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Old 05-04-2011, 09:16 PM   #521
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I understand the hatred people have for Bin Laden, but what I wish we could prevent is an endless cycle of destruction. There has been times in European history where people have been fighting for 1000 years. Don't even get strated on the Middle East.
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:19 PM   #522
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The exposure of the event and its speculation speak for themselves.

Endless questioning is not the proper way to discuss a topic, BVS.
I think the fact that you can't answer at least one of the questions speaks for itself.

Sometimes getting someone to question their stance(or at least try and clarify it) IS the way to discuss topics.
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Old 05-04-2011, 10:26 PM   #523
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I believe about 80% of what I hear.


I believe 79%
Why are you so naive?
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Old 05-04-2011, 10:59 PM   #524
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i am too. But thats not to say I accept everything they say at face value. Or anyone for that matter.

I believe about 80% of what I hear.
BeLIEve


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The quasi-known whereabouts about him over the last 10 years, the amount of information that was known by officials of the secret intelligence, the compound's closeness to Pakistani military and the like are the glitches that do not follow logic into what actually happened. These claims could be answered by the government, why don't they do it to clear it up? Why are they apprehensive in releasing factual proof of information, like showing the body's pictures, for example?

I am not deeply into the conspiracy theories regarding all of the events, I am not even American in the first place. It is just something worth discussing to let the public know that there are always two sides to every story.
I'm still not entirely clear on exactly what facts are at issue for you, but I think I've at least figured out at least one aspect?
When it comes to his semi-known-yet-unknown location, and the Pakistan factor I think them not elaborating on this is a purely diplomatic move. What has become obvious is that there are serious internal issues and divides in Pakistan. If Obama et al start to go into details about this, it could lead to a serious diplomatic incident. It has already been implied that Pakistani intelligence and/or military may have been complacent, and indeed been aware of his presence. I'm sure behind the scenes this issue is being pursued. It's not the kind of conversation you have on tv.
But the fact he was hiding in plain sight? That's often a good strategy. Does it feel ludicrous that it took 10 years to find someone living in a gigantic mansion? Yes. But not implausible by any stretch of the imagination.
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:15 PM   #525
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I believe 79%
Why are you so naive?
I give police and government officals the benefit of the doubt but know they lie.

Some trust is required in life. Going around mistrusting everyone and being negative makes for a shitty world.

You actually also have little to gain from being mistrusting.
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:24 PM   #526
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My neighbour said his uncle saw Bin Laden working at a gas station in Kalamazoo, Michigan. I'm not saying it's a for sure thing, I'm just saying
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:34 PM   #527
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Maybe it was Cat Stevens
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:47 PM   #528
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it's a rare thread that makes me feel like a conservative, or at least a conservative in the context of the discussion.

but this is one of them.
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Old 05-05-2011, 12:19 AM   #529
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Old 05-05-2011, 12:22 AM   #530
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it's a rare thread that makes me feel like a conservative, or at least a conservative in the context of the discussion.

but this is one of them.
How so?
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Old 05-05-2011, 02:01 AM   #531
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oh wow.
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Old 05-05-2011, 04:13 AM   #532
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People need to use their brain.

To suggest there isn't proof is to suggest a cover-up or fabrication.

So Obama, Republicans, US Military, Pakistan, Bin Laden's wife...they're all in on it?

I get it, I really do. I want to see the photos myself. Maybe just out of curiosity. But we can't always accommodate paranoid people.
My brain requires proof before I swallow shit.

I'm not saying anyone is in on it. I just require proof. It's by no means unreasonable

Some people require a body for closure.
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Old 05-05-2011, 04:38 AM   #533
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I get it now - THAT's why Princess Beatrice wore that hat to the wedding! She was using it as an antenna to relay messages to the war room at the White House.......
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Old 05-05-2011, 04:40 AM   #534
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no thanks!

i'm glad they're not releasing any photos... that would be so distasteful for one thing, not to mention inflammatory!
Me too....

I know that people jumped from the WTC on 9/11 - I don't need to see their crushed mutiliated bodies to prove it.
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Old 05-05-2011, 04:49 AM   #535
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Me too....

I know that people jumped from the WTC on 9/11 - I don't need to see their crushed mutiliated bodies to prove it.
On this rare occasion I agree with you, mate
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Old 05-05-2011, 04:51 AM   #536
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On this rare occasion I agree with you, mate
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Old 05-05-2011, 04:57 AM   #537
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I still think that it's not so much the fear of the photo itself offending, but the fear of how the photo would be used by others to offend.

Think about one scenario - say the White House, or some leak, had a death photo already out there by the time crowds gathered on Sunday night. You take those images of all those kids chanting "USA!" and waving flags and whatever, but then add the image of a few them waving around a death photo. Suddenly those scenes turn from being able to be passed off as spontaneous jubilation over a whole lot of shit being seen as coming to a symbolic end, and are now dangerously close to being identical to the kind of death-celebratory stuff we all claim to hate when we see it coming out of the Middle East or wherever. Ugly. And you know that if it were available, people would have turned up with the photo and waved it around.

And again, the photo that the White House releases will be the most viewed on that day. But over the weeks and months and years afterwards? It's going to become a meme, and a really, really, really ugly one. And there's no shortage of idiots. I don't think the White House is so scared of a photo of a dead bin Laden being, on it's own, 'offensive' to Muslims. But I bet they're rightly shit-scared of the torrent of nastiness that will follow. And a lot of it would be deeply, directly, deliberately offensive to Muslims in general. You can bet on that.

This is not the same as the photos of Saddam and his sons, or any other historical photos of dead bad guys. It's not something that's just going to occur over a 24hr news cycle. Ok, I've seen it, we've all seen it, move on. It's going to keep echoing, and it's only ever going to be really, really, really ugly.
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Old 05-05-2011, 05:04 AM   #538
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What will releasing the photo achieve anyway? Every rational person knows he's dead, seems to me releasing it would only be to appease conspiratorial idiots.

Believing 11/9 was an inside job is just beyond stupid. Some people have researched the Illuminati too much.
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Old 05-05-2011, 05:09 AM   #539
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I am sure 'the story' will never 110% truthfully be known, but the key point: he's dead - it's crazy to dispute that.
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Old 05-05-2011, 06:28 AM   #540
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by the way, looks like that MLK quote that has been going around is partly fake:

After bin Laden’s Death, (Mostly) Fake MLK Quote Goes Viral - TIME NewsFeed

Quote:
While the latter part of the quotation is all King (from his book Strength to Love) the first part was actually from a woman called Jessica Dovey, who expressed her feelings and then followed it with the MLK quote in a Facebook status.
not sayin', just sayin'
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