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Old 09-17-2002, 04:29 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by ouizy
Here is how I see it:

Everyone in this situation is wrong.

First of all we as Americans should be embarrassed by the way the "authorities" handled this, but let me begin with who is wrong and why chronilogically.

1. The woman who 'reported' this was wrong. Supposedly she kept turning around and staring at the three students. She kept trying to overhear their conversation. Due to this the three students played a practical jke on her. She was rude. She should have minded her own business and stayed out of the affairs of the three students she obviously (and racially) found suspicious.

2. The three students were wrong. In a time when a country is at its weakest, and at a time when tempers are flairing (mostly racially motivated) the three students should have been wise enough to not joke about a terrorist attack. I understand they should not stand up for anything racially motivated, or even obnoxious or stupid people, but they should have confronted the woman directly and asked her to leave them alone.

3. The authorities were wrong in making such a stupid display of over-zealousness. They should have researched and investigated the 'threat' in more depth. If the cops are going to close 111 miles of highway every time there is a bomb-threat or other empty threat, we will be paralized as a country.

4. The press is clearly in the wrong once again for jumping to conclusions. They should never have allowed that ignorant woman to speak on television, they should have used prudence in the way they handled this, but hey it is the American press, they are lower than trash in my mind...
I see it the same way you do ouizy.

And, I might add that since 9/11/01, the American people have been told repeatedly to "stay vigilant...report anything you feel is suspicious." This woman probably thought she was doing her duty as an American...I think she was being a nosy busy-body but I'm sure she felt justified.

And if those 3 guys really did play that type of prank on someone just days after the 9/11 anniversary...I don't know what to say about that.
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Old 09-17-2002, 04:32 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bono's American Wife


And if those 3 guys really did play that type of prank on someone just days after the 9/11 anniversary...I don't know what to say about that.
Again, they have denied this.
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Old 09-17-2002, 05:31 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl


Again, they have denied this.
That's why I said "if"...the only ones who really know what happened are the woman and the 3 students.
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Old 09-17-2002, 10:12 PM   #24
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We were not there, and we do not know the whole story.

Would you admit to joking about such things if you were the med students?

The police responded correctly to the situation. I would rather have them overreact and find out they were wrong later. We have been at war for years. Starting with the first Trade Center Bombing, the Embassy Bombings, The USS COLE, and now 9/11.

It is time to wake up and smell the coffee. If "SOME" pink polka dotted people are out to kill us then pink polka dotted people are going to be suspect. That is not racism, that is called self preservation. It's not even prejudice because there is "just cause" for concern.

That said, I praise anyone who legitimately reports things to law enforcement. We have no idea what threats have been made against us, nor do we know how many people are phoning in tips to the police. This I do believe based on the fact that I am sure this is not the first time someone has tipped the police off in the past year: There must have been some type of warning in FL to lead them to react the way they did. Thank goodness they did!

As for the hospital again we do not have the facts. For all we know, these three have been in trouble before. I hate the thought that it is a knee jerk reaction, especially when they were not found of any wrongdoing. It is a trajedy if they did not do anything, and they lose their future because of it. It is equally trajic if they inflicted upon themselves with a stupid joke on someone who was staring at them.

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Old 09-17-2002, 10:40 PM   #25
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THERE WAS NO JOKE!!!!!

THis woman said they were talking in muslim and heard 9/11 and other english words. Ah well sorry to break it to you lady but only one of them know how to speak muslim. I watched these kids on crossfire today and they looked very adament that they did nothing wrong. The woman that reported this is now in hospital and all three of these kids sent their best wishes out to her!

This is utter bullshit that these kids wont be able to complete their residentceys. If i were them i'd sue her, the cops and the hospital!!!

Over reaction is not good its dangerous. What if one of these kids paniced and were shot? Oh and the cops said they werent co-operative, well two of them were and the third said they couldnt search his car because it took him 2 hhr to pack. If cops pulled me over i wouldnt be to happy and wouldnt let them just run over me!!!

And the story that the men barged through a toll booth is bullshit as well. They even have video eveidence that the cops wont make public!!!
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Old 09-17-2002, 10:44 PM   #26
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I think what you heard was that one of them was speaking in "Arabic," as "muslim" is not a language.

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Old 09-17-2002, 10:53 PM   #27
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Call it overreaction if you want.

They reacted that way for a reason. DO you really think that this is the first time a tip was made to the police by someone in the past year? If the law enforcement agencies reacted this way to all the tips they received I would agree with you. For them to shut down the highway ect....There was a reason for it beyond one phone call.

They reacted this way for a reason. Reasons you and I are not privy to.

As for one of them accidentally getting shot...It did not happen.

The world is full of what if's....What if our government agencies were not handcuffed by political correctness? Maybe 9/11 would not have happened. In this case it did happen.

As for the hospital....I have little sympathy for their decision. No charges on the three, then they should be able to finish their schooling.
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Old 09-18-2002, 12:53 AM   #28
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aren't there "stupid, ignorant fucks" in every environment human beings inhabit? I didn't realize other countries are free of that human characterisitc...
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Old 09-18-2002, 12:59 AM   #29
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I agree with almost everything ouizy said; however, I take exception to his statement about American journalists. True, sometimes our press goes too far with some issues, especially in the (dare I say it) post-9/11 world. But the American journalism tradition is among the best in the world, and look at some of the journalists we are fortunate enough to have today--folks like Newsweek's Fareed Zakaria, and of course someone like Daniel Pearl--and I think that freedom of the press has never looked better.
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Old 09-18-2002, 04:40 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Wanderer
aren't there "stupid, ignorant fucks" in every environment human beings inhabit? I didn't realize other countries are free of that human characterisitc...
In fact.
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Old 09-18-2002, 08:10 AM   #31
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i think that the woman didn't have the right to eavesdrop just because they looked suspicious.....if that happened in every country and people got sacked because of a joke (that they may not even have made) then there would be international shortages of jobs......just because a few muslims are terrorists (and other nationalities are as well...) it doesn't mean that we should judge the whole race accordingly.
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Old 09-18-2002, 11:39 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
It is time to wake up and smell the coffee. If "SOME" pink polka dotted people are out to kill us then pink polka dotted people are going to be suspect. That is not racism, that is called self preservation. It's not even prejudice because there is "just cause" for concern.


It is racism. It's saying that if a person's skin is Black then they are more likely to be a bad person than if their skin is white. It's saying if you're Black then it's okay if you're stopped at an airport and searched for no other reason than the colour of your skin. It's saying people are right to be suspicious of Black people, because the people who hit the World Trade Centre were Black. Tell me, after Timothy McVeigh bombed a building in Oklahoma, were all white men suddenly viewed as suspects? When extremist Christian groups bomb family planning clinics, do we view Christians as possible terrorists?


Quote:
As for the hospital again we do not have the facts. For all we know, these three have been in trouble before. I hate the thought that it is a knee jerk reaction, especially when they were not found of any wrongdoing. It is a trajedy if they did not do anything, and they lose their future because of it. It is equally trajic if they inflicted upon themselves with a stupid joke on someone who was staring at them.
Yep, making a stupid joke is definitely grounds for having your career threatened. But only if you're Black and therefore a possible terrorist in the eyes of some prejudiced fools.
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Old 09-18-2002, 11:46 AM   #33
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They were all on Donahue last night (the med students and the woman) and all of them seemed sincere to me. The woman said she heard tidbits that when added up sounded suspicious and so she reported it. She did not seem racist and I feel she was honestly trying to be a good citizen--if anything I blame the media for its relentless barrage of 9/11 stories and imagery on the anniversary which may well have heightened paranoia last week. The police rely on tips from citizens in all kinds of scenarios--the vast majority of them being deadends--it's just unfortunate that this particular one made such a splash in the news and affected these men the way it did. The students seemed completely credible and sincere also. No one's sueing anybody. There seemed to be no lasting ill feelings on either side and in fact, while the woman maintains that she did the right thing, by the end of the show she seemed more embarrassed and slightly traumatized than anything else to have made a mistake that landed her in the news. I kind of felt bad for all of them--the students and the woman.
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Old 09-18-2002, 06:47 PM   #34
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I saw that last night.

My opinion has changed a little in that I think that woman is more of an asshead than I originally thought, that plus I think her moronic attorney will be of no use to her...
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Old 09-18-2002, 07:31 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
It is racism. It's saying that if a person's skin is Black then they are more likely to be a bad person than if their skin is white. [/B]

From the Webster Dictionary

Main Entry: rac∑ism
Pronunciation: 'rA-"si-z&m also -"shi-
Function: noun
Date: 1936
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

Please tell me how the definition of racism fits in this case? No one is saying they are dumb, stupid, ignorant, genetically inferior, or defective because of their race.


What is wrong with wanting protection?


FACT: 1993 Trade Center Attack conducted by Arab/Muslim EXTREMISTS
FACT: Embassy Bombings conducted by Arab/Muslim EXTREMISTS
FACT: USS COLE bombed by Arab/Muslim EXTREMISTS
FACT: 9/11 "MURDERERS" were Arab/Muslim EXTREMIST/
FACT: Mousaui is an ARAB/MUSLIM EXTREMIST
FACT: Richard Reis (Shoe Bomber) is an Arab/Muslim EXTREMIST
FACT: The six individuals arrested in Buffalo are Americans of Arab descent and are people who have trained in Afghanistan with known terrorists.

Is there a pattern here?

I think it would be foolish to NOT suspect someone with a similar background, travel pattern, ect.


Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
Tell me, after Timothy McVeigh bombed a building in Oklahoma, were all white men suddenly viewed as suspects? When extremist Christian groups bomb family planning clinics, do we view Christians as possible terrorists?[/B]
Well, I will say I concider any EXTREMIST a danger. CHRISTIAN EXTREMISTS, MUSLIM EXTREMISTS, RIGHT WING EXTREMISTS are a threat. Certainly people who belonged to these organizations and groups are capable of some pretty horrendous things. Can you tell me that people in these groups have not been targets of searches, probes ect? If our government here in the US did not do that against these groups after events like you mentioned, I would be saddened about it.


Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
Yep, making a stupid joke is definitely grounds for having your career threatened. But only if you're Black and therefore a possible terrorist in the eyes of some prejudiced fools. [/B]
I am sorry but "if" they did make a joke do you really think it is appropriate? I want to be treated by a doctor that takes 9/11 and makes a joke about the death and destruction? Please enlighten me as to what was so funny about 9/11 that it should be joked about. Again I say "IF" because I was not there.

I am glad you mentioned the word prejudiced. Here is the definition for you:


Main Entry: [1]prej∑u∑dice
Pronunciation: 'pre-j&-d&s
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French, from Latin praejudicium previous judgment, damage, from prae- + judicium judgment ómore at JUDICIAL
Date: 13th century
1 : injury or damage resulting from some judgment or action of another in disregard of one's rights; especially : detriment to one's legal rights or claims
2 a (1) : preconceived judgment or opinion (2) : an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge b : an instance of such judgment or opinion c : an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics

I know you will cling to definition one, but if we read a bit further into definition #2 (2) it says without JUST GROUNDS or before sufficient knowledge. IF they did make the JOKE she has both. The terrorist acts I listed above coupled with a very poor sense of humor is more than enough justification to do what she did.

If we contiunue to part (c) of the definition it says an irrational attitude of hostility. It is in no way shape or form IRRATIONAL to want to protect ourselves our country or our families given the acts of terrorism committed against our country.

Profiling in this instance is not Racist nor is it Prejudiced.

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Old 09-19-2002, 08:23 AM   #36
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i think the point of the christian extremist point was to show that not all christians were under suspician whereas if something happens with extremist muslims then all muslims are under suspician.
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Old 09-19-2002, 02:19 PM   #37
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Dreadsox,

All of your facts are not facts.

This was widely reported.

Quote:
The son of an English mother and Jamaican father, Mr Reid was born in 1973 in the London suburb of Bromley.
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Old 09-19-2002, 04:23 PM   #38
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Dreadsox,

All of your facts are not facts.

This was widely reported.

I stand corrected. Was he another one that had links to Afghanistan? Thanks for fixing me up on that one!

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