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#41 | |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
Posts: 20,669
Local Time: 12:56 AM
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Quote:
That being said, Irvine's right, though, both sides moan about their coverage a lot-well, if both sides weren't acting like idiots, guess what? That'd stop. I'm personally on the side of the guy at the very start of this thread. May he, and any other Palestinians and Israelis who advocate peace and non-violence, FINALLY one day get their way. Theirs are the voices who really get drowned out in all this insanity. Angela |
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#42 |
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,246
Local Time: 01:56 AM
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i want to quickly say that we are lucky to have people who are actually living in this area of the world posting in this thread.
__________________i look forward to more posts from them and hearing their perspectives and opinions on these extraordinarily complex issues. |
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#43 |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
Posts: 20,669
Local Time: 12:56 AM
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I'll second that. Can't beat hearing it straight from the source, after all.
I also hope everyone living there stays safe. Take care, you guys ![]() Angela |
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#44 |
Refugee
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,943
Local Time: 05:56 AM
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Its her opinion and it is welcomed here, especially given the large amounts of anti-Israeli opinions that are so often expressed in here.
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#45 |
Refugee
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,943
Local Time: 05:56 AM
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HOT PRESS Year end issue 2001! BONO expressed full support for the Bush administrations handling of Afghanistan at that point.
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#46 |
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Hamilton (No longer STD capital of NZ)
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this kind of attitude, especially when it's allowed to permeate the leaders of the united states is why israel are allowed to get away with actual murder.
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#47 | |
Refugee
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,943
Local Time: 05:56 AM
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#48 | |
Refugee
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,943
Local Time: 05:56 AM
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Quote:
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#49 |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 11:56 PM
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Considering that at least 3 this-time-we-really-mean-it Obama set nuclear deadlines have come and gone with no action but a middle finger from Iran and yawns from China & Russia -- and given the recent Iran-Brazil-Turkey deal done without the knowledge of the White House... I think the president is consigned to a nuclear Iran.
Israel, I'm afraid, is on its own. ![]() |
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#50 | |
Refugee
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,943
Local Time: 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Since the 1973 War, while fighting has continued, there has not been any serious attempts to overrun Israel and US aid has played a major role in helping to deter and prevent such an event which would lead to far worse loss of life than anything seen in Israel/Palestine over the past couple of decades. |
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#51 | |
Refugee
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,943
Local Time: 05:56 AM
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Quote:
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#52 | |
Refugee
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,943
Local Time: 05:56 AM
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Quote:
I generally agree with much of what Achtung-Bono has to say on the issue. Israel has a right to defend its self and yes defending ones country often involves the search for and interdiction of smuggled weapons. |
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#53 |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 06:56 AM
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I am on the record here of not being a fan of Israeli policies, but when I look at the people who are against the state of Israel (mainly, in my opinion, left wing types, some of questionable views. I am thinking largely of the European left here, a point raised by Irivine in the past, and I think he was onto something) I start to wonder what's going on here. The media portrayal of this incident is a bit suspect. Israel may well be in the wrong, but I resent being told by the European media that I must declare this an outrage because the media have decreed thusly. I have a hard time believing the Israeli military just went on aid relief boats and started killing civilians just for the hell of it.
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#54 | |
The Fly
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Israel
Posts: 112
Local Time: 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Too many people here automatically support our government in this kind of cases. Now, I don’t think that this particular boat came in peace. They were equipped and ready for a violent resistance. They refused to pass out letters to Gilad Shalit, the Israeli soldier in their captivity (Hamas won’t allow visits from the Red Cross). Many times aid shipments were used to smuggle missiles & rockets fired later towards towns inside Israel. Not to mention the forgotten role of Egypt in the siege on Gaza – they are now in control of the border between Sinai and the Gaza strip. Nevertheless, my government chose what seems to be the worst way to act on this. If they wanted to stop the ship, there were other ways. It didn’t have to be this brutal. My anger yesterday wasn’t just because what happened with the flotilla; it was related to everything that’s happening here since I was born and before. Yes, the Palestinians are not innocent. But neither are we. We deserve each other. |
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#55 |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: London/Sydney
Posts: 6,609
Local Time: 06:56 AM
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And, similar to the boxing in of pro/anti Iraq arguments back in the day (or still today sometimes), trying to polarise classification of opinions into either black or white when most would exist in grey, is wrong and goes nowhere. Anti-Iraq was not pro-Saddam. Anti Israeli action is not anti-Israel, or pro-Hamas, or pro or anti anything else except pro-middle ground, pro-solution, or whatever.
It’s perfectly possible, and reasonable, to agree with Israel’s right to exist and right to defend itself – and to recognise how difficult and complex the challenges involved with that actually are - while also believing that they are going about it the wrong way. So in regards to the blockade, yes, I think it is perfectly reasonable and totally understandable for Israel to want to control what is being transported into Gaza, by land or sea. But it is totally unreasonable for Israel to use this as an excuse to hold a boot on the throat of the Palestinian people in Gaza (a people that Netanyahu does not believe actually exist, in a land he believes is not actually theirs.) Israel could easily – easily – have gone about this a different way. First of all, a pre-dawn commando raid so far beyond the actual blockade line, well into international waters, is a mistake of stupefying proportions. Either they truly do not give a fuck, or they’ve lost control of reasonable judgement. But from the beginning this was handled poorly. There was an aggressive (and so challenge setting) message from before the flotilla even set float. Image was everything, compromise necessary, and Egypt, Turkey and the US held the solution. I don’t understand how Israel could have fucked this up so brilliantly. The right way seems fairly simple to me? Some suggest that Israel under the current leadership has lost all sense of perspective and proportion. That it’s totally ‘us’ versus ‘them’ (everyone else) and that everything must be a message of strength and force against ‘them’, and so, while obviously not wanting the result they got, the show of force was perhaps the only option on the table from the beginning. Forgetting the rights and wrongs of it for a moment, beyond that, just in terms of pure strategy, I can’t understand where they see any kind of future with that kind of thinking. They might as well just jump to what most of us would consider the worst-case-scenario end game right now and get it out of the way. |
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#56 |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: London/Sydney
Posts: 6,609
Local Time: 06:56 AM
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- double -
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#57 | |
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,246
Local Time: 01:56 AM
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Quote:
woah, woah, woah. careful. you're actually thinking here. some people find that very confusing, this whole "on one hand we see this and on the other hand we see that" namby-pamby, limp-wristed liberal "thinking" where countries aren't all good nor all bad. |
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#58 | |
Refugee
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Maine
Posts: 2,100
Local Time: 01:56 AM
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IDF: Hamas stops flotilla aid delivered by Israel - CNN.com
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#59 |
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
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Local Time: 11:56 PM
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Andrew McCarthy, author of "The Grand Jihad" is making the rounds on conservative talk radio today. He's claiming that Islam extermist and "the American left" are in cahoots and want the same thing for America.
What's happening yesterday and today is exactly what Obama and the left wanted. And shock and awe the idiots like Rush and Laura Ingram are eating it up, hook, line, and sinker... |
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#60 |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
Posts: 20,669
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Uh...yeah. Or not
__________________![]() Earnie Shavers, excellent post ![]() Angela |
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