Lola's at it again

[mystery girl]

This whole discussion is getting really annoying.
No, he does not need to fix anything so you or anyone else having a problem with him can sleep better.
These are your problems, not his.
People's expectations and opinions are not his problem.
He cannot live to make everyone happy, it's impossible.
Anyone can live the way they want to live as long as they are not hurting anyone.
Please stop assuming that Bono does not donate money. He does not need to make it public. Making donations public is pathetic. He is publicly helping on a different level. He does what he can and the work and time and effort he is spending on these issues can hardly be matched by any other famous person.

Because Bono tries to influence governments, leaders etc. to spend the money of the people they represent in particular ways, people's expectations and opinions of him are, in fact, his problem. No one would care (as much, anyway) about whether or not Bono appears to be a hypocrite if he did not do this kind of work. Which is good work, that I admire him for, by the way. But I am pretty certain that because he is involved in this kind of work, he does not want people to "have a problem" with him. How likely would it be for the U.S government to commit to the $1 billion in Aids funding he is apparently seeking (see article "Bono unhappy after meeting Democrats") if a large proportion of Americans had negative expectations and opinions of Bono? If this became the case, he could do more good by not associating himself with the cause at all. He only has "celebrity currency" if people have positive expectations and opinions of him.

 

[nikkyjade]

It's his business how he spends his money, or should he report and justify anything he does with it? So he's rich and likes a fancy lifestyle, that's nothing new.


The issue is what the world governments are about to do with their money. Not what Paul Hewson does (which I believe to be more effective than smoking all his money in 1 day for Africa).

exactly. just because you would spend your money in certain way U2Kitten, doesnt mean Bono has to do the same. Bono spends a great deal of time and effort on this issue. and as someone has already said Bono has always stated "its not about charity. its about justice"

which of course doesn't get nearly as covered as the "Bono wants his hat" stories) or that his activism is hypocritical.

of course because this makes Bono look ridiculous so it sells papers. and the media has a field day on stories like this or the tax thing...the media like to manipulate them and twist facts so the public doesnt get the proper story. thats why all these "non-U2 fans" have different opinions because we as fans read up on the correct information and are able to form a more justified opinion...whether that supports or criticises Bono's actions is down to our beliefs


i also believe this arguement is getting nowhere. it seems U2kitten is not seeing our point of view. i take your point of view on board and i even said earlier that i too can see why the public may see Bono as a hypocrite. also Bono knows he has set himself up for criticism but i dont see what he is doing is so bad for you to make such assumptions about him and what he does and doesnt do?? generosity and passion and his desire to help people is not and should not be ALL about the MONEY.

 

[Galeongirl]

the only hypocrite here isn't Bono, it's the media.

 

[last unicorn]

mystery girl, you are right, but you cannot expect everyone to have a positive opinion about Bono. That would be quite scary, wouldn't it? He has to convince the people who really matter and I think he's doing a great job here. Many people will never like him, not matter what he does or how he does it simply because he's a rich celebrity.
People who really change things in this world have always be critisized and there has always been controversy surrounding public figures.
I don't support everything Bono does, man, sometimes it's getting all too much for me, but I believe in him and I believe he has his convictions and he's doing what he can. I guess you can tell that he is really concerned about these issues and that is what matters. Besides I think that a large amount of his work is done in the background and is not public at all. He's public appearances are only a very small part of his activism, but it is what people see in the media and what they judge him on in the end.

 

[nikkyjade]

the only hypocrite here isn't Bono, it's the media.

you hit the nail on the head there

 

[U2Kitten]

exactly. just because you would spend your money in certain way U2Kitten, doesnt mean Bono has to do the same. Bono spends a great deal of time and effort on this issue. and as someone has already said Bono has always stated "its not about charity. its about justice"

The point ALL of you are missing is of course he can spend it any way he wants, BUT he can't expect to be one way and speak another, or people will not take him seriously. And if they don't , he's not getting anywhere.

Who does Bono want money from? Governments. Where do governments get their money? From TAXES paid by me and you, something he is unwilling to do for his country, another reason he is a hypocrite.

I also believe this arguement is getting nowhere. it seems U2kitten is not seeing our point of view.

I see it but I disagree with it. All I can see is a bunch of girls jumping to the defense of their favorite rock star without seeing the REALITY of how this looks to others, and how important is that he look good to others to help his cause!!

The facts are, people DO see Bono as pretentious hyprocrite. This is NOT all the 'media's' fault. The people who I know who feel that way got that way from watching HIM in action. No matter how much you defend him, that doesn't change the fact that he has a very severe image problem with many other people outside of this site, and he needs to be concerned about that!


I have left this thread twice and tried to stay away, but the ridiculous ways my words have been either twisted or ignored is very frustrating.

 

[U2Kitten]

Because Bono tries to influence governments, leaders etc. to spend the money of the people they represent in particular ways, people's expectations and opinions of him are, in fact, his problem. No one would care (as much, anyway) about whether or not Bono appears to be a hypocrite if he did not do this kind of work. Which is good work, that I admire him for, by the way. But I am pretty certain that because he is involved in this kind of work, he does not want people to "have a problem" with him. How likely would it be for the U.S government to commit to the $1 billion in Aids funding he is apparently seeking (see article "Bono unhappy after meeting Democrats") if a large proportion of Americans had negative expectations and opinions of Bono? If this became the case, he could do more good by not associating himself with the cause at all. He only has "celebrity currency" if people have positive expectations and opinions of him.

This is a brilliant post! Those are all the points I am talking about! After all my posts, it could have been summed up by what you said here.

Look people, please read what she wrote. If you won't listen to me maybe you'll believe her. This is the whole thing in a nutshell!

 

[U2Kitten]

.

 

[Galeongirl]

I see it but I disagree with it. All I can see is a bunch of girls jumping to the defense of their favorite rock star without seeing the REALITY of how this looks to others, and how important is that he look good to others to help his cause!!

Do you really think we don't know how it looks to the outside world?

The difference between us and you is that we don't CARE whatever the fuck they say, as long as we know that they're wrong! Because as fans, we know more about Bono, we know more about what he does and how sincere he cares for these issues, and I couldn't give a shit about some random person calling Bono a damn hypocrite and a fag.

Why care about opinions of people who don't know what the hell they're talking about?

 

[last unicorn]

I believe the cause is much more important than Bono's personal image and it's beyond that.
In the end people should be convinced that help is needed in Africa, regardless of whether they like Bono or not.
And what good would it be for the poor if someone like him lived like them? That would change nothing.
When he goes to Africa, he's bringing money to the country, he's bringing attention and media coverage, more than the average guy could ever get, simply because Bono is famous.

 

[dazzlingamy]

The way i see it, is that Bono is doing his bit, trying to find his little patch to make him find life worthwhile. Of course he isn't going to make himself a pauper just to give people things, thats not what hes about, i see him as an educator, using his platform as a musician playing to huge crowds, to open up eyes that are closed to plights in the world and making us think. Do WE want to be a part of a world where people die from starvation or curable diseases. What do WE feel inside, and how can WE help. Be that, spreading awareness ourselves, giving money to charity, volunteering somewhere, whatever appease the guilt we feel for being born privilaged (and believe me, we ALL are)

I don't think its hypocrisy for U2 to stay at fancy hotels, and buy expensive things, its their money, they worked for it, they spend it how they want. Bono is not asking everyone to go bankrupt to help Africa while he sits back and preens in his fortune, his real mission is to get us to THINK. To look inside, and make an INFORMED descion about how we are going to leave our mark on the world.

Well thats how it feels to me.

 

[Liesje]

Oh, and when he goes to Africa he still manages to seek out the high dollar hotels after a day in the slums and shacks. Couldn't he just find a Motel 6 type of thing?(I've seen his hotel on TV specials, it is fancy) U2 has to have the most expensive of everything. During the Elevation tour, I spent about a half hour talking to one of the truck drivers who hauled their stuff around. He told me they lived 'a different kind of life' and would only stay in certain high end hotels, and in some cities, (like Charlotte for example) if there wasn't a hotel good enough for them, they'd stay hundreds of miles away and fly in for the show! If people live that high falootin', how can they nag anyone else? That's the point here.

Have you ever been to a hotel or hostel in Africa?

Anyway, Bono doesn't make the travel arrangements. When he goes to Africa - and I'm assuming the same for when they are on tour - there are only certain hotels that even know how to handle celebrities (which more refers to all the stalkers meandering about than the celebs themselves). Bono staying a a Motel 6 is a HUGE security risk to himself and his family (Ali was with him last time in African and his kids were there too the time before that).

I know I read in a U2 book that they try to get good accommodations for the tour staff. That means huge hotels that have enough rooms (they want everyone to have their own room), amenities, and experience dealing with that many people and the security required.

Many times on tour, Bono stays in his home in New York. For most of the shows on the East coast and even Midwest he was commuting directly from his own property. That's why he'd rather stay in his own place than some trashy hotel, a different one every night. Who would do differently?

Yeah, you're bringing up good points, but you're completely ignoring any logical reasoning behind them.

There's a difference between a leader and a martyr. Bono's not a martyr, never said he was, never wanted to be. You're trying to make a martyr out of him by asking him to sleep in trashy hotels, give away his money, etc. There's really no point.

Most of the people in my family are not U2 fans. Actually, everyone but my little sister either doesn't like or doesn't care about U2. But ALL of them have learned a lot from what Bono has done and said and all have come to respect the purpose behind it.

 

[last unicorn]

The experiences I mostly have with people who are not fans of U2 are that most of them don't even know much about Bono, simply because they don't watch much television and because he isn't much in the media here. I have had discussions with people who don't care much for U2's music, but many of them acknowledge Bono's efforts as an activist. Of course there are always haters who simply don't like him personally, but the majority of people has a neutral opinion on him or a rather positive one on his activism. To tell you the truth, I don't know many U2 fans personally, so the people I usually talk to or argue with are totally non-U2 fans. I found out that there are actually more people who are willing to respect Bono's political work than there are actually fans of his music.

 

[U2Fanatic4ever]

There's a difference between a leader and a martyr. Bono's not a martyr, never said he was, never wanted to be. You're trying to make a martyr out of him by asking him to sleep in trashy hotels, give away his money, etc. There's really no point.

OMG...EXACTLY! LIESJE!! This is exactly the point... U2Kitten and others..... Quit trying to make him out as a martyr as Liesje said.. We all know or should know that this was never his intention. He is not this kind of person and never was. Just not in his nature. He may be a meglomaniac but when it comes down to it a martyr he is NOT.

And if he is such a hypocrite then why are various gov'ts taking him pretty seriously when it comes to aid for africa? If it was so obvious don't you think that they would be balking at listening to what he has to say let alone give money to the cause. I mean he got numerous third world countries debt cancelled! Now that wasn't an easy task was it?

 

[U2isthebest]

This whole discussion is getting really annoying.
No, he does not need to fix anything so you or anyone else having a problem with him can sleep better.
These are your problems, not his.
People's expectations and opinions are not his problem.
He cannot live to make everyone happy, it's impossible.
Anyone can live the way they want to live as long as they are not hurting anyone.
Please stop assuming that Bono does not donate money. He does not need to make it public. Making donations public is pathetic. He is publicly helping on a different level. He does what he can and the work and time and effort he is spending on these issues can hardly be matched by any other famous person.

Bravo!! This is a perfect statement and absolutely true for Bono or anyone. I especially love the first four sentences. Thank you for that level-headed response!

 

[MsPurrl]

Too many people trying to mind other people's business

 

[Carmelu2fan]

Most of the people in my family are not U2 fans. Actually, everyone but my little sister either doesn't like or doesn't care about U2. But ALL of them have learned a lot from what Bono has done and said and all have come to respect the purpose behind it.

I totally agree with your last statement Lies, my mother heard about the RED campaign and was inspired to only buy lots of those products this year. She always liked Bono because of that. I have several friends, coworkers, etc, that are not fans but they are aware and admire Bono's goal to end poverty.

It is a fact -Bono is making an impact by raising awareness.

 

[kafrun]

Someone's at it again in this thread and it ain't Lola

 

[U2Kitten]

Lies, the reason your family are so high on Bono is likely because they have gotten their info on him from YOU. You have to remember, most people just look at how they see it. I said the problem is OUTSIDE the fan community and that includes fans' friends and family. Anyone exposed to an avid U2 fan is going to have a higher opinion of Bono than the average non fan or casual fan on the street.

 

[biff]

Who does Bono want money from? Governments. Where do governments get their money? From TAXES paid by me and you, something he is unwilling to do for his country, another reason he is a hypocrite.

Have you not read what others have said? This is a fact: He is perfectly willing to pay taxes for his country; he pays millions in taxes every year.

The facts are, people DO see Bono as pretentious hyprocrite. This is NOT all the 'media's' fault. The people who I know who feel that way got that way from watching HIM in action. No matter how much you defend him, that doesn't change the fact that he has a very severe image problem with many other people outside of this site, and he needs to be concerned about that!

It's unfortunate that the people you hang out with feel that way but I don't think they're representative of the general populace (who probably have NO view on this), nor are they at all representaive of the people with whom Bono deals directly in his work. I don't see why he "needs to be concerned" about what a few people that you know think about him. And he's always been villified in some sectors; I'm sure he's used to it. It's nothing new.
Of course, he has such a severe image problem that he was named Time's Person of the Year last year, has been several times nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize, and has been awarded countless other honours. I suspect none of the Bono-haters you are referring to were on those nomination committees. I do know where I've seen many of them though: on all of the venom-spewing message boards throughout the Internet, and it's not just Bono they hate but just about everyone.

the ridiculous ways my words have been either twisted or ignored is very frustrating.

LOL, that's pretty rich since you've ignored just about everything others have written in this thread, except when it agreed with you.

All I can see is a bunch of girls jumping to the defense of their favorite rock star without seeing the REALITY of how this looks to others, and how important is that he look good to others to help his cause!!

I think this "bunch of girls" (talk about insulting) are perfectly aware that there are plenty of people who don't like Bono and who call him a hypocrite. No one has disputed that at all. You seem to be shifting your argument here. Are you talking now about how he is perceived by some people? If so, then no one would be arguing with you. What you said earlier is that he IS a hypocrite who lives the high life and gives away none of his money and is all talk and no action. That's what people are disputing with you.

 

[U2isthebest]

Have you not read what others have said? This is a fact: He is perfectly willing to pay taxes for his country; he pays millions in taxes every year.



It's unfortunate that the people you hang out with feel that way but I don't think they're representative of the general populace (who probably have NO view on this), nor are they at all representaive of the people with whom Bono deals directly in his work. I don't see why he "needs to be concerned" about what a few people that you know think about him. And he's always been villified in some sectors; I'm sure he's used to it. It's nothing new.
Of course, he has such a severe image problem that he was named Time's Person of the Year last year, has been several times nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize, and has been awarded countless other honours. I suspect none of the Bono-haters you are referring to were on those nomination committees. I do know where I've seen many of them though: on all of the venom-spewing message boards throughout the Internet, and it's not just Bono they hate but just about everyone.



LOL, that's pretty rich since you've ignored just about everything others have written in this thread, except when it agreed with you.



I think this "bunch of girls" (talk about insulting) are perfectly aware that there are plenty of people who don't like Bono and who call him a hypocrite. No one has disputed that at all. You seem to be shifting your argument here. Are you talking now about how he is perceived by some people? If so, then no one would be arguing with you. What you said earlier is that he IS a hypocrite who lives the high life and gives away none of his money and is all talk and no action. That's what people are disputing with you.

Once again, Biff another brilliant post. You always have such well thought out and yet (should be) obvious arguments. Will you be my hero?

 

[lil_witch]

if only all the other celebs gave a quarter of the time and effort Bono gives to Africa, this, IMHO, would be a better world. To me it doesn't matter how he spends his money, he's earned it. He could just ignore all the other people, and just spend all his money in fancy cars, houses, luxuries, but he doesn't. And i respect him for that.

 

[Liesje]

Lies, the reason your family are so high on Bono is likely because they have gotten their info on him from YOU.

Of course they did, and I get most of my info from several sources other than Bono (though he corroborates all of it), namely 1) having studied development 2) having studied development and micro-finance IN East Africa 3) getting info from academic sources, not "news" articles posted on tabloid websites or huge newspapers that will say anything to sell copies.

Bono knows what he's talking about. The easiest way to tell is how much he's changed over the years, in what he says, what he does, what type of attitude we're seeing from him. It's obvious this isn't some pet charity for him. He's doing his homework and will even disagree with himself if he stands corrected.

You're criticizing others of being blind and only focusing on Bono, but all of your points stem from only focusing on Bono, if that makes sense. This issue isn't about Bono, and it's depressing to think that whether or not people care or are intelligently informed is based on their outward and shallow impressions of Bono. Personally, those of us who've devoted our lives (our money, our time, our careers, our educations) to dealing with this issue don't need those kind of people who will only care one way or the other because it's like a fad that Bono thinks is cool.

 

[biff]

You're criticizing others of being blind and only focusing on Bono, but all of your points stem from only focusing on Bono, if that makes sense. This issue isn't about Bono, and it's depressing to think that whether or not people care or are intelligently informed is based on their outward and shallow impressions of Bono. Personally, those of us who've devoted our lives (our money, our time, our careers, our educations) to dealing with this issue don't need those kind of people who will only care one way or the other because it's like a fad that Bono thinks is cool.

I agree with this 100%. I was about to make this point but you said it way better than I would have.

 

[biff]

Will you be my hero?

 

[U2isthebest]

*needs more room in my sig. to add all the girls who's awesomeness dismantles atomic bombs*

 

[Liesje]

I agree with this 100%. I was about to make this point but you said it way better than I would have.

Thank you.

I always appreciate other people's opinions and criticisms, but there's a difference between informed debate and calling people you don't even know a bunch of fan girls whose only opinions on this subject stem from Bono-drooling.

Quite the contrary. I will say that after doing the study in Tanzania, I found many points where I differed or even disagreed with Bono. However, these points are not really of any relevance to this thread.

 

[U2Fanatic4ever]

I have to say that both Liesje and Biff have made informed and significant points well throughout this thread. They certainly stand out from what I see so far..

 

[Babydoll]

I agree Lies...being from there as well I have had first-hand knowledge about what he does, and although there is a little that I don't agree with about what he does, I do know for a fact that he has done his utmost to help. Help is prolly not even the right word, since he isn't doing it out of pity and sympathy. In his words, it's all a matter of justice. How can he expect us to achieve economic growth when we are too busy paying off loans to the Western nations? In that regard, he's done a lot.

And to risk repeating myself, he's done plenty on the Aids issue as well as malaria and clean water. He's given money literally out of his pocket to a bunch of kids to "go enjoy themselves." That's been on several occasions.

 

[U2Fanatic4ever]

Lies, the reason your family are so high on Bono is likely because they have gotten their info on him from YOU. You have to remember, most people just look at how they see it. I said the problem is OUTSIDE the fan community and that includes fans' friends and family. Anyone exposed to an avid U2 fan is going to have a higher opinion of Bono than the average non fan or casual fan on the street.

So what you are saying is that friends and family of a avid U2 fan are a bunch of sheep and 'u2 groupies' by association and are going to agree with whatever Bono is doing 100%? And that he can do no wrong.

Everyone has an opinion and are going to assess whether or not they agree with his beliefs and what he is doing all on their own.

I can tell you from my own family not everyone necessarily agrees with everything he does but at the least they have respect for him and what he does and that his heart is in the right place.