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Old 10-21-2004, 12:31 PM   #1
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For You Separation of Church & State Lovers

I guess we should avoid speaking disrespectfully of other religions and not speak of Christianity at all....

School Says Halloween Disrespectful to Witches

Quote:
The district said Halloween celebrations and children dressed in Halloween costumes might be offensive to real witches.
If they only stopped after the first two reasons.....
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Old 10-21-2004, 12:53 PM   #2
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You know, I DO love separation of church and state.

Not only does it ensure that I don't have to be any particular faith unless I really want to be, but it gives me the opportunity to read wacky news articles.

Seriously, though. This isn't really a separation of church and state issue--perhaps a case of P.C. run amok, but would we appreciate it if a Wiccan dressed up in a dopey costume of Christ or the Virgin Mary and poked fun at Christmas and Easter? I doubt it.
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Old 10-21-2004, 01:03 PM   #3
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Yeah, I agree, this has nothing to do with separation of church and state. It's just a community school board deciding they don't want to make fun of people.

Now, I wonder about the mental health of Wiccans who would be offended by this, but whatever.
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Old 10-21-2004, 01:04 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by paxetaurora
Seriously, though. This isn't really a separation of church and state issue--perhaps a case of P.C. run amok, but would we appreciate it if a Wiccan dressed up in a dopey costume of Christ or the Virgin Mary and poked fun at Christmas and Easter? I doubt it.
How is it not church & state? The school obviously recognizes that Wicca is a religion and that Holloween utilizes symbols related to witches.

We easily dismiss the representation of Wicca in a school, but will scream bloody murder if the Ten Commandments are found on public property. We have no problem censoring students from mentioning Jesus Christ in a commencement address.

Same crap as with the LA City council. Eliminate a small cross on the City Seal, but leave the imposing figure of the godess Pomona.
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Old 10-21-2004, 01:09 PM   #5
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I think it's the school district trying to be cheap so they don't have to pay for classroom parties.

Frankly, I don't think this is healthy. I learned more about different religions in my Catholic high school without the PC restrictions than I did in the public school system. Instead of saying no because of the Wiccans, why can't teachers teach about the Wiccan faith and the origins of Halloween. What's wrong with that?
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Old 10-21-2004, 01:18 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by sharky
Frankly, I don't think this is healthy. I learned more about different religions in my Catholic high school without the PC restrictions than I did in the public school system. Instead of saying no because of the Wiccans, why can't teachers teach about the Wiccan faith and the origins of Halloween. What's wrong with that?
So you would allow schools to teach religion? Can the schools pick and choose, or should each and every religion be represented?
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Old 10-21-2004, 01:21 PM   #7
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I just have a question about the title of this thread for nbcrusader. You mean you aren't?
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Old 10-21-2004, 01:23 PM   #8
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Re: For You Separation of Church & State Lovers

Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


School Says Halloween Disrespectful to Witches



At least someone is looking out for Ann Coulter.



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Old 10-21-2004, 01:23 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by indra
I just have a question about the title of this thread for nbcrusader. You mean you aren't?
Aren't what?
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Old 10-21-2004, 01:23 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by sharky
I think it's the school district trying to be cheap so they don't have to pay for classroom parties.

Frankly, I don't think this is healthy. I learned more about different religions in my Catholic high school without the PC restrictions than I did in the public school system.
I did too, sharky...I learned only about christianity in the public schools...



*edited to more accurately reflect what the hell I was trying to say!

*edited again because I can't spell!
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Old 10-21-2004, 01:25 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Aren't what?
A lover of separation of church & state.
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Old 10-21-2004, 01:26 PM   #12
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I love the First Amendment.

Let's repeat together:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof......"
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Old 10-21-2004, 01:31 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
I love the First Amendment.

Let's repeat together:


prohibiting the free exercise thereof......"


Have you ever had the government come into your church and tell them what or how to administer to your fellow congregates?
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Old 10-21-2004, 01:31 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
So you would allow schools to teach religion? Can the schools pick and choose, or should each and every religion be represented?
All religions. It should be part of geography or sociology or its own world religions class. Religion is a major way in which people define themselves and their beliefs and you can easily break it down into poli-social beliefs. Or incorporate it into other classes. I had a interesting class called Death and Dying that dealt with the legal issues of death, the cycle of mourning and how other religions view death, Heaven, Hell, etc.
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Old 10-21-2004, 01:33 PM   #15
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I agree with Pax this is nothing but someone being over PC.

Has anyone considered the fact that halloween makes fun of everyone? I see people dressed as priest, nuns, withches, politicians, dogs, cats, monsters, superheros, etc. Some dress as someone they admire others to mock...no one's safe it's freaking Halloween!

This is just a weak ass excuse. But people all over have been trying to ban halloween ever since I can remember except usually it's conservative Christians.
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Old 10-21-2004, 01:52 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
I love the First Amendment.

Let's repeat together:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof......"
Several framers of the actual document commented on it in various letters, articles, books, etc. Thomas Jefferson, for example, is quite blunt in saying the very phrase you quote is "building a wall of separation between church and State." A sample taken from this site:


Quote:
Thomas Jefferson interpreted the 1st Amendment in his famous letter to the Danbury Baptist Association in January 1, 1802:


"I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State."

Some Religious activists try to extricate the concept of separation between church and State by claiming that those words do not occur in the Constitution. Indeed they do not, but neither does it exactly say "freedom of religion," yet the First Amendment implies both.

As Thomas Jefferson wrote in his Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom:


"Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination."

James Madison, perhaps the greatest supporter for separation of church and State, and whom many refer to as the father of the Constitution, also held similar views which he expressed in his letter to Edward Livingston, 10 July 1822:


"And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together."
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Old 10-21-2004, 02:00 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
This is just a weak ass excuse. But people all over have been trying to ban halloween ever since I can remember except usually it's conservative Christians.
I'm going to play conspiracy theorist.... Maybe it IS a conservative christian plot to ban halloween. It's perfect...no one thinks of that angle!
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Old 10-21-2004, 02:03 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by indra


I'm going to play conspiracy theorist.... Maybe it IS a conservative christian plot to ban halloween. It's perfect...no one thinks of that angle!
They're still blaming the witches...

let's see if they float!
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Old 10-21-2004, 02:10 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by indra
Several framers of the actual document commented on it in various letters, articles, books, etc. Thomas Jefferson, for example, is quite blunt in saying the very phrase you quote is "building a wall of separation between church and State." A sample taken from this site:
Take the body of Jefferson's works and you may get a different conclusion. We've had other threads review this point in greater detail.

I guess it just doesn't mean what is says....
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Old 10-21-2004, 02:12 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
Have you ever had the government come into your church and tell them what or how to administer to your fellow congregates?
In the US, the government is far more likely to tell a church how it can be run than a church tell the government how it can be run.
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