Postcard from The Edge (Q magazine)

[adam3000]

After readin the Q snippets, I'm a little more comfortable.

As for artists expressing themselves, when are we going to hear someone come out as vehemently against the terrorists and the rogue nations as they do against the US (this does not pertain exclusively to U2)?

Damn straight TLT. When are we gonna here an artist come out in favor of Democracy in Afghanistan. Democracy in Iraq. Democracy on the doorstep of Totalitarian governments like Iran and Sudan! Letting the educated youth of Iran get a taste of Liberty? Who's in favor of getting Lybia to give up their nuclear weapons program? Where are the singers glorifying women's rights and voting privileges in Afghanistan?

You think America isn't a City on A Hill anymore? It doesn't welcome people? U2 seem to feel welcome enough to tour here. Maybe they should stop, in protest. They don't need the money. Or better yet why don't they tour here and donate the profit to Bono's AIDs crisis in Africa. Maybe the tour will gross $100 million. Maybe net $40 million in profits. That's a lot of AIDs medicine. Again they don't need the money. They have every right to it. I wouldn't take it from them, but Bono wants to complain about getting money from Fundamentalist groups is like getting blood from a stone. That maybe true, so prove them wrong. Tour for Africa.

 

[caragriff]

No but in all seriousness though...I think a large danger in us lies within too much pride. I remember at one of last tours concerts Bono gibly suggested that Osama could kiss his royal Irish posterior and for some reason that got the whole crowd shouting, "USA...USA...USA". It sounded like some sort of soccer match and the trouble is I don't think that some have stopped...that they just stormed the field so to speak. I remember feeling uncomfortable and I can only speculate but I can assume Bono was wondering about the response that he got...I mean this is a man that would always drape himself in the white flag. Just a thought...

i totally understand what you are saying.
when that occurred, bono at more than one concert reacted to the USA chants with "Up Ireland anyone?"
sort of like, "we're all in this together, mates."

that's pretty much what this election is about. vote for the guy who responds to the terrorists by flexing his muscles and chanting usa or the guy who thinks it might be better for the whole world to solve this thing together.
i am glad edge is speaking out on this.

 

[u2ulysses]

It didn't seem to me that Edge went off on jick. It appears to me that an analogy was made which seems to have bothered some people.

Personally, I think some people have overreacted a bit.

It bothered me, but I do not feel I overreacted at all.

If you or I or any other member of this forum were to have used that same analogy, we would have been called on it - by our fellow forum members and most likely the mods. This has happened in the past when "Hitler" analogies were tossed about a bit too liberally.

My comments were not about Edge's words overall. Jick has deserved them - he's deserved them since 1997, when he used to post (as J then) on the old WIRE questioning U2. Jick may come up with new ideas, but he always writes in an extremely negative and deragatory manner. Edge had every right to respond to such drivel.

What I didn't appreciate was Edge's loose analogy. Jick may be very negative and he does indeed write inflammatory comments - but to say this is just like terrorists was extreme - VERY extreme. Negative comments about a band is not the same as inciting countryman to commit suicide in a terrorist attack.

It was my advice that we ALL be more careful with our analogies. Jick deserved his scolding - he's deserved it for years. But we must be careful in comparing people to those who kill "for a cause".

By the way, I felt Edge's comments in the postcard were utterly brilliant.

 

[starsgoblue]

i totally understand what you are saying.
when that occurred, bono at more than one concert reacted to the USA chants with "Up Ireland anyone?"
sort of like, "we're all in this together, mates."

that's pretty much what this election is about. vote for the guy who responds to the terrorists by flexing his muscles and chanting usa or the guy who thinks it might be better for the whole world to solve this thing together.
i am glad edge is speaking out on this.

Exactly. I was standing there my arms up, making the peace signs...and it sounded like I was stuck in some terrifying frat party. I was embarrassed...I mean I think someone that connects with U2 would see why.

I agree with the muscle flexing vs. compromise/cooperation analogy too.

 

[ramblin rose]

It bothered me, but I do not feel I overreacted at all.

If you or I or any other member of this forum were to have used that same analogy, we would have been called on it - by our fellow forum members and most likely the mods. This has happened in the past when "Hitler" analogies were tossed about a bit too liberally.

My comments were not about Edge's words overall. Jick has deserved them - he's deserved them since 1997, when he used to post (as J then) on the old WIRE questioning U2. Jick may come up with new ideas, but he always writes in an extremely negative and deragatory manner. Edge had every right to respond to such drivel.

What I didn't appreciate was Edge's loose analogy. Jick may be very negative and he does indeed write inflammatory comments - but to say this is just like terrorists was extreme - VERY extreme. Negative comments about a band is not the same as inciting countryman to commit suicide in a terrorist attack.

It was my advice that we ALL be more careful with our analogies. Jick deserved his scolding - he's deserved it for years. But we must be careful in comparing people to those who kill "for a cause".

By the way, I felt Edge's comments in the postcard were utterly brilliant.

Hmmmm, well I don't think I actually said I was talking about you?

I did read your post in the other thread, but decided at the time that I wanted more to let that thread drop to the bottom than respond. Also, you definately have a right to your feel the way you do, nothing to criticize there.

I guess what really bothers me in the end is that Edge doesn't have the same advantage as we do when he posts. You or I post something that maybe some people find a little (or very inflamatory) but we can hide behind our computers, you don't know me and I don't know you. Edge was kind and gracious enough to post as himself, posted something that hit a nerve with some people and some people jumped down his throat, (and I don't mean you).

Like I said before, what he said didn't strike a nerve with me, and I think that some people overreacted, but that's just my opinion.

It's all good.

 

[bathiu]

Damn straight TLT. When are we gonna here an artist come out in favor of Democracy in Afghanistan. Democracy in Iraq.

...ahem... the Talibans (sp?) have almost all control over the Afghanistan again (smaller cities, villages etc)... someone probably was to busy with another war to finish everything there...
...also, there wont be any democracy in Iraq as long as there is Oil all over the land and as long Bush will be the president with his family and his "loyal" Saudi friends interested in this oil...

 

[caragriff]

Bono wants to complain about getting money from Fundamentalist groups is like getting blood from a stone. That maybe true, so prove them wrong. Tour for Africa.

Bono's been on tour for Africa for the past 3 freaking years non-stop.
His life has practically become a tour for Africa.
He could give all his money to the cause and it would buy medicine for what, a day? a week?
Gimme a breaK.
He is trying to work to change the "structure" of poverty.

 

[sharky]

Hmm...Edge needs to start making his way to Free Your Mind.

 

[adam3000]

I can assume Bono was wondering about the response that he got...I mean this is a man that would always drape himself in the white flag.

Bono will drape himself in any flag to win the crowd. Superbowl USA Flag Jacket liner anyone?

Everyone needs to see the South Park episode where the kids have to write a report on the constitution and Cartman has a dream sequence where he goes back to when they were writing it and comes back with the moral "We need all you hippie peace freaks so all the other countries won't think we're assholes, but we need all the gung ho war jerks so all the other countries won't invade us and kick our asses."

To argue all peace or all war is a little silly. No one wants war, but sometimes it is necessary. Look at Russia now. Look at Germany. Look at Afganistan. Look to Iraq's future. Democracy and Liberty is the cause of America in war. You may not like all the frat-guy, meat heads chanting "USA! USA!", but they are the reason you aren't saying the pledge to the swastika flag or standing in line for toliet paper in a communist grocery line. Kerry said we couldn't win against the communists. But now Russia is a free nation.

 

[starsgoblue]

Bono's been on tour for Africa for the past 3 freaking years non-stop.
His life has practically become a tour for Africa.
He could give all his money to the cause and it would buy medicine for what, a day? a week?
Gimme a breaK.
He is trying to work to change the "structure" of poverty.

Exactly. This problem is rooted at a foundational level. Sure, you could hire a contractor to come in and patch over the cracks but in a short time the cracks will resurface. To make a lasting impact the foundation itself needs to be fixed....the AIDS crisis is bound up in the inequity of poverty. This is possible if people could move beyond just being morally convicted that this is the right thing to do and actually rolled up thier sleeves and got thier hands dirty.

Bono can't do this all on his own and it would unfair to expect him to do so. I liken him to John the Baptist....Bono is a voice crying out in the wilderness--are you going to answer?
James 1:27

 

[bathiu]

To argue all peace or all war is a little silly. No one wants war, but sometimes it is necessary. Look at Russia now. Look at Germany. Look at Afganistan. Look to Iraq's future.

I don't like to repeat myself... but..

...ahem... the Talibans (sp?) have almost all control over the Afghanistan again (smaller cities, villages etc)... someone probably was to busy with another war to finish everything there...
...also, there wont be any democracy in Iraq as long as there is Oil all over the land and as long Bush will be the president with his family and his "loyal" Saudi friends interested in this oil...

...and please, if there's at least a little bit of logic left in you, not killed by Bush's propaganda - don't compare WW2 and Cold War to this pointles war in Iraq...

 

[starsgoblue]

Bono will drape himself in any flag to win the crowd. Superbowl USA Flag Jacket liner anyone?

That statement in completley ignorant. Bono is a fan of America...rather the ideals that America professes to have. To say that his jacket was some sort of attempt to win over the crowd is silly--at this point in his career he doesn't have to prove a damn thing to anyone. Just because he is Irish does that mean that he couldn't have empathized with 9/11? America is not an incular island my friend. And I'd rather be called a "hippie peace freak" over a "gung ho war jerk" anytime.

 

[U2_Guy]

adam3000, are you for real?

You're so full of ... that i even wonder: are you an U2 fan?

You sound just like the half of USA the world dislike so much... And the half of America that keeps asking in naivety "why the world thinks we are arrogant, why the world hates us, we only invaded Iraq seeking to bring democracy to this poor ppl (not oil to ourselves)?"

Hard to believe you are an U2 fan...

 

[tlt29]

U2_Guy - You do realize it would have been cheaper to simply buy Saddam's oil than to remove him from authority, correct?

 

[bathiu]

to buy oil - private money
to remove Saddam - public money

 

[caragriff]

U2_Guy - You do realize it would have been cheaper to simply buy Saddam's oil than to remove him from authority, correct?

but then haliburton would not have been able to move into iraq and bleed the u.s. treasury dry by getting the oil themselves.................

 

[starsgoblue]

"To be one is a great thing. But to respect differences may
be even greater"


Let's try to remain in the spirit of love here, ok?

 

[tlt29]

...ugh...

I should really just revert back to not commenting on political situations, because it gets you nowhere.

 

[starsgoblue]

...ugh...

I should really just revert back to not commenting on political situations, because it gets you nowhere.

You have as much right as any of us to comment and I welcome your thoughts...I was just asking that it remained respectful as I could feel the heat beggining to come across the posts.

 

[tlt29]

Stars - that comment wasn't aimed at anyone in particular. It was more of a general statement.

I'm new to this board, but I've posted on plenty of other message boards (baseball-related), and we've had some heated political debates. I've found that it's best for me not to get involved in those types of discussions among people I consider "friends" as it usually just ends up in a pissing match since nobody is going to change the other's way of thinking.

Just a little rule I try to follow, and I unfortunately broke it in this instance.

 

[VertiGone]

Personally, i like it when Edge writes postcards about new songs and food rather than his opinion on politics. mmmm....All because of you....mmmm.....food.....

 

[u2ulysses]

Hmmmm, well I don't think I actually said I was talking about you?

I did read your post in the other thread, but decided at the time that I wanted more to let that thread drop to the bottom than respond. Also, you definately have a right to your feel the way you do, nothing to criticize there.

I guess what really bothers me in the end is that Edge doesn't have the same advantage as we do when he posts. You or I post something that maybe some people find a little (or very inflamatory) but we can hide behind our computers, you don't know me and I don't know you. Edge was kind and gracious enough to post as himself, posted something that hit a nerve with some people and some people jumped down his throat, (and I don't mean you).

Like I said before, what he said didn't strike a nerve with me, and I think that some people overreacted, but that's just my opinion.

It's all good.

Oh, and I didn't think you meant me specifically - but I was one of those who commented about Edge's words.

I completely agree that Edge can't completely hide behind his computer. That said, I have a far greater likelihood of meeting you (say, at some U2 concert) than I do of The Edge. Therefore, I feel his kindness and graciousness are something we ALL have and share. I feel it is just as kind and gracious for you to write as it is for The Edge. Your time is valuable (and if it isn't, that's for you to change).

I have infinite respect for the Edge, but I have that for everyone here, even if I do find them annoying. And I feel that everyone should be equal. Yes, this site is dedicated to U2, but they deserve no more respect than what we should all give to each other every day. Hence, words that can incite one way or the other shouldn't be used unless needed. One thing I've admired about Bono's speeches is that he's able to eloquently present his case (concerning DATA) without any inflammatory remarks. His words cause people to think - and that's what's needed.

Fortunately, Edge is also very eloquent, albeit more forthcoming. Still, there is an advantage there as well.

 

[starsgoblue]

Stars - that comment wasn't aimed at anyone in particular. It was more of a general statement.

I'm new to this board, but I've posted on plenty of other message boards (baseball-related), and we've had some heated political debates. I've found that it's best for me not to get involved in those types of discussions among people I consider "friends" as it usually just ends up in a pissing match since nobody is going to change the other's way of thinking.

Just a little rule I try to follow, and I unfortunately broke it in this instance.

No that's cool...I was just saying to everyone more or less. If people aren't open to the possibility of being shown a new way of thinking then that's just unforetunate. I might not always nessacarily change my mind but I am always willing to afford some one the chance to show me how they see things.

 

[adam3000]

One thing I've admired about Bono's speeches is that he's able to eloquently present his case without any inflammatory remarks.

Bono does present himself well. Always challenging. Always respectful. The Edge is always respectful also. In fact his postcard wasn't infamatory. Where as some of my comments might have been. I did find myself getting kind of heated.

I do find comparing John Whinthrop, a puritan preacher, to John Kerry, who believes religion has no part in public life, a little bit ironic. Especially since "City On A Hill" was last the big calling card of Reagan. Even more so because Reagan built up the military and Kerry in the debates last night said he would start dissarming our nuclear program when he gets into office.

But I guess the Kerry line of thinking matches up with the new U2 HTDAAB. Oh well, I'm a fan of the music not the politics. Guess when I attend a concert next year 50% of attendees will agree with Bush and 50% will agree with Kerry. So I'm all for polite, non-inflamitory discussion.

To borrow some words from the Edge. "Be Lucky." Everyone.

 

[starsgoblue]

Happy to see we all stepped back from the ledge....

 

[desire25]

To argue all peace or all war is a little silly. No one wants war, but sometimes it is necessary. Look at Russia now. Look at Germany. Look at Afganistan. Look to Iraq's future. Democracy and Liberty is the cause of America in war. You may not like all the frat-guy, meat heads chanting "USA! USA!", but they are the reason you aren't saying the pledge to the swastika flag or standing in line for toliet paper in a communist grocery line. Kerry said we couldn't win against the communists. But now Russia is a free nation....

ok in reference to the above quote.. just a little comment from me.
we were able to remove a dictator through a peaceful rally. there was military involved... there was defection from the marcos dictatorship but the civilians came in, a million or so marched into the main highway of the city. and now we are a free nation. there was no war. 22 yrs after , we removed an inept ambitious actor who thought being a president is just acting out the role of his life. again no war. no bloodshed. i hope the world learns a thing or two of how we did it in our country. funny though that we have been branded close to being a terrorist haven. we often hear news that we are on some superpowers list of countries to strike off your vacation list. strange. i dont think even think there are nuclear warheads aimed out our country.
we are a country of peace loving people. and i guess if you have strong adherence to peace, everything else can be achieved. yeah even removing a dictator. sometimes you can make it on your own.... peacefully.

 

[desire25]

correction... i meant 14 yrs after, not 22 yrs. the first was in 1986..the 2nd was in 2000. sorry!

 

[Jamila]

I wasn't here for all this discussion yesterday but I will say one thing: Edge has every right to say what's on his mind, whether it is about the war in Iraq, the Presidential election or maybe even music!

We must allow everyone the space and the respect to be themself and not to fit into some little box that we've decided that they belong in.

If Edge is going to feel comfortable posting here, we must try to find a way to get past his "star" status and allow him the space to SIMPLY BE!

He must be filling some niche in his life by being here, so just sit back and allow him to just be himself.

DON'T IDOLIZE HIM OR JUDGE HIM - JUST ENJOY HIM!

Although I did find his salad dressing comment on songwriting more to my liking!

GO EDGE ! And here are some smilies for you -

 

[ShellBeThere]

Wow, When did the Edge get so political?!

That he wrote this postcard is reminding me somehow of
a piece Garrison Keillor wrote in the NYTimes it was I think,
where he gave this great riffing rail against the current Republicans and then explained that he was inspired to submit this because as Dante said the hottest section of hell is reserved for those who do nothing in a crisis.

It's weird too to me in a wowy way that he talks like this about Kerry, cuz I just flashed this morning and posted in the "interference note about the edge" thread that I thought his terrorist comments were great, and so I'm feeling inspired to excerpt a bunch of that again below (sorry!)


I just flashed this morning on how Edge was really onto something with this terrorist analogy! As a technique in fact, not just as a metaphor.

I realized I do it all the time with my kids, and am having better success doing it with hubby too...as long as it's done with love, which I felt edge did.

You name the feeling. You catch the vibe and then you echo it back and it isn't the same trip anymore, it can dissolve away.

Usually with hubby when I accuse him of terrorist tactics ...I more often term it 'guerilla' tactics...the stick of dynamite thing is much better, I usually tell him instead that i'm sick of him hiding behind the chair and lobbing bombs at me and then running away the fucking coward...
I don't do it very lovingly and that backfires..oh does it backfire!

So, the terrorist shouldn't be thought of as not human, they are not hideous...the war is hideous, but the warrior is human (did you all hear John Kerry last night...don't mean to get political at all here!...use the 'don't confuse the war with the warrior' line?!
I'd switch it for clearer effect to 'don't confuse the warrior with the war' here, not sure why)

In naming the feeling, Edge --I felt like he was channeling Bono actually--named the terrorist, and it was actually a loving thing to do. Be the bomb, the stick of dynamite, in the face of the stick of dynamite, but with love, and you defeat it.
That's at a personal level, anyway, or at a performance-art level really.

And so now in my head on this particular trip I can't help but feel those quotes I recall seeing somewhere don't know where or maybe he actually said it in a show? probably not...
Bono talking about/being macphisto and vibing mock the devil and he will flee from thee?


I think Edge is clearly doing a different job in that postcard, he's trying to get people in a shorthand way to see why this is so important, why arrogance sucks.
Because it's the opposite of love.
It's a big lofty thing, a presidential election, and so he got the shining city on a hill happening and he praised someone who
was coming to America for it's being a beacon of *tolerance*.

Religion when it's waved around like GB does it...my gods he scared me silly last night in the debate with his rhetoric!..is a tool of intolerance, and it's kinda sorta almost exactly the same shit any hating group will do, no?

I am soo glad to hear that Edge wrote a fucking postcard on this issue because I was soo vibing last night that if Bush gets term-two it'll be like armageddon. Don't change horsemen mid-apocalypse, is his message...

OKay, sorry ...won't be political anymore, but will leave
now saying I'm really heart-warmed to see Edge trying to dismantle this particular atomic bomb!

cheers love and peace to all!

 

[beli]

Regardless of whether you agree with Edges politics, that postcard displays that Edge can be thoughtful and intelligent.

Not that respecting the musicians is important to loving the music, but tis nice to know he has a brain under that beanie.