Someday U2 will have a new album. Today is not that day. discuss.

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popacrobat said:
this argument is pretty ridiculous.

nobody is saying grammys = awesome, great, great, great music. but it doesn't have to be that grammys are reserved for bubblegum pop types only, and some of those top 40/billboard 100 songs can be pretty damn good anyway. (read: some).

that said, how many times has bono gone on about having a single that catches fire, or puncturing the social sphere or something? for u2 to win grammy awards as a 40/50 year old rock band, "dad rock" label or not, it means that they were successfully able to puncture whatever mainstream sphere they wanted to, and the songs, at the least, resonated with the general public to a fairly good extent.

u2 want their songs to be heard everywhere. grammys for a rock band can be an indication of success because of that.

that doesn't mean that sometimes you can't make it on your own is better than say, streets, one, the fly or bad because it won song of the year in 2006. it simply indicates that u2 created a song that was widely appreciated, circulated, played and well-received.
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Exactly. This needs to be framed for reference.
 
This whole argument came about because of the following post:

The Slow Loris said:
Criticism is great, and welcomed. But complaining without any real foundation other than our subjective and meandering expectations is quite another. It comes across as desperation and a complete lack of faith.
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No, it doesn't come off as any of that, man! It is personal freaking taste. Am I not allowed to complain if I don't like one or two of their albums? LOL. I think they did bounce back nicely with NLOTH. But I still feel that they hit rock bottom of "trying too hard" with Bomb. At least ATYCLB was an interesting new direction. But Bomb reeked of overconfidence. That is my personal frickin opinion. No need to generalize that all complainers are losing faith.
 
everyone is allowed their own taste, preferences, and opinions.

you are not allowed your own facts. ATYCLB sold very well. Bomb won buckets of Grammys. the 9/11 Super Bowl performance was well received.

neither of these things indicate that you must like an album. but they do indeed indicate that, somewhere, a LOT of people liked the albums. to argue, then, that these albums are crappy may be subjectively true, but they are also objectively wrong. there is such a thing known as the Collective Wisdom (CW) which can be wrong, but, when one is trying to write or measure or observe a band's history and progression, one has to get over one's self and set aside one's personal preferences for just a moment and try to evaluate something on the basis of more measured, objective, tangible factors. otherwise, dialogue is impossible.

one is perfectly free to say that one doesn't like Sgt. Pepper's. that it starts out strong but then devolves as the album goes along into McCartney fluff. that Revolver and The White Album are better. but one is not free to say that it didn't change the history of popular music and represent an unqualified high point in the career of The Beatles and of popular music in general. it is a successful album with an incalculable influence that many people like, even if you don't yourself like it all that much.

we can nod to, acknowledge, and appreciate the opinions of others while at the same time hold different opinions of our own. it is possible.
 
Irvine511 said:
to argue, then, that these albums are crappy may be subjectively true, but they are also objectively wrong. there is such a thing known as the Collective Wisdom (CW) which can be wrong, but, when one is trying to write or measure or observe a band's history and progression, one has to get over one's self and set aside one's personal preferences for just a moment and try to evaluate something on the basis of more measured, objective, tangible factors. otherwise, dialogue is impossible.
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:lol: Subjectively true but objectively wrong? That's the funniest thing I've read today! Look... you say if we don't objectively evaluate, then dialogue is impossible. Not really. Everything posted here is opinions anyway except when it comes to sales figures or number of awards won and so on. We don't all have to agree.

Using your example, just because I say I hate Sgt. Peppers doesn't make its influence on modern music any less! So why get all worked up about it? lol.

PS: I don't actually hate Sgt. Peppers. ;)
 
It would all be made simpler if people would just support their opinions on a piece of music by saying why they like it or don't like it and choose to stop deferring to the band's irrelevant authority.
 
the saddest thing is that u2 fansites are full of pictures of Bono's daughters!!
sorry guys, but I dont care anything about them!!! We need new music!
 
jeevey said:
The band's irrelevant authority? Now we're all getting into literary theory and stuff.
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You know what I mean. People deferring to the band's opinion on their own music as if there is any authority to it. Sure, if they're explaining how they wrote something, then there is absolute authority. But in terms of quality (of a song or album or tour, etc.), it's irrelevant what they think. Just like it's irrelevant what U2 thinks about the Grammys. But I've seen for years fans use U2's own words to criticize POP as if that carries any special significance beyond U2's own personal desires. It doesn't change the music on the record if Bono wants to call it a "failure" or something of the sort. And yet invariably fans around here will use those comments as a fallacious appeal to authority.
 
Irvine511 said:
everyone is allowed their own taste, preferences, and opinions.

you are not allowed your own facts. ATYCLB sold very well. Bomb won buckets of Grammys. the 9/11 Super Bowl performance was well received.

neither of these things indicate that you must like an album. but they do indeed indicate that, somewhere, a LOT of people liked the albums. to argue, then, that these albums are crappy may be subjectively true, but they are also objectively wrong. there is such a thing known as the Collective Wisdom (CW) which can be wrong, but, when one is trying to write or measure or observe a band's history and progression, one has to get over one's self and set aside one's personal preferences for just a moment and try to evaluate something on the basis of more measured, objective, tangible factors. otherwise, dialogue is impossible.

one is perfectly free to say that one doesn't like Sgt. Pepper's. that it starts out strong but then devolves as the album goes along into McCartney fluff. that Revolver and The White Album are better. but one is not free to say that it didn't change the history of popular music and represent an unqualified high point in the career of The Beatles and of popular music in general. it is a successful album with an incalculable influence that many people like, even if you don't yourself like it all that much.

we can nod to, acknowledge, and appreciate the opinions of others while at the same time hold different opinions of our own. it is possible.
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I hereby nominate this to be the greatest post in interference history.
 
Irvine511 said:
everyone is allowed their own taste, preferences, and opinions.

you are not allowed your own facts. ATYCLB sold very well. Bomb won buckets of Grammys. the 9/11 Super Bowl performance was well received.

neither of these things indicate that you must like an album. but they do indeed indicate that, somewhere, a LOT of people liked the albums. to argue, then, that these albums are crappy may be subjectively true, but they are also objectively wrong. there is such a thing known as the Collective Wisdom (CW) which can be wrong, but, when one is trying to write or measure or observe a band's history and progression, one has to get over one's self and set aside one's personal preferences for just a moment and try to evaluate something on the basis of more measured, objective, tangible factors. otherwise, dialogue is impossible.

one is perfectly free to say that one doesn't like Sgt. Pepper's. that it starts out strong but then devolves as the album goes along into McCartney fluff. that Revolver and The White Album are better. but one is not free to say that it didn't change the history of popular music and represent an unqualified high point in the career of The Beatles and of popular music in general. it is a successful album with an incalculable influence that many people like, even if you don't yourself like it all that much.

we can nod to, acknowledge, and appreciate the opinions of others while at the same time hold different opinions of our own. it is possible.
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Well said. Again, De gustibus non est disputandum.
 
LemonMirrorSky said:
lol. Okay, with that logic then Kelly Clarkson's Stronger must be one cracker of an album.. since it won Best Pop Album and all. Maybe I should go pick it up. :hmm:
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That's a stupid argument. If you don't like pop music, you won't like Kelly Clarkson's "Stronger." It was still the most successful pop album and pop fans and critics alike raved over it.

Just because the style of music is subjectively absolute garbage doesn't mean it isn't Grammy worthy (for its style...).
 
Well I guess there's no way to know for another couple of months.
But Bono said they are "nearly there". I'm aware we can't really trust what he says but Larry told someone they want to have it finished by the end of the year, and the other day he mentioned they have an album "to finish".
And I just can't see how they could spend another whole YEAR rooting around with these songs.
 
U2DMfan said:
You know what I mean. People deferring to the band's opinion on their own music as if there is any authority to it. Sure, if they're explaining how they wrote something, then there is absolute authority. But in terms of quality (of a song or album or tour, etc.), it's irrelevant what they think. Just like it's irrelevant what U2 thinks about the Grammys. But I've seen for years fans use U2's own words to criticize POP as if that carries any special significance beyond U2's own personal desires. It doesn't change the music on the record if Bono wants to call it a "failure" or something of the sort. And yet invariably fans around here will use those comments as a fallacious appeal to authority.
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exactly.

i read an article the other day on Van Gogh's Sunflowers - he just ended up painting them as an accident - it was a rainy day, his life models didn't turn up and the weather was so bad he couldn't go out to do landscapes, so he looked around his room and decided to paint a vase of sunflowers just to put on the wall to decorate his friend Paul Gaugin's room

it really is not up to the artist to decide what their audience likes - they create what they create, and then the work takes on a life of its own
 
While so many people are pessimistic about the recent comments that the boys are back in the Studio, my guess as to why U2 is back in the studio is that they are maybe working on one of the other album projects while the DM album is in the bag. They've been touting multiple projects/ albums for a while and they could just be getting all the work done to line the ducks up in a row for multiple releases in 2014. There's no way they'd make another 'album on the road' like Zooropa, so get it done ahead of time. One can hope but I think there's a real possibility of this :hmm:
 
At least in previous years we had remastered albums or DVDs released in the years when there wasn't an album.
But we've had diddly-squat since the AB remaster in late 2011. Both 2012 and 2013 had absolutely no U2 product at all, which is quite baffling.
Why not release another DVD or something!
 
mofo82 said:
While so many people are pessimistic about the recent comments that the boys are back in the Studio, my guess as to why U2 is back in the studio is that they are maybe working on one of the other album projects while the DM album is in the bag. They've been touting multiple projects/ albums for a while and they could just be getting all the work done to line the ducks up in a row for multiple releases in 2014. There's no way they'd make another 'album on the road' like Zooropa, so get it done ahead of time. One can hope but I think there's a real possibility of this :hmm:
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they said the same thing before and we're still waiting for "that" album.
 
Irvine511 said:
you see?
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Yes but my point was why get worked up over it like the Slow Loris seemed to get. Anyway I'll let this topic go.

U2DMfan said:
Just like it's irrelevant what U2 thinks about the Grammys. But I've seen for years fans use U2's own words to criticize POP as if that carries any special significance beyond U2's own personal desires.
Click to expand...

Exactly. This man gets it! :up:
 
Irvine511 said:
everyone is allowed their own taste, preferences, and opinions.

you are not allowed your own facts. ATYCLB sold very well. Bomb won buckets of Grammys. the 9/11 Super Bowl performance was well received.

neither of these things indicate that you must like an album. but they do indeed indicate that, somewhere, a LOT of people liked the albums. to argue, then, that these albums are crappy may be subjectively true, but they are also objectively wrong. there is such a thing known as the Collective Wisdom (CW) which can be wrong, but, when one is trying to write or measure or observe a band's history and progression, one has to get over one's self and set aside one's personal preferences for just a moment and try to evaluate something on the basis of more measured, objective, tangible factors. otherwise, dialogue is impossible.

one is perfectly free to say that one doesn't like Sgt. Pepper's. that it starts out strong but then devolves as the album goes along into McCartney fluff. that Revolver and The White Album are better. but one is not free to say that it didn't change the history of popular music and represent an unqualified high point in the career of The Beatles and of popular music in general. it is a successful album with an incalculable influence that many people like, even if you don't yourself like it all that much.

we can nod to, acknowledge, and appreciate the opinions of others while at the same time hold different opinions of our own. it is possible.
Click to expand...


This :up:
 
The Slow Loris said:
I don't think anyone said that. The main point is that if an album is so terrible (as Bomb & ATYCLB are oftentimes accused by rabid U2 fans), then it probably wouldn't even be nominated for a grammy, let alone SWEEP them while also making history! I'm not a huge fan of award shows, but I know if I were in a band and were recognized at being the best in the world in any music genre, I would feel pretty good about it, and it would be nice if my fans would back me up. I know I was proud of U2 when they kicked everyone's butt with both ATYCLB & Atomic Bomb....but I guess that must make me a naive simpleton according to the elite U2 fan.
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I think you said exactly that, and you just did again just in reversed manner.

You're saying that because it won a grammy, it must be good? Because it was nominated, even?

Why do you value these grammy's so fucking much that they dictate what you should like or dislike?


:shrug: Sorry but I don't give a fig about awards shows and their prizes. I pick my music by listening to whether I like it or not. Not by checking if the mainstream mass likes it.
 
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