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Old 09-18-2013, 08:53 PM   #561
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If the US conducted a quest for fusion power in the same fashion as the quest to put a man on the moon, we'd have a true long term solution to our energy & environmental concerns.
There's plenty of clusterfuck to achieve efficiency in nuclear fusion. Lack of skilled professionals, funding and optimal level of intelligence.

I'm pretty sure that another country, probably China or Russia, would have to develop the first solution with nuclear fusion before the US does it.
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Old 09-19-2013, 01:13 PM   #562
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There's plenty of clusterfuck to achieve efficiency in nuclear fusion. Lack of skilled professionals, funding and optimal level of intelligence.

I'm pretty sure that another country, probably China or Russia, would have to develop the first solution with nuclear fusion before the US does it.
I won't argue with you on that point. US investment in "green initiatives" has created a handful of wealthy people and few viable solutions.
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Old 09-19-2013, 01:44 PM   #563
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I won't argue with you on that point. US investment in "green initiatives" has created a handful of wealthy people and few viable solutions.
One possible solution is to limit government funding to "crowd sourced" and "open sourced" projects.
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Old 09-19-2013, 02:15 PM   #564
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government funding of "green" technologies pales in comparison to the welfare given to petroleum companies, even after they destroy the Gulf of Mexico or pristine Alaskan wilderness.
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Old 09-26-2013, 05:53 AM   #565
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Again, the Daily Mail is a tabloid. Are the climate change deniers really going to rely on a tabloid that mostly reports on celebrities to prove their point? I think you all can do a lot better than that.

I'll try.

Here's another one:
Global warming believers are feeling the heat – Telegraph Blogs
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Old 09-26-2013, 08:26 AM   #566
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Linking to some random blog of a journalist with no scientific background isn't exactly doing better.
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Old 09-26-2013, 08:43 AM   #567
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His self written intro:

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James Delingpole is a writer, journalist and broadcaster who is right about everything. He is the author of numerous fantastically entertaining books, including his most recent work Watermelons: How the Environmentalists are Killing the Planet, Destroying the Economy and Stealing Your Children's Future, also available in the US, and in Australia as Killing the Earth to Save It. His website is James Delingpole - Official Website.
Is this the kind of "source" you would accept from your students? I surely hope not. Let's forget about being taken seriously in here, but for your own sake in order to understand this issue you have to understand the legitimacy of your sources and learn to discern.

Lets start with something simple, do you respect modern science in general?
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Old 09-26-2013, 09:07 AM   #568
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Fail.

This looks like an example of someone thinking only those with opposing views can have facts wrong and even spread lies, and anyone - anyone - who supports their views can do or say no wrong.
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Old 09-26-2013, 09:13 AM   #569
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That's a good article that asks some interesting questions like:

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Others, such as the EU’s Climate Commissioner, Connie Hedegaard, steam on oblivious. Interviewed last week by the Telegraph’s Bruno Waterfield, she said: “Let’s say that science, some decades from now, said: 'We were wrong, it was not about climate’, would it not in any case have been good to do many of the things you have to do in order to combat climate change?” If she means needlessly driving up energy prices, carpeting the countryside with wind turbines and terrifying children about a problem that turns out to have been imaginary, then most of us would probably answer “No”.
Then there's this problem:

IPCC Investigator Laframboise: “Numerous IPCC Scientists With WWF Connections…IPCC Has Been Compromised”

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It is indeed interesting that of the 34 members of the IPCC editorial team that wrote the summary report, one third are connected to the WWF and Greenpeace. That is legitimate, but that has to be made transparent. Imagine just the opposite and the editorial team were one third Exxon supporters. Wouldn’t people say: ’Hello! Is that really necessary?’”
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Old 09-26-2013, 09:53 AM   #570
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That's a good article
This is a major problem. We have an entire faction of the engaging population that not only considers this an article, but a "good" one.


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It is indeed interesting that of the 34 members of the IPCC editorial team that wrote the summary report, one third are connected to the WWF and Greenpeace. That is legitimate, but that has to be made transparent. Imagine just the opposite and the editorial team were one third Exxon supporters. Wouldn’t people say: ’Hello! Is that really necessary?’”
Are you serious? Oscar let's put on your critical thinking cap. Do these people profit from these connections? So why is this concerning? If your life's work lead you to get involved how is that even an issue.

Would you find it concerning if a conservative politician was connected to a pro-life organization?

Now of course the opposite would be concerning, if you had scientist or politicians that were vocal about climate change being a hoax and you discovered they were profiting from Exxon then that would raise some eyebrows. Come on man, critical thinking will allow this conversation to move forward, this just leaves it dead in its tracks.
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Old 09-26-2013, 10:01 AM   #571
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Once "green" technologies become cheaper than fossil fuels (which is projected to occur within the next 10-15 years) - then the issue will resolve itself. Then the great effort to clean up the mess will get underway.
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Old 09-26-2013, 10:10 AM   #572
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From one my favorite books in the last few years...

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According to Travis Bradford, chief operating officer of the Carbon War Room and president of the Prometheus Institute for Sustainable Development, solar prices are falling 5 percent to 6 percent annually, and capacity is growing at a rate of 30 percent per year. So when critics point out that solar currently accounts for 1 percent of our energy, that’s linear thinking in an exponential world. Expanding today’s 1 percent penetration at an annual growth of 30 percent puts us eighteen years away from meeting 100 percent of our energy needs with solar.

And growth doesn’t end there, but it certainly gets interesting. Ten years later— twenty-eight years from now— at this rate we’d be producing 1,550 percent of today’s global energy needs via solar. And, even better, at the same time that production is going up, technology is making every electron go even further. Whether it’s the smart grid making energy use two- or threefold more efficient, or innovations like the LED lightbulb dropping the energy needed to light a room from one hundred watts to five watts, there is dramatic change ahead. With efficiencies lowering our usage and innovation increasing our supply, the combination really could produce a squanderable abundance of energy.

So what do we do with a squanderable abundance of energy? Of course, Metcalfe’s been thinking about this for some time. “First,” he proposes, “why not drop the price of energy by an order of magnitude, driving the planet’s economic growth through the roof? Second, we could truly open the space frontier, using that energy to send millions of people to the Moon or Mars. Third, with that amount of energy, you can supply every person on the Earth with the American standard of fresh, clean water every day. And fourth, how about using that energy to actually remove CO2 from the Earth’s atmosphere. I know a professor at the University of Calgary, Dr. David Keith, who has developed such a machine. Back it up with cheap energy, and we might even solve global warming. I’m sure there’s a much longer list of great examples.”

To see how much longer that list might be, I tweeted Metcalfe’s question. My favorite answer came from a Twitter handle BckRogers, who wrote: “All struggles are effectively conflicts over the energy potential of resources. So end war.” I’m not entirely sure it’s that simple, but considering everything we’ve discussed in this chapter, one thing seems certain: we are going to find out.

Kotler, Steven; Diamandis, Peter H. (2012-02-21). Abundance (pp. 172-173). Simon & Schuster, Inc.. Kindle Edition.
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Old 09-26-2013, 10:22 AM   #573
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I don't understand the uproar over replacing fossil fuels with green technology and energy. Oil won't last forever but the sun, wind and water will. Although a drought might hurt some things, but I'd think anyone who invents something that runs on water also invented a back-up plan.
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Old 09-26-2013, 11:49 AM   #574
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Once "green" technologies become cheaper than fossil fuels (which is projected to occur within the next 10-15 years) - then the issue will resolve itself. Then the great effort to clean up the mess will get underway.
It is perhaps my greatest hope in the world that you are correct.
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Old 09-27-2013, 10:09 AM   #575
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http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/27/world/...ngs/?hpt=hp_t1

The UN, what a bunch of quaks
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Old 09-27-2013, 10:23 AM   #576
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It is perhaps my greatest hope in the world that you are correct.
Mine as well, my friend...mine as well
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Old 09-27-2013, 10:31 AM   #577
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They are only 95% certain...so, there is a chance they're all wrong.

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Old 09-27-2013, 11:00 AM   #578
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While there may always may be an element of dogma with anything human's choose to support. Science tends to provide avenues through which to challenge prevailing opinion, hence why there is the acceptance of the possibility of being wrong.

But would you get into a car which 95 out of a hundred engineers were telling you the brakes would fail?

The whole why bother due to the cost of renewables is very self-defeating, that will only come down with more investment and to make them more widely available.

We shouldn't bother about world hunger, too expensive. Healthcare, ah fuck it, too expensive. Seems so very nihilistic.

The energy companies can well afford much more renewable investment and make profits, but because we're so focused on profit above all else, we're incredibly blinkered.
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Old 09-27-2013, 07:58 PM   #579
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His self written intro:

Is this the kind of "source" you would accept from your students? I surely hope not. Let's forget about being taken seriously in here, but for your own sake in order to understand this issue you have to understand the legitimacy of your sources and learn to discern.

Lets start with something simple, do you respect modern science in general?
Yikes, that's about as legit as citing Wikipedia.
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Old 09-27-2013, 08:08 PM   #580
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Are you serious? Oscar let's put on your critical thinking cap. Do these people profit from these connections? So why is this concerning? If your life's work lead you to get involved how is that even an issue.

Would you find it concerning if a conservative politician was connected to a pro-life organization?

Now of course the opposite would be concerning, if you had scientist or politicians that were vocal about climate change being a hoax and you discovered they were profiting from Exxon then that would raise some eyebrows. Come on man, critical thinking will allow this conversation to move forward, this just leaves it dead in its tracks.
It is critical thinking because Greenpeace and WWF have made all kinds of exaggerated predictions knowing that they exaggerated (in other words, lying). Lomborg has made a career listing them all. The pro-life versus pro-choice comparison isn't critical thinking. The U.N. report has been ridiculous for a long time and now all the posts people made on how scared they are over record temperatures has more to do with propaganda and perception than science. It has more to do with the urban island heat effect and expanding cities than the planet actually dangerously heating. We are meeting the agreements on temperature without actually meeting any emissions agreements.
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