Lemon Meringue
Rock n' Roll Doggie
So you couldn't read my blurry avatar! (I guess I need to find a better one.)
2003/2004 NHL Season
- Thread starter Edgeman
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
So you couldn't read my blurry avatar! (I guess I need to find a better one.)
IWasBored
Blue Crack Supplier
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2002
- Messages
- 36,783
either that or i have crap eyesight...i can read it now, but honeslty, i don't think i would have put two and two together (i'm really bad at adding) and figured out what it was...
AvsGirl41
New Yorker
And then you have poor Alex Tanguay, who simply wanted a multi-year, as promised. No pay raise. Just a guarantee he wouldn't have to re-negotiate for the third year in a row. 
Oh to be owner of the Avs and sign Pierre Lacroix to a one year. "Well, sorry Pierre...CBA and all...and it all depends if they win the Cup this season..."
Oh to be owner of the Avs and sign Pierre Lacroix to a one year. "Well, sorry Pierre...CBA and all...and it all depends if they win the Cup this season..."
Michael Griffiths
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Am I the only one who doesn't think Gaborik's being greedy? Here are the facts: Gaborik made $4 million last year because he cashed in with his bonuses. He simply asked for that same amount as a base this year instead. He proved himself by virtue of cashing in on his performance bonuses. Yet the Wild won't even give him this much. Here's a player who was the 2nd leading scorer in the entire NHL playoffs - one point out of 1st place - despite not even playing after the 2nd round! And all of this under Lemaire's defensive system in Minnesota of all teams! What's more is he hasn't even cracked his potential. He's still sooo young, and it's pretty much a gaurantee he's the next superstar in this league (likely starting this season, should he play). I think $4 million is a steal for that kind of player in today's NHL market.
Michael Griffiths
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Yeah, the Wild simply want him to "prove" himself for the next 3 or 4 years while he's locked into a cheap contract. Gaborik knows this, and for once I don't blame the player in this situation. There are plenty of overpaid players in the NHL who are ruining the game (Holik, Tkachuk, Jagr, etc), but Gaborik isn't trying to be one of them. If the Wild won't pay him $4 million, I'm sure there are many other teams who will *cough* Vancouver *cough* (though he's a restricted free agent). Man, if Gaborik scored 65 points on Minessota of all teams (where he was pretty much the sole offensive threat), imagine what he'd do on the Canucks? What a scary but beautiful picture to behold that would be...
As for Comrie, I don't know him personally, but judging him from the outside, I'd say he's being a baby. Any player who can't hack it because of "the pressure of playing in his home town" has to be scrutinized. If he can't deal with that kind of pressure, how's he going to deal with playoff pressure or any other kind of intense pressure? I don't think I'd want a player like that on my team, though I'm being a bit harsh. There again, it might simply be a money issue.
As for Comrie, I don't know him personally, but judging him from the outside, I'd say he's being a baby. Any player who can't hack it because of "the pressure of playing in his home town" has to be scrutinized. If he can't deal with that kind of pressure, how's he going to deal with playoff pressure or any other kind of intense pressure? I don't think I'd want a player like that on my team, though I'm being a bit harsh. There again, it might simply be a money issue.
Pinball Wizard
Refugee
Gaborik left Minnesota with no intentions of returning.
Greed isn't an issue... there is a level of mediation between the owners/management and the players. Don't ever forget about the snake in the grass agent.
Greed isn't an issue... there is a level of mediation between the owners/management and the players. Don't ever forget about the snake in the grass agent.
Michael Griffiths
Rock n' Roll Doggie
I agree that his agent, Walsh, is a slimy creature, as is his partner, David Schatia. Gaborik "switched agents" so he could apparently "bring new blood into the negotiations" when in reality Walsh likely had it all planned that way from the outset. It gave the illusion of extending an olive branch while all it really did was get a manacing face out of the picture. The man behind the mask (Walsh) was still pulling the strings...and still is.
However, if what Gaborik says is true (namely that he changed his mind on the 6.5 figure to only asking for what he made last season including bonuses, which was $4 million), I think the Wild made a serious mistake. They might end up losing their franchise player because of it.
However, if what Gaborik says is true (namely that he changed his mind on the 6.5 figure to only asking for what he made last season including bonuses, which was $4 million), I think the Wild made a serious mistake. They might end up losing their franchise player because of it.
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i dont know who to side with
its the incentives that screwed the wild last year
it makes it difficult because does he deserve a raise from his base salary of 1.075 last year, or his salary plus incentives?
if you just compare base salaries, the wild are offering 3+million which would be a huge raise, but if you take into account incentives he earned, its a pay cut
i think 4+ million is a little much for someone as unproven as him, i mean he could put up big numbers, but ive seen a number of blues put up big numbers at an early age and quickly fade away (see Jim Campbell)
so i can see both sides of the argument. what id try to do is set up a base salary of around 2.5 million, with similiar types of incentives that could bring the deal up to 4.5-5 million
so that way he will get an increase in his base salary, and then if he performs like he did before he will also get an increase in total salary
its the incentives that screwed the wild last year
it makes it difficult because does he deserve a raise from his base salary of 1.075 last year, or his salary plus incentives?
if you just compare base salaries, the wild are offering 3+million which would be a huge raise, but if you take into account incentives he earned, its a pay cut
i think 4+ million is a little much for someone as unproven as him, i mean he could put up big numbers, but ive seen a number of blues put up big numbers at an early age and quickly fade away (see Jim Campbell)
so i can see both sides of the argument. what id try to do is set up a base salary of around 2.5 million, with similiar types of incentives that could bring the deal up to 4.5-5 million
so that way he will get an increase in his base salary, and then if he performs like he did before he will also get an increase in total salary
Lemon Meringue
Rock n' Roll Doggie
http://wild.com/team/003/566/
Risebrough Statement Regarding Marian Gaborik
October 27, 2003
MINNESOTA WILD RESPONSE FROM DOUG RISEBROUGH REGARDING
ALLAN WALSH AND DAVID SCHATIA STATEMENT ON MARIAN GABORIK
SAINT PAUL/MINNEAPOLIS, Minn. ? Minnesota Wild President and General Manager Doug Risebrough released the following response today in regards to the Allan Walsh and David Schatia statement on Marian Gaborik:
* The Minnesota Wild foundation and success has always been about Team first and not one player.
* Gaborik?s agents have disrespected the abilities and accomplishments of his teammates and have demanded that Marian be treated differently.
* The Minnesota Wild repeatedly asked Allan Walsh to negotiate all summer and until the beginning of Training Camp. He refused.
* Gaborik?s camp refused to consider negotiating until four weeks after camp started.
* The Minnesota Wild offered Gaborik the largest contract in history for a player his age, which would, on average, triple Gaborik?s salary from last season.
Risebrough Statement Regarding Marian Gaborik
October 27, 2003
MINNESOTA WILD RESPONSE FROM DOUG RISEBROUGH REGARDING
ALLAN WALSH AND DAVID SCHATIA STATEMENT ON MARIAN GABORIK
SAINT PAUL/MINNEAPOLIS, Minn. ? Minnesota Wild President and General Manager Doug Risebrough released the following response today in regards to the Allan Walsh and David Schatia statement on Marian Gaborik:
* The Minnesota Wild foundation and success has always been about Team first and not one player.
* Gaborik?s agents have disrespected the abilities and accomplishments of his teammates and have demanded that Marian be treated differently.
* The Minnesota Wild repeatedly asked Allan Walsh to negotiate all summer and until the beginning of Training Camp. He refused.
* Gaborik?s camp refused to consider negotiating until four weeks after camp started.
* The Minnesota Wild offered Gaborik the largest contract in history for a player his age, which would, on average, triple Gaborik?s salary from last season.
Lemon Meringue
Rock n' Roll Doggie
I'll post this last thing and then I'll quit
http://startribune.com/stories/506/4178802.html
Dan Barreiro: Wild, Gaborik both at fault in contract squabble
Dan Barreiro,?Star Tribune
Published October 28, 2003
DANB28
Reunited, Paul Simon and Art Garfunkel played at the Xcel Energy Center on Sunday and Monday nights as part of their Old Friends Tour.
It took the better part of 20 years for the anger to recede, the egos to be soothed and the terms to be negotiated.
That might be a walk in Central Park compared to getting the Wild and Marian Gaborik back together in the very same arena.
Hello darkness, my old friend.
Yes, if you're a dedicated puckhead, things are getting mighty dim in the State of Hockey.
On the ice, the Wild is starting to look like just another faceless, and slightly hapless, expansion team. Off the ice, the Wild suddenly has the baggage of an aging franchise forced to deal with major, contract-related acrimony.
On Monday, Gaborik, through one of his agents, issued a statement that appears to mean that yet another serious stalemate has been reached. Does that mean the Wild will be Gabby-less for the rest of the season?
In the "Yesterday I was lying, today I'm telling the truth" world of sports executives, agents and players, you learn to rule out no possibility; yesterday's negotiating mountain can magically turn into a molehill overnight.
But this mountain looks fairly immovable.
The Wild clearly is dug in. Once General Manager Doug Risebrough went public with the team's latest offer, it became obvious that the Wild was not going to budge in any significant way.
The Gaborik side is looking for brownie points for dropping its contract demand from $6.5 million a season to $4.5 million in just a couple of weeks.
Some people might say: "Wow. A $2 million drop. This is a significant sign of goodwill by the Gaborik camp."
Moved by this gesture? About as moved as if a snake-oil salesman came to my door.
All this "gesture" points out is just how ludicrous the $6.5 million figure was in the first place. You pick a number that high, and of course $4.5 million is suddenly going to sound reasonable.
In his statement, Gaborik says, "I offered to sign a contract for the same gross pay I earned in each of the last two seasons." Agent David Schatia continues to say the Wild, in offering $9.5 million over three seasons, is asking Gaborik to make less than he made last season.
This is as misleading as it is disingenuous. Guaranteed money is important to players. Many of them will tell you it is everything to them.
A year ago, Gaborik was guaranteed $1.075 million. Over three years, the Wild is offering a guaranteed $9.5 million, including $3 million for next season.
That's almost a $2 million increase in guaranteed money over last season, even if Gaborik falls on his face and scores seven goals, and the Wild misses the playoffs.
Last season, Gaborik made another $3.4 million in incentive bonuses.
So, what he is really saying is that the Wild will not guarantee him what he made through salary and incentives last season. The Gaborik camp has decided that this must be the starting point for negotiations. Of course, you will never quite hear anybody from the Gaborik camp put it this way because it doesn't make management sound quite as evil.
The Wild's hands are not clean, either. In the new proposed deal, the incentives are so absurd that, with this team's offense, there is a good chance Gaborik would not be able to attain the numbers to make a serious jump, even if he instantly turned into a blend of Wayne Gretzky, Gordie Howe and Stan Mikita.
The incentives have gone from being very makeable to quite laughable. At the end of the negotiations with Pascal Dupuis, the holdout blinked. The Wild stood firm, merely shifting $100,000 from one year to another. But given how much more significant Gaborik is to the Wild's future, the organization loses by playing the same game of hardball.
Whoever you want to pit as the villain here, the whole thing should stick in your craw. Or maybe it shouldn't at all. Maybe that's the problem here.
The best advice might be to stop letting both sides believe you're hanging on every twist and turn in the negotiations.
Nothing gets older quicker than management and agent spin-doctoring their way through a contract impasse. Yet every word gets reported as if the fate of Western civilization hangs in the balance.
That's why these folks take themselves so seriously in the first place. That's why they can make a production of announcing, a day or two in advance, that important e-mail updates could be coming.
Maybe the answer is to ignore them all, until there is a real resolution that either reunites Gaborik with the Wild, or makes their divorce more permanent than Simon's with Garfunkel.
http://startribune.com/stories/506/4178802.html
Dan Barreiro: Wild, Gaborik both at fault in contract squabble
Dan Barreiro,?Star Tribune
Published October 28, 2003
DANB28
Reunited, Paul Simon and Art Garfunkel played at the Xcel Energy Center on Sunday and Monday nights as part of their Old Friends Tour.
It took the better part of 20 years for the anger to recede, the egos to be soothed and the terms to be negotiated.
That might be a walk in Central Park compared to getting the Wild and Marian Gaborik back together in the very same arena.
Hello darkness, my old friend.
Yes, if you're a dedicated puckhead, things are getting mighty dim in the State of Hockey.
On the ice, the Wild is starting to look like just another faceless, and slightly hapless, expansion team. Off the ice, the Wild suddenly has the baggage of an aging franchise forced to deal with major, contract-related acrimony.
On Monday, Gaborik, through one of his agents, issued a statement that appears to mean that yet another serious stalemate has been reached. Does that mean the Wild will be Gabby-less for the rest of the season?
In the "Yesterday I was lying, today I'm telling the truth" world of sports executives, agents and players, you learn to rule out no possibility; yesterday's negotiating mountain can magically turn into a molehill overnight.
But this mountain looks fairly immovable.
The Wild clearly is dug in. Once General Manager Doug Risebrough went public with the team's latest offer, it became obvious that the Wild was not going to budge in any significant way.
The Gaborik side is looking for brownie points for dropping its contract demand from $6.5 million a season to $4.5 million in just a couple of weeks.
Some people might say: "Wow. A $2 million drop. This is a significant sign of goodwill by the Gaborik camp."
Moved by this gesture? About as moved as if a snake-oil salesman came to my door.
All this "gesture" points out is just how ludicrous the $6.5 million figure was in the first place. You pick a number that high, and of course $4.5 million is suddenly going to sound reasonable.
In his statement, Gaborik says, "I offered to sign a contract for the same gross pay I earned in each of the last two seasons." Agent David Schatia continues to say the Wild, in offering $9.5 million over three seasons, is asking Gaborik to make less than he made last season.
This is as misleading as it is disingenuous. Guaranteed money is important to players. Many of them will tell you it is everything to them.
A year ago, Gaborik was guaranteed $1.075 million. Over three years, the Wild is offering a guaranteed $9.5 million, including $3 million for next season.
That's almost a $2 million increase in guaranteed money over last season, even if Gaborik falls on his face and scores seven goals, and the Wild misses the playoffs.
Last season, Gaborik made another $3.4 million in incentive bonuses.
So, what he is really saying is that the Wild will not guarantee him what he made through salary and incentives last season. The Gaborik camp has decided that this must be the starting point for negotiations. Of course, you will never quite hear anybody from the Gaborik camp put it this way because it doesn't make management sound quite as evil.
The Wild's hands are not clean, either. In the new proposed deal, the incentives are so absurd that, with this team's offense, there is a good chance Gaborik would not be able to attain the numbers to make a serious jump, even if he instantly turned into a blend of Wayne Gretzky, Gordie Howe and Stan Mikita.
The incentives have gone from being very makeable to quite laughable. At the end of the negotiations with Pascal Dupuis, the holdout blinked. The Wild stood firm, merely shifting $100,000 from one year to another. But given how much more significant Gaborik is to the Wild's future, the organization loses by playing the same game of hardball.
Whoever you want to pit as the villain here, the whole thing should stick in your craw. Or maybe it shouldn't at all. Maybe that's the problem here.
The best advice might be to stop letting both sides believe you're hanging on every twist and turn in the negotiations.
Nothing gets older quicker than management and agent spin-doctoring their way through a contract impasse. Yet every word gets reported as if the fate of Western civilization hangs in the balance.
That's why these folks take themselves so seriously in the first place. That's why they can make a production of announcing, a day or two in advance, that important e-mail updates could be coming.
Maybe the answer is to ignore them all, until there is a real resolution that either reunites Gaborik with the Wild, or makes their divorce more permanent than Simon's with Garfunkel.
AvsGirl41
New Yorker
Today is a very special day in the NHL.
Happy Birthday, Martin Skoula.
Happy Birthday, Martin Skoula.
Michael Griffiths
Rock n' Roll Doggie
From the article above:
"Yet every word gets reported as if the fate of Western civilization hangs in the balance."
LMAO! So true.
"Hello darkness, my old friend."
More like, "Hello Vancouver, my old friend."
But seriously, I don't think there should be any question as to whether Gaborik will perform as well as he did last year. The guy just oozez talent, and is a threat to score every time he's on the ice (just ask the Canucks how they liked playing against him last spring - yikes). He managed to score 65 points in possibly the tightest defensive system in the NHL, on a team with pretty much no offensive depth (even Pascal Dupuis only scored 48 points!). If he had been on an offensive team (say the Canucks), he would have been putting up Naslund and Bertuzzi type numbers. I mean the guy finished 2nd in playoff scoring despite being badly injured from the 2nd round, and he didn't even play in the finals! Yeah, you could say the guy is a superstar... and will definitely be one in the years to come. He's easily worth $4 million as a base. In fact, it would be a steal.
"Yet every word gets reported as if the fate of Western civilization hangs in the balance."
LMAO! So true.
"Hello darkness, my old friend."
More like, "Hello Vancouver, my old friend."
But seriously, I don't think there should be any question as to whether Gaborik will perform as well as he did last year. The guy just oozez talent, and is a threat to score every time he's on the ice (just ask the Canucks how they liked playing against him last spring - yikes). He managed to score 65 points in possibly the tightest defensive system in the NHL, on a team with pretty much no offensive depth (even Pascal Dupuis only scored 48 points!). If he had been on an offensive team (say the Canucks), he would have been putting up Naslund and Bertuzzi type numbers. I mean the guy finished 2nd in playoff scoring despite being badly injured from the 2nd round, and he didn't even play in the finals! Yeah, you could say the guy is a superstar... and will definitely be one in the years to come. He's easily worth $4 million as a base. In fact, it would be a steal.
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Lilly
Rock n' Roll Doggie FOB
gabby should go to vancouver. see ya later gaborik.
raw talent? yes. tons. i'm truly jealous of his talents.
does he know how to apply them in a team setting? no. not really. i've seen dictators with more team playing skills.
it took him all of last season before he got to the point at which he discovered the "pass it to my teammates, they'll pass it to me" perspective.
who would've taught a young, raw talent how to play on a team??? can't be cult leader jacques lemaire, can it?! uh yes, it can.
gabby left with no intentions of coming back to the wild, true. but it seems he doesn't realize what he had in minnesota. "low" pay? i guess. assured skills development so that someday when he is actually a good all around player he could sign a huge multi-million dollar deal with another team if he so chose? guess not.
raw talent? yes. tons. i'm truly jealous of his talents.
does he know how to apply them in a team setting? no. not really. i've seen dictators with more team playing skills.
it took him all of last season before he got to the point at which he discovered the "pass it to my teammates, they'll pass it to me" perspective.
who would've taught a young, raw talent how to play on a team??? can't be cult leader jacques lemaire, can it?! uh yes, it can.gabby left with no intentions of coming back to the wild, true. but it seems he doesn't realize what he had in minnesota. "low" pay? i guess. assured skills development so that someday when he is actually a good all around player he could sign a huge multi-million dollar deal with another team if he so chose? guess not.
AvsGirl41
New Yorker
A historic night in Colorado!! (Sorry, cujo)
The big question--will Montreal follow suit?
The big question--will Montreal follow suit?
zoney!
ONE love, blood, life
Barreiro and the Star Trib sports staff
Michael Griffiths
Rock n' Roll Doggie
I see Weight got a hat trick. Good for Dougie. I don't like him much anymore though after what he said about Nazzy, Bert, and Mo last spring, but he's a great player.
I wonder if Cujo will steal the starting position from Hasek if Dom continues down this path? Should be interesting...
I wonder if Cujo will steal the starting position from Hasek if Dom continues down this path? Should be interesting...
Michael Griffiths
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Actually Cujo is getting the start on Thursday against Nashville. Dave Lewis just announed it following Hasek's meltdown against the Blues. Legace will be the backup on Thursday. This is getting really interesting...
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news?slug=ap-redwings-joseph&prov=ap&type=lgns
Joseph to start Thursday against Nashville
October 29, 2003
DETROIT (AP) -- Detroit Red Wings goaltender Curtis Joseph will get his first of the season against the Nashville Predators on Thursday night.
Detroit coach Dave Lewis announced his decision following the Red Wings' 6-5 loss to St. Louis on Wednesday night.
Joseph will be making his first NHL start since undergoing surgery Aug. 19 to remove bone chips from his right ankle. He made a rehabilitation start Oct. 24 for Grand Rapids of the AHL and had 20 saves in his first minor league hockey game in eight seasons.
The Red Wings are looking to trade Joseph since six-time Vezina Trophy winner Dominik Hasek ended his one-year retirement. Joseph, who carries an $8 million salary, is in his 15th NHL season.
Manny Legace will be Joseph's backup against Nashville. Legace replaced Hasek early in the second period of Wednesday night's against St. Louis after Hasek allowed four goals on 13 shots.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news?slug=ap-redwings-joseph&prov=ap&type=lgns
Joseph to start Thursday against Nashville
October 29, 2003
DETROIT (AP) -- Detroit Red Wings goaltender Curtis Joseph will get his first of the season against the Nashville Predators on Thursday night.
Detroit coach Dave Lewis announced his decision following the Red Wings' 6-5 loss to St. Louis on Wednesday night.
Joseph will be making his first NHL start since undergoing surgery Aug. 19 to remove bone chips from his right ankle. He made a rehabilitation start Oct. 24 for Grand Rapids of the AHL and had 20 saves in his first minor league hockey game in eight seasons.
The Red Wings are looking to trade Joseph since six-time Vezina Trophy winner Dominik Hasek ended his one-year retirement. Joseph, who carries an $8 million salary, is in his 15th NHL season.
Manny Legace will be Joseph's backup against Nashville. Legace replaced Hasek early in the second period of Wednesday night's against St. Louis after Hasek allowed four goals on 13 shots.
Michael Griffiths
Rock n' Roll Doggie
So Lemieux just became the 6th player ever to attain 1700 career points. Lemieux joins Wayne Gretzky (2,857 points), Gordie Howe (1,850), Mark Messier (1,846), Marcel Dionne (1,771) and Carolina Hurricanes captain Ron Francis (1,760 points) on the 1,700-point list. He made a great little back hand pass through someone's legs, hitting the WIDE open man, while doing a circle back to the blue line. Looked like a certain other centerman I know of. 
On an unrelated note...whenever people try and defend Lemieux as the greatest player of all time, they always cite his better points per game average than Gretzky's. Of course this reasoning is flawed: Gretzky has a much better points per game average over his prime seasons than Lemieux does. Take, for example, Lemieux's 1700th milestone point tonight. It took him 887 games to reach it. It took Gretzky only 711 games. Yet people still insist on bringing up Gretzky's points per game average! Ah, the irony.
That said, I congratulate Mario on the milestone. He's an amazing player, and we're lucky to have the last of the greats still playing. Enjoy him while you can...
On an unrelated note...whenever people try and defend Lemieux as the greatest player of all time, they always cite his better points per game average than Gretzky's. Of course this reasoning is flawed: Gretzky has a much better points per game average over his prime seasons than Lemieux does. Take, for example, Lemieux's 1700th milestone point tonight. It took him 887 games to reach it. It took Gretzky only 711 games. Yet people still insist on bringing up Gretzky's points per game average! Ah, the irony.
That said, I congratulate Mario on the milestone. He's an amazing player, and we're lucky to have the last of the greats still playing. Enjoy him while you can...
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Pinball Wizard
Refugee
TheFly7 said:
Hahaha.
You Colorado fans slay me. The night could have only been better, had they raised Roy himself to the rafters.
Anyway, enough blatant goalie worship...
You like how Hasek isn't even gonna be on the bench at the Nashville game? I think there should be a good old fashioned death match to decide the wing's crease duties. The keswick kid would make short work of the pardubice pansy. Although, Hasek would probably just roll around on the ground, whilst trying to dislodge the net.
I love Prague theater.
LarryMullen's POPAngel
Blue Crack Distributor
Lemon Meringue
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Good game tonight. The Wild are starting to gel. Nice way to start a home stand.
Wild 3
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Wild 3
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