"Innocent Until Proven Guilty"

melon · 11-16-2002, 03:43 PM

Tell me...do you think this is for real, or is it just a play on words? The fact of the matter is that, societally, we generally declare people guilty immediately upon indictment; and, even if they are acquitted, they are still "guilty" in the eyes of the public.

Your thoughts?

Melon

deep · 11-16-2002, 05:02 PM

I attended a lecture with a well-known judge. He gave a brief history of our legal system. When it was set up there were two ways it could go. Presumption of guilt, where the indited had to proof innocence. Presumption of innocence, where the state had to prove guilt. At that time in England indictments where done in the name of the King, and parties had to prove their innocence.

Both systems have their flaws, the proper verdict may not be arrived at in each system. The founding fathers believed if an individual had to go up against the state, the burden of proving guilt should rest with the state. It was more tolerable to them that a guilty party might elude justice than that the state too easily convict innocent people.

I think they made the right choice.

Today we have some that are guilty being found innocent and even more alarming, innocent people being found guilty.

Your question, the presumption of innocence is a thing of the past.

Laura M · 11-16-2002, 05:10 PM

I think society shouldnt judge ppl so quickly but most of us do

I think the media also plays a huge part in making people look guilty in the eyes of society even if they are innocent

The Wanderer · 11-16-2002, 07:21 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2198228.stm

nbcrusader · 11-16-2002, 10:39 PM

There are a number of elements at play here. There is quite an evidentiary gap between the person who is convicted of a crime and the person who has done something wrong. Acquittal simply means the state has failed to produce a preponderance of the evidence for a crime.

I understand your point of society jumping on a judgment bandwagon, even in the face of acquittal. But we also lose respect for people who avoid conviction on the letter of the law, but trample over the spirit of a law.

Day to day, in the U.S. criminal system, I think the phrase �innocent until proven guilty� holds true.

diamond · 11-16-2002, 10:49 PM

Sometimes I feel Im guilty until somebody comes along and proves my innocence..

been this way my whole life.

diamond

11-16-2002, 03:43 PM	#1
melon ONE love, blood, life Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 11,782 Local Time: 01:03 AM	"Innocent Until Proven Guilty" Tell me...do you think this is for real, or is it just a play on words? The fact of the matter is that, societally, we generally declare people guilty immediately upon indictment; and, even if they are acquitted, they are still "guilty" in the eyes of the public. Your thoughts? Melon __________________

11-16-2002, 05:02 PM	#2
deep Blue Crack Addict Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: A far distance down. Posts: 28,600 Local Time: 10:03 PM	I attended a lecture with a well-known judge. He gave a brief history of our legal system. When it was set up there were two ways it could go. Presumption of guilt, where the indited had to proof innocence. Presumption of innocence, where the state had to prove guilt. At that time in England indictments where done in the name of the King, and parties had to prove their innocence. Both systems have their flaws, the proper verdict may not be arrived at in each system. The founding fathers believed if an individual had to go up against the state, the burden of proving guilt should rest with the state. It was more tolerable to them that a guilty party might elude justice than that the state too easily convict innocent people. I think they made the right choice. Today we have some that are guilty being found innocent and even more alarming, innocent people being found guilty. Your question, the presumption of innocence is a thing of the past. __________________

11-16-2002, 07:21 PM	#4
The Wanderer Kid A Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Holy Roman Empire Posts: 5,271 Local Time: 01:03 AM	how much chance of aquittal do these guys have? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2198228.stm

11-16-2002, 10:49 PM	#6
diamond ONE love, blood, life Join Date: May 2002 Location: Tempe, Az USA Posts: 12,856 Local Time: 11:03 PM	Sometimes I feel Im guilty until somebody comes along and proves my innocence.. been this way my whole life. diamond __________________

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11-16-2002, 05:10 PM	#3
Laura M Blue Crack Addict Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 18,934 Local Time: 08:03 AM	I think society shouldnt judge ppl so quickly but most of us do I think the media also plays a huge part in making people look guilty in the eyes of society even if they are innocent

11-16-2002, 10:39 PM	#5
nbcrusader Blue Crack Addict Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 22,071 Local Time: 10:03 PM	There are a number of elements at play here. There is quite an evidentiary gap between the person who is convicted of a crime and the person who has done something wrong. Acquittal simply means the state has failed to produce a preponderance of the evidence for a crime. I understand your point of society jumping on a judgment bandwagon, even in the face of acquittal. But we also lose respect for people who avoid conviction on the letter of the law, but trample over the spirit of a law. Day to day, in the U.S. criminal system, I think the phrase �innocent until proven guilty� holds true.