Scientology is a creepy and weird cult, says Murdoch on Twitter

[Jive Turkey]

Janet Reno didn't order Jesus's execution?

Yes, I suppose that isn't nearly as dignified

 

[PhilsFan]

Curious what you mean by this

Consider how the stories of each were told. Jesus' story was spread by word of mouth, and later by the written word. People were left to decide for themselves what they believed based on how much they trusted a certain orator or writer.

Koresh was on television. You could see his compound on CNN, you could hear his voice over the airwaves. Reporters stood outside Branch Davidian and described the scene as it was unfolding right before our eyes.

If there was television in Jesus' time, no one would have believed it. I can't imagine the homes he inhabitated or the temples he preached in were any less humble than those of Koresh.

 

[Jive Turkey]

I suppose there's substance to that, but are you then saying the media has taken away the ability to spread a new religion in any meaningful capacity or will it still spread despite it? And I mean, Koresh had a small core of followers in the same way Jesus did, despite what the media was saying about him at the time; It wouldn't be unthinkable that there would be others out there willing to believe his message too. Especially when you take into account the possible cover up about the whole incident that ended everything. That in itself could generate sympathy and an openness to his 'teachings'. It's not like Jesus was Mr Popular either and it only took a little over 3 centuries for the government who executed him to buy into his religion

 

[PhilsFan]

I'm saying that stories about his importance and greatness will be much more limited because everyone has access to the media coverage of him. It's preserved, unable to altered by hand-me -down storytelling.

 

[Jive Turkey]

They're still second hand accounts though. There's enough distrust in the media to, at least for some people, render those accounts irrelevant. I get what you're saying though and it adds an interesting wrinkle to the whole process

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Honest question for the religious folk: from a purely objective viewpoint, what is the difference between Jesus and a guy like David Koresh?

Jesus had a good message and attitude towards mankind.

 

[Jive Turkey]

What was Koresh's message?

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Koresh, from what I've understood about him, seemed to talk more about prophecy and was more obsessed with gaining power than actively helping people with whatever messages he claimed to be getting.

His message seemed to focus on helping himself. Jesus was more interested in helping others.

 

[Danny Boy]

What was Koresh's message?

"I need all my riches to pay for my bitches."

 

[cobl04]

Funny, that's mine as well.

 

[Jive Turkey]

Cobbler has to pay for his bitches

 

[ryancoke71]

Cobbler has to pay for his bitches

*goes back to lurking*

 

[LemonMelon]

Cobbler has to pay for his bitches

Not once he gets that Outkast kult started up

 

[nathan1977]

Jesus was never accused of (repeated) statutory rape and murder.

 

[Jive Turkey]

Jesus had a longer beard and wore sandals

Let's forget I said Jesus in particular. And Koresh in particular. Because those details are beside my point

 

[Jive Turkey]

Dp


Dvda

 

[INDY500]

We don't mark the year of the calendar by Before Koresh or After Waco.

 

[maycocksean]

Jesus had a longer beard and wore sandals

Let's forget I said Jesus in particular. And Koresh in particular. Because those details are beside my point

Your point being. . .all religions appear to be started by nutcases at the beginning? (Just my guess. . .)

 

[maycocksean]

Or all religions are started by nutcases?

 

[Irvine511]

how would Jesus and his band of 12 have held up under today's media?

serious question.

 

[PhilsFan]

That was sort of my point.

 

[BoMac]

I don't know, but I'm guessing a reality TV series 'Rebel from Nazareth' on TLC probably would have happened.

 

[Jive Turkey]

That rebel from Waco

 

[Jive Turkey]

Your point being. . .all religions appear to be started by nutcases at the beginning? (Just my guess. . .)

No. I'll post when I'm not on my phone

 

[Jive Turkey]

I'm just saying it isn't difficult to see the parallels and how there is a bit of a frame work there waiting to be romanticized. Religions don't come from out of the blue. They all need their beginnings somewhere. The reality is that nobody really knows anything about Jesus. Was he a liar? Maybe. Was he delusional? Maybe. We only have the 2nd hand accounts of his followers (or accounts written decades after the fact), arbitrary omissions, and countless rewrites. But that goes for any religious figure. I'm just fascinated by their beginnings and am intrigued by the idea that something happening today could be the basis for a future mass spread religion. Nothing more. I'm not directly comparing Koresh's personality or teachings to Jesus'

 

[PhilsFan]

We only have 16th hand accounts.

 

[Jive Turkey]

how would Jesus and his band of 12 have held up under today's media?

serious question.

When you consider who would've been running the media back then, I don't think they would've held up so great. But I don't think that says anything about what they were actually all about. Roman smear campaigns, yo

 

[nathan1977]

Jesus didn't hold up according to the prevailing media of the day either. He was a friend of prostitutes, heretics, the poor, and the outcasts. His followers were a motley ragtag group of fishermen and tax collectors. He was accused of blasphemy against Jewish moral codes and treason against the Roman Empire, and died the humiliating and embarrassing death of a commoner, surrounded by thieves and other petty criminals.

 

[PhilsFan]

And then 16th hand accounts in books told of miracles.

 

[Jive Turkey]

We don't mark the year of the calendar by Before Koresh or After Waco.

Might want to brush up on your terminology This analogy is a little off (By 33 years or so)