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Old 05-31-2019, 11:14 AM   #21
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AOC and Bernie...

They're quasi-socialistic. They're not "socialists" in the classical sense, demanding that private property is abolished. Their desire for state ownership of industry is relatively minimal by comparison.

Hyper-Keynesian, perhaps, redistributionist, undoubtedly.
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Old 06-02-2019, 04:05 PM   #22
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That’s a rather strict interpretation of socialism.
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Old 06-02-2019, 05:40 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7 View Post
That’s a rather strict interpretation of socialism.
Why settle on a loose one?

Terms are coined to be as precise as possible.
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Old 06-02-2019, 05:48 PM   #24
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Why not do the same with "democracy"

There's plenty of "democratic" elections in history that are rigged and illegitimate. East Germany was called the "German Democratic Republic."

Likewise, the Nazi Party advocated for a "socialism" that fell short of a more orthodox definition.
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Old 06-02-2019, 06:35 PM   #25
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Milton Friedman was a government monopoly road socialist next to 2/3 of "socialist" Sweden, which ranks higher on the Economic Freedom Index than the United States.
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Old 06-02-2019, 06:35 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macfistowannabe View Post
Why settle on a loose one?

Terms are coined to be as precise as possible.


No they’re not. Terms are coined for various different reasons, scopes, and goals.

Why settle on a loose one? It’s not “settling.” You’re misinforming people. All Toyotas are cars but not all cars are Toyotas.

Socialism generally criticizes the notion of private property. Generally. There’s no classical sense of *abolishing* private property. For that statement you have to be more specific and use a different term.
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Old 06-02-2019, 07:03 PM   #27
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I'd day this is well within the pre-nuanced definition.

Quote:
1:*any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

2a:*a system of society or group living in which there is no private property

b:*a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state

3:*a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between*capitalism*and*communism*and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism
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Old 06-02-2019, 07:07 PM   #28
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Yeah whatever not worth it.
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Old 06-04-2019, 08:22 AM   #29
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I'm not Joe PolySci over here but I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that using dictionary definitions to describe political and economic forms or governance probably doesn't capture the whole picture.
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Old 06-04-2019, 12:04 PM   #30
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well they did say specifically that AOC and bernie are not socialists "in the classical sense", which is true. they certainly aren't calling for the outright abolition of capitalism.
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Old 06-04-2019, 04:34 PM   #31
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It's a semantic argument, thus not the bottom line. Still important in pursuit of discussion.

I don't mind the term "social democrat," it seems accurate enough. Collective interests are the focus, and they're decided on through a democratic process. It distinguishes itself from republican individualism and the strongman culture of socialism embodied by Hugo Chavez.

"Capturing the whole picture" takes years of literature and world events to observe (at least in getting anywhere near that end in any meaningful sense).
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Old 06-04-2019, 04:41 PM   #32
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On democracy itself... all civic religion aside, is it an end, or a means to an end? Is it worth having without the right to withdraw or secede from a political territory, be it the British Empire, the United States, or the European Union? Is the average voter sufficiently educated to determine the most fit of overlords for hundreds of millions of people? Was Thomas Jefferson correct in saying it could only work meaningfully in a small town?
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