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Old 12-29-2011, 01:21 PM   #961
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Don't look now but:

2012 Presidential Matchups - Rasmussen Reports™


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Old 12-29-2011, 01:28 PM   #962
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ok, we are about three days out


so lets predict the Iowa GOP Cauci finish order

here is my best guess:

1. Romney
2. Paul
3. Santorum
4. Gingrich
5. Perry
6. Bachmann
7. Huntsman



1 and 2 could flip

and 3 and 4 could flip

I am very confident I got 5 6 and 7 in the right order.

If this truly was a horse race,
my winnings at the track would be much better.
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Old 12-29-2011, 05:45 PM   #963
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MASON CITY, Iowa -- Mitt Romney on Thursday sought to portray President Barack Obama as out of touch with the struggles of everyday Americans -- a charge he himself has often faced -- by comparing the president to a former French queen who was overthrown during the French Revolution.

"When the president's characterization of our economy was, 'It could be worse,' it reminded me of Marie Antoinette: 'Let them eat cake,'" Romney said, referring to the infamously dismissive remark toward the poor attributed to the queen.

"This is not a time to be talking about, 'It could be worse.' It's a time to recognize that things should be better," Romney said during an interview on his campaign bus with The Huffington Post. "And the president's policies have failed the American people, have led to 25 million people still being out of work. He didn't cause the recession, but he has made it deeper and has made the recovery more tepid and the pain last longer."
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Old 12-29-2011, 06:21 PM   #964
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Obviously, the GOP candidates must show that they are pro-gun.



at Huntsman visiting a gun store.

I did, however, get a chuckle out of Perry's quip at 1:28.
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Old 12-29-2011, 07:02 PM   #965
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MASON CITY, Iowa -- Mitt Romney on Thursday sought to portray President Barack Obama as out of touch with the struggles of everyday Americans -- a charge he himself has often faced -- by comparing the president to a former French queen who was overthrown during the French Revolution.

"When the president's characterization of our economy was, 'It could be worse,' it reminded me of Marie Antoinette: 'Let them eat cake,'" Romney said, referring to the infamously dismissive remark toward the poor attributed to the queen.

"This is not a time to be talking about, 'It could be worse.' It's a time to recognize that things should be better," Romney said during an interview on his campaign bus with The Huffington Post. "And the president's policies have failed the American people, have led to 25 million people still being out of work. He didn't cause the recession, but he has made it deeper and has made the recovery more tepid and the pain last longer."
So, the Obama message of 2008 "Hope & Change" and "Change you can belive in" has now dwindled to or been replaced with "It could be worse?"

Please say this isn't so....
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Old 12-29-2011, 07:45 PM   #966
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"When the president's characterization of our economy was, 'It could be worse,' it reminded me of Marie Antoinette: 'Let them eat cake,'" Romney said, referring to the infamously dismissive remark toward the poor attributed to the queen.
Right, "attributed" but easily disproven.

President Obama did say however, “Things aren’t as bad as they could have been, this could have been a catastrophe, in that sense it [the stimulus] worked.”
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Old 12-29-2011, 07:50 PM   #967
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Which is true.
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Old 12-29-2011, 09:31 PM   #968
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I dunno ... bringing up old-timey French queens? Sounds like stuff only elite folk knows about.

But I can see how "it could be worse," while true, could rub someone the wrong way, if they've been hit hard by all the crap raining down around them.
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Old 12-29-2011, 09:32 PM   #969
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MASON CITY, Iowa -- Mitt Romney on Thursday sought to portray President Barack Obama as out of touch with the struggles of everyday Americans -- a charge he himself has often faced -- by comparing the president to a former French queen who was overthrown during the French Revolution.

"When the president's characterization of our economy was, 'It could be worse,' it reminded me of Marie Antoinette: 'Let them eat cake,'" Romney said, referring to the infamously dismissive remark toward the poor attributed to the queen.

"This is not a time to be talking about, 'It could be worse.' It's a time to recognize that things should be better," Romney said during an interview on his campaign bus with The Huffington Post. "And the president's policies have failed the American people, have led to 25 million people still being out of work. He didn't cause the recession, but he has made it deeper and has made the recovery more tepid and the pain last longer."
And his plan is...what, then, to fix that? This is the same guy who infamously said, "Corporations are people" a number of months back. But clearly he's totally "in touch" .

This story's from my town-if I weren't so bogged down with work, I would have liked to get a chance to attend that meeting, lob a question or two his way. I think Santorum was here the other day, too.
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Old 12-30-2011, 02:58 PM   #970
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Which is true.
Ok, it woulda been worse but could it have been better?

You can't prove something that didn't occur but, 3 years out, would the recovery (joblessness, economy and finances) be stronger now if we'd swallowed hard and let the market take care of the housing and auto failures instead of government bailouts; reformed entitlements rather than creating a new one; cut government spending rather than adding 5 trillion in debt and getting downgraded; and pursued American energy?

Can't be proven that it would be... but some of us have a hunch.
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Old 12-30-2011, 03:08 PM   #971
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I don't trust profit-driven markets any more than I trust a bought out government. Both systems help out the same people.
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Old 12-30-2011, 03:16 PM   #972
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Can't be proven that it would be... but some of us have a hunch.
At least you're humble enough to state this... many on your side believe they have more than a hunch.
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Old 12-30-2011, 03:27 PM   #973
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the GOPs days are (should be) numbered



their best strategy? > voter suppression,
and they are working it with everything they got!
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Old 12-30-2011, 05:38 PM   #974
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the GOPs days are (should be) numbered



their best strategy? > voter suppression,
and they are working it with everything they got!
The United States will have more black, brown, and yellow (and purple?) than white people by 2050.

Eventually former minorities are going to figure out how to get their fair share of the pie.

Either that or all the white baby-boomers will be dead, as well
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Old 12-30-2011, 06:03 PM   #975
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Ok, it woulda been worse but could it have been better?

You can't prove something that didn't occur but, 3 years out, would the recovery (joblessness, economy and finances) be stronger now if we'd swallowed hard and let the market take care of the housing and auto failures instead of government bailouts; reformed entitlements rather than creating a new one; cut government spending rather than adding 5 trillion in debt and getting downgraded; and pursued American energy?

Can't be proven that it would be... but some of us have a hunch.
Whose policy was the bailout? You know, the one in the fall of 2008?

As for the fiscal stimulus (the one-time expenditures that Obama started in 2009) was good policy and strongly supported by Bernanke (that Marxist). Obama inherited a recession marked by a contracting economy and insufficient aggregate demand. The first step in terms of the government response was to effect monetary policy by cutting interest rates. They'd already cut them to zero by the end of 2008 and there had not been a positive response. At that point, you have the government properly stepping in to become a sort of buyer of last resort, which has historically been effective. You can debate whether by the time the stimulus $ got to where it needed to go (due to the length it takes for bills to pass and funds to flow), and you can fault Democrats for all sorts of pork barrel politics. But you cannot debate that the economic recovery would have been slower and more jobs would have been lost due to the cyclical nature of insufficient aggregate demand. You may postulate that the debt and deficit would have been lowered, but this is a debateable point.

I think that you completely ignore the positive effect that a government stimulus has in terms of encouraging the business community and increasing business confidence. Simple proof of that can be seen in the stock markets which jump wildly at even minor announcements of government intervention. And that in itself has a positive effect on the economy and brings in more government revenues in the long run.

I don't believe it would have been better, and I haven't read an argument from you showing me how you think it would be either.
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Old 12-30-2011, 06:51 PM   #976
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Whose policy was the bailout? You know, the one in the fall of 2008?
It was Bush's, of course. But it happened so close to the Obama election that we might as well call it his policy.
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Old 12-30-2011, 07:06 PM   #977
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Ok, it woulda been worse but could it have been better?

You can't prove something that didn't occur but, 3 years out, would the recovery (joblessness, economy and finances) be stronger now if we'd swallowed hard and let the market take care of the housing and auto failures instead of government bailouts; reformed entitlements rather than creating a new one; cut government spending rather than adding 5 trillion in debt and getting downgraded; and pursued American energy?

Can't be proven that it would be... but some of us have a hunch.
Take a look at the run on the banks that led to the Great Depression. It was the Government's non-involvement that exacerbated the lack of confidence in the banking system, and led to the greatest economic downturn in history. There is no question that without TARP, things would have been much, much worse today.

To give you a look at where things were heading, after the Lehman Brothers bankruptcy, credit markets froze. There was an evaporation of trust. Banks stopped lending. Forget Wall Street, even the behemoth GE was having trouble meeting it's short term financing, and would have certainly gone under had it not been for TARP. There was a chance that McDonald's was not going to be able to pay it's workers in the next week because it couldn't access short term financing.

All in all, we needed a restoration of trust in the banking system, and the only party that was large enough to take action was the U.S. Government. It's silly to think that the affect of free markets can't be proven, because the Great Depression is a perfect example that disproves anyone who thinks government should have stayed out of it. All this anti-TARP talk coming from most of the Republican candidates is designed to appeal to the stupidity of the American public.
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Old 12-30-2011, 08:10 PM   #978
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All this anti-TARP talk coming from most of the Republican candidates is designed to appeal to the stupidity of the American public.
And/or their short memories. Not just Americans, all peoples are like this, at least in the West. It's part of human nature to quickly forget traumatic events, almost as though they never happened. I assume there is a good evolutionary reason for this. But I digress.
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Old 12-30-2011, 09:46 PM   #979
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A President McCain wouldn't have done anything differently.
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Old 12-30-2011, 09:55 PM   #980
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A President McCain wouldn't have done anything differently.
He certainly would have. One of his promises for when he took office was a spending freeze across the board on everything other then Defense, S.S., Medicare/Medicaid.
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