan. She really needs to have that lump evaluated. 80% of the time it is not cancer. But, she shouldn't take that risk and she may be eligible for Medical Assistance. A social worker/financial personnel at a hospital would be able to help with that. If you are in the U.S. I think all states may have a research/teaching hospital who treat patients without insurance. If you live in Maryland. JH Hospital will not deny patients. Regardless of ability to pay and will work something out with your mom. Depending on her income. She may be entitled to more benefits, than she is receiving right now. Perhaps, some help with food and rent.

I understand that you have a lot on your plate right now. I would be feeling exactly the same way. I want your your mom and sister to have the best care.

You Mom was set, all you had to do is pick up the phone and call Kommen. They were waiting for you . You or her never called, and you said it wasn't about money. They wouldn't have charged her anyway.

Wonder who lost out on that block of time for their mamogram? Something to think about. They had a long list to get in.
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Old 07-19-2010, 01:16 PM   #875
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I cannot remember what it's called. But it's something her and her siblings have, it skips every other generation. She has it the worse though, and she's younger than I am.



I've askd you before if you could post anything about the business model, I can find a lot about the clinic, but can't find much on the business model per se.
I asked for a scanned copy. I will have it shortly.
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Old 07-19-2010, 01:20 PM   #876
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You Mom was set, all you had to do is pick up the phone and call Kommen. They were waiting for you . You or her never called, and you said it wasn't about money. They wouldn't have charged her anyway.
Is there a particular reason why you always choose to communicate in this abrasive manner?

And it's Komen. And contrary to your "they're waiting for you" as if they have little better to do with their time, you have to qualify based on an income threshold which is rather low and disqualifies many lower middle class women.

But far be it from me to suggest that you inform yourself prior to choosing to be rude.
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Old 07-19-2010, 01:22 PM   #877
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You Mom was set, all you had to do is pick up the phone and call Kommen. They were waiting for you . You or her never called, and you said it wasn't about money. They wouldn't have charged her anyway.

Wonder who lost out on that block of time for their mamogram? Something to think about. They had a long list to get in.
Is this your bedside manner?

I mean seriously...
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Old 07-19-2010, 03:36 PM   #878
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Just an update.

I'm now here in Florida staying with my mom for the week. I asked her about getting the lump checked, she says shes' not going to. But I'm going to look into Komen and see if I can persuade her. Good news though--my sister gave birth today via C-section. She and baby are fine. Her lump turned out to be nothing. So we're very happy about that. My wife and I are glad that she had the baby while we're here on vacation so we can see him. I can now add "Uncle" to my list of titles! We'll head back over to the hospital to see her and the baby in a little bit.

In defense of Benji, he was very helpful and concerned via PM. I don't know whether anything will come from Komen but I appreciated his interest and concern. I'm not sure why he's been so harsh here in this thread, but I'm not taking it personally--perhaps he felt I was unappreciative of his efforts earlier? At any rate, I just wanted to clarify that.

Edit: Wait, Benji, did you actually call someone at the center and set it up for my mom to be screened? I read your post a second time just now and it almost seems like that's what you were implying. I didn't get that from your PM otherwise I would have had her call right away. I thought you were just giving me the name of an organization I could look up and I fully intended to do that. If actual arrangements had been made I would have followed through immediately.
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Old 07-19-2010, 04:02 PM   #879
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Congrats Uncle!

I am very happy to here that everything went well for your sister.

I am going to post something. I would like your mom to read. I am ten years younger than she is. So, I'm no wet behind the ears, kid.

Dear friend,

I had a breast lump at the age of thirty. I promptly saw a DR. The lump was suspicious because they were unable to "move it." I had my first mamogram and Ultra-sound. Again the lump seemed suspicious because they couldn't get a clear picture. At age thirty, women usually have very dense breast tissue. So, imaging can be more difficult. I was then sent to be examined by a surgeon. He examined me and determined that the lump was found to be nothing more than a benign cyst. But, my point is. If I didn't see the DR. and it would have been breast cancer. I would not be alive nor typing this message. I would not be a grand mom. Please, listen to your family. They love you. And most of all. Your brand new grand child wants you around.

Yours truly,

From another woman who wants to hear all of those grand mom stories. You will be able to share.
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Old 07-19-2010, 04:16 PM   #880
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Congrats Uncle!

I am very happy to here that everything went well for your sister.

I am going to post something. I would like your mom to read. I am ten years younger than she is. So, I'm no wet behind the ears, kid.

Dear friend,

I had a breast lump at the age of thirty. I promptly saw a DR. The lump was suspicious because they were unable to "move it." I had my first mamogram and Ultra-sound. Again the lump seemed suspicious because they couldn't get a clear picture. At age thirty, women usually have very dense breast tissue. So, imaging can be more difficult. I was then sent to be examined by a surgeon. He examined me and determined that the lump was found to be nothing more than a benign cyst. But, my point is. If I didn't see the DR. and it would have been breast cancer. I would not be alive nor typing this message. I would not be a grand mom. Please, listen to your family. They love you. And most of all. Your brand new grand child wants you around.

Yours truly,

From another woman who wants to hear all of those grand mom stories. You will be able to share.
Thanks A Stor. My mom and I are talking about this right now.
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