Songs of Songs, Books & Fat Puns - New Album Discussion #8

[mikal]

Didn't U2 play a show with Bruce Springsteen as the lead singer once?

Again, all about how you brand it. Be upfront that Larry is out due to back surgery but we have special guest Dave Grohl (I'd by a ticket just for this alone) or someone random filling in.

 

[ascender_RS]

It's good to hear that Larry is missing the audiences etc and I wonder if some of the other comments are linked-to the rumours that they're going to ditch Oseary?

Those other comments though could be taken in a few different ways. Who really knows what the day to day band/business dynamics are like these days and how they're all feeling about what the future holds.

 

[lightmyway91]

Which one was that?

A one off Times Square performance that was for world aids day and billed as u2 minus one. Very different to what the vegas shows would be imo.

 

[Hollow Island]

They also used guitar and synth backing tracks heavily on the last tour. Maybe they should play without Edge. After all, the Zoo TV era featured more synths and the guitar wasn’t as prominent as in the past /s

The Zoo TV era didn’t rely that heavily on loops and drum machines, and the loops were of Larry’s live drums. Drum machines augmented the sound. He wasn’t replaced.

The venue can be as cool as an ice age but it’s more important for the venue to have U2 than it is for U2 to be the first to play there. Maybe they have to wait. Big deal. They’re musicians and the quality of their performance is surely more important to them than playing a venue.

Vegas is still the trash capital, and old entertainers doing a Vegas residency is still a joke, and that joke will obscure the artistic merit that would underpin a U2 show. It’s image is set, and climate change will turn it into a ghost town before it changes.

Larry-less U2 shows aren’t gonna happen.

 

[mikal]

Soooo....I mean this with no disrespect towards Larry or drummers/bass players, but there is a huge difference between going to a U2 show where Larry is missing compared to if Bono or the Edge were missing. Singers/Lead Guitarists fill the seats. Again, no disrespect, just stating the obvious.

 

[Hollow Island]

Singers & guitarists fill the seats but the drums are the engine of the band, and in some cases he drummer is so distinct that their absence dramatically alters the performance. In some cases the drummer is replaceable, but U2 isn’t one of those cases.

 

[mikal]

Singers & guitarists fill the seats but the drums are the engine of the band, and in some cases he drummer is so distinct that their absence dramatically alters the performance. In some cases the drummer is replaceable, but U2 isn’t one of those cases.

Yep and again no disrespect to Larry Mullin Jr, but U2 can for sure play the Vegas shows(s) without him and still put on a great show and will have no problem selling it out.

 

[Hollow Island]

They could put on a great show and sell out venues if Bono was the only original member.

U2 know that they’d be putting on a subpar U2 show if they played without Larry, and they’d never settle for that. He’s essential to the music.

 

[lightmyway91]

Yep and again no disrespect to Larry Mullin Jr, but U2 can for sure play the Vegas shows(s) without him and still put on a great show and will have no problem selling it out.

I agree with that but I don’t think that’s a good enough reason to play the shows. I reckon there’s a lot of fans that would attend even though if given the decision to make they wouldn’t have the band playing without Larry.

 

[DeVaul]

What if Larry’s delay means the venue has a bit more time to finish construction and the band can still be the first in? I agree the first-to-play is a big deal; anyone discounting the venue tech simply hasn’t read enough.

 

[Hollow Island]

I like REM’s post-Bill Berry work a lot and they were still an incredible live band who sold out shows, but the old songs never sounded right without him and fans never stopped mourning his absence. It would be sad for that to happen to U2, even if it was only for a dozen shows or whatever.

Not that it will happen. I’m really surprised that there are U2 fans who think they’d plan gigs knowing one member wouldn’t be there.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Vegas is still the trash capital, and old entertainers doing a Vegas residency is still a joke, and that joke will obscure the artistic merit that would underpin a U2 show. It’s image is set, and climate change will turn it into a ghost town before it changes.

lol ok dude.

did you lose your house on a bad spin of roulette back in 73 and now forever hold a grudge against the city?

i heard U2 will have donnie and marie open for them, and all of the concertgoers get a free buffet that they can hit on their way to the penny slots.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

I’m really surprised that there are U2 fans who think they’d plan gigs knowing one member wouldn’t be there.

i mean... it's based on actual quotes from actual band members, not some PLEBA fan fantasy.

but do you.

 

[womanfish]

Things are getting a little hyperbolic. Mikal said this already, that a different drummer would not be the same as not having Edge or Bono.

I'll take it a step further and say that almost no one but maybe us posting in here would notice sound wise, if another drummer stood in for Larry for a bit. I'll give an example. I've heard Everlong by the Foo's hundreds of times. They had a 9 year old play the drums at a show for this song, and I couldn't tell you the difference, especially in a live setting.

If you know the drum part, you know the drum part, playing on the same kit. Pretty much identical no matter who is swinging the sticks.
It's not like the Edge who has miles of processing and switching between them during songs, that probably only he and Dallas know how it all works.
Saying the shows would be supbar sound-wise, because larry isn't there is ridiculous.

 

[Hollow Island]

I get it, you love Vegas and love is blindness.

Quotes about a possible show and Larry not knowing what’s planned doesn’t mean they’re considering playing without him. Do you remember that these shows haven’t been confirmed?

 

[Hollow Island]

Things are getting a little hyperbolic. Mikal said this already, that a different drummer would not be the same as not having Edge or Bono.

I'll take it a step further and say that almost no one but maybe us posting in here would notice sound wise, if another drummer stood in for Larry for a bit. I'll give an example. I've heard Everlong by the Foo's hundreds of times. They had a 9 year old play the drums at a show for this song, and I couldn't tell you the difference, especially in a live setting.

If you know the drum part, you know the drum part, playing on the same kit. Pretty much identical no matter who is swinging the sticks.
It's not like the Edge who has miles of processing and switching between them during songs, that probably only he and Dallas know how it all works.
Saying the shows would be supbar sound-wise, because larry isn't there is ridiculous.

Well, people noticed when REM and the Smashing Pumpkins and the Rolling Stones and Pearl Jam replaced their drummers. Drum parts may be set in stone but every drummer has a different feel, which in turn changes how the rest of the band plays.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

I get it, you love Vegas and love is blindness.

Quotes about a possible show and Larry not knowing what’s planned doesn’t mean they’re considering playing without him. Do you remember that these shows haven’t been confirmed?

you said it might be different if it was a "respected" city.

i told you that it actually IS going in London as well.

your response to that was neener neener vegas bad climate change make it go away you just love Wayne Newton that's why you can't see that i'm right.

i've wasted enough time.

 

[Hollow Island]

I question your ability to read if you think that’s what I was saying.

Im sorry I didn’t acknowledge you saying that there will be a similar venue in London. That is good. But a futuristic venue in London creates a different impression than a futuristic venue in the kitsch capital of the world. And yes, it’s still known as that. Maybe U2 should do a residency there so people don’t make fun of them for being a Vegas act.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

 

[mikal]

Well, people noticed when REM and the Smashing Pumpkins and the Rolling Stones and Pearl Jam replaced their drummers. Drum parts may be set in stone but every drummer has a different feel, which in turn changes how the rest of the band plays.

Random, but I saw the Pumpkins in '98 without Jimmy and it was one of the best shows I've seen. This has no bearing on either side of the argument but I just remembered this when you brought up the Smashing Pumpkins.

 

[dan_smee]

This is genuinely an argument between people on one hand saying “hey this thing may be possible. The person literally said it is, and here’s some evidence and logic to support it” and people on the other being obstinate saying “no. This thing that involves other humans can’t happen because of MY emotions.”

Fascinating.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Random, but I saw the Pumpkins in '98 without Jimmy and it was one of the best shows I've seen. This has no bearing on either side of the argument but I just remembered this when you brought up the Smashing Pumpkins.

Matt Cameron is such a force within Pearl Jam now that it would be weird seeing them with someone else - and he's the replacement.

some of the best Springsteen shows I've seen came with a fill in for Max and, obviously, a sax player who is not named Clarence.

i saw the Killers without Keuning and didn't even notice he wasn't there until midway through the show.

this is in noooo way saying that U2 should leave Larry behind and that it would be the same with a fill in drummer - it's just to say that they would absolutely be fine on a short term basis, and if Larry is on board with the idea, it's absurd to think they should not do it because it would offend the sensibilities of a few fans.

now if Larry was against it and they went ahead with it anyway? we're having a completely different conversation.

this does not appear to be that.

 

[ascender_RS]

The soundbites from Larry can be read in a couple of ways though which is why we're speculating.

Or why we're speculating, second-guessing and reading in to things even more than usual.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

This is genuinely an argument between people on one hand saying “hey this thing may be possible. The person literally said it is, and here’s some evidence and logic to support it” and people on the other being obstinate saying “no. This thing that involves other humans can’t happen because of MY emotions.”

Fascinating.

and i readily admit that they could choose NOT do do it because of Larry's injuries - but that they very well may choose TO do it, and Larry appears to be aware of that and, more importantly, okay with that - because he pretty much actually said so.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

The soundbites from Larry can be read in a couple of ways though which is why we're speculating.

Or why we're speculating, second-guessing and reading in to things even more than usual.

it's what interference does best!

i also honestly have a lot of time on my hands 'cause i took the day off to watch the US/Iran game at 2.

 

[mikal]

Not once during this conversation has anyone asked "Is Larry Ok?"

 

[Hollow Island]

This is genuinely an argument between people on one hand saying “hey this thing may be possible. The person literally said it is, and here’s some evidence and logic to support it” and people on the other being obstinate saying “no. This thing that involves other humans can’t happen because of MY emotions.”

Fascinating.

Yeah, nobody is talking about the importance of the drummer to the music. Nobody’s using logic to say why it won’t happen. It’s all emotions. SMH. Kidding. Nobody’s saying what you’re accusing them of saying.

Of course it’s possible to play without him. Anything is possible. When I read that quote I took it to mean they won’t be playing because won’t be playing. Like an “over my dead body “ bit or hyperbole.

 

[Hollow Island]

Random, but I saw the Pumpkins in '98 without Jimmy and it was one of the best shows I've seen. This has no bearing on either side of the argument but I just remembered this when you brought up the Smashing Pumpkins.

The 98 tour was amazing!

 

[Hollow Island]

Matt Cameron is such a force within Pearl Jam now that it would be weird seeing them with someone else - and he's the replacement.

some of the best Springsteen shows I've seen came with a fill in for Max and, obviously, a sax player who is not named Clarence.

i saw the Killers without Keuning and didn't even notice he wasn't there until midway through the show.

this is in noooo way saying that U2 should leave Larry behind and that it would be the same with a fill in drummer - it's just to say that they would absolutely be fine on a short term basis, and if Larry is on board with the idea, it's absurd to think they should not do it because it would offend the sensibilities of a few fans.

now if Larry was against it and they went ahead with it anyway? we're having a completely different conversation.

this does not appear to be that.

Matt Cameron didn’t fit nearly as well in 98. It took him time to fit well, and he still lacks the swing that Krusen, Abruzzesse and Irons brought. A fill in for Larry wouldn’t have the time required to really gel with the band. It’s also probable that U2 would have a harder time adapting to a new drummer than a lot of other bands that have been mentioned because they lack the chops.

It would also be weird for them to use another drummer because they’re so into the myth of U2 , especially on stage, being just the four of them. I’d love it if they gave up on the myth and had a touring guitarist and keyboard player on stage and ditched the backing tracks, but that won’t happen because U2 are in love with the idea of the band being the 4 of them.

 

[Hollow Island]

and i readily admit that they could choose NOT do do it because of Larry's injuries - but that they very well may choose TO do it, and Larry appears to be aware of that and, more importantly, okay with that - because he pretty much actually said so.

Lol, in no way did he say he was ok with it. All he said was that if they played it would be without him. You’re saying he’s ok with it - he gave no indication of how he feels about it. He doesn’t sound happy with the state of band relations, though.


“You only do this if you’re having the best time,” Mullen says. “And not everyone is going to make it because the price is so high. So I think the challenge is for more generosity. More openness to the process. I am autonomous and I value my autonomy. I don’t sing from the same hymn sheet. I don’t pray to the same version of God. So everyone has their limits. And you only do this if it is a great time you’re having, you know?”