Disciplining Your Child

[yolland]

I read the story in the Birmingham paper about that; the whole family sounded like a real piece of work. The father, biological mother, and stepmother all had histories (domestic violence, child neglect, and mental illness/alcoholism, respectively) and probably none of them should've had custody of a child. Then again, Grandma was the one out in the yard making the girl run for hours, yet apparently she was also the only adult with a clean record (of course, chances are Dad was an abusive person partly because of things Grandma did to him and/or allowed to be done to him way back when). There are two younger half-siblings, too (the stepmother gave birth again just a few days after this incident); you can only hope they don't wind up in custody of any of these people. It's so disturbing to watch kids being jerked through life on a choke-chain in the wake of adults who can't hold their own lives together, never mind a child's.

Not clear to me whether any of these neighbors who called police did so before the stepmother called 911 or not.

[Pearl]

While riding the train home today, two young mothers started smacking their young kids for acting up. The kids were about 4 or 5 years old, and their mothers were spanking or swatting their arms, making their kids wail. Many on the train, including me, looked up and felt terrible for the kids, but kept to ourselves.

However, this one young woman who was standing over where I was sitting was visibly upset. Once one of the mothers started complaining out loud about everyone looking at her, this woman took it upon herself to tell her how wrong she was to hit her kid. She kept going, saying those kids are going to grow up delinquents and be a problem in society, and they would hate their mothers for hitting them in public like that. Those mothers just rolled their eyes and told her to shut up and mind her business. Once the argument ended, the two mothers boasted about how they were hit growing up and turned out fine.

As the other train riders got off the train, some told that young woman that she shouldn't have intervened like that and should shut up next time. She didn't seem to understand.

I feel mixed about this. On one hand, it is very distressing to parents hit their kids in public and it's terrible that they see nothing wrong with it. But yet - and maybe I'm being a jaded New Yorker here - it is best not to say anything because those parents could care less that you are bothered. You also have no idea with what you are dealing with. Those parents could attack you if they felt like it, you'd never know. Plus, that arguing only made the situation more tense.

But yet, it is very sad that people get more bothered that someone tries to talk sense into an abusive parent, than the parent abusing their kid. I wonder if we really should mind our own business in that case and not get involved. But then again, these parents could turn on you and cause more problems.

Honestly, what should be done? I could never argue with someone like that and part of me thinks that girl was very brave, but also very stupid. Like her heart was in the right place, but her head was not. And one person cannot knock sense into someone right away like that. Sad but true.

[nathan1977]

If you are going to discipline your child in public in such a controversial way, you deserve to have someone call you out. That behavior was inappropriate in any context. I have three children who are all well-behaved, but occasionally they act out in public. When they do, I draw them very close, make eye contact, and assure them in a low voice that there will be a discipline waiting for them when they get home. I do not publicly shame, nor humiliate or berate my children in public. That sort of thing is completely out of line.

I feel bad for the family. Regardless of the behavior of the children, those are clearly parents who don't know what they're doing.

[trojanchick99]

I think more people should speak out. If they are treating their children like this in public, I fear for what they are doing in private.

[BVS]

Originally Posted by Pearl

Once the argument ended, the two mothers boasted about how they were hit growing up and turned out fine.

Yes obviously, you're right debate won.

I'm always baffled by this argument, yet I hear it all the time.

[Dfit00]

The solution for this whole problem is to be completely childless.

Save yourself the anger, embarrassment, tolerance and cash by not having kids and focus on other more worthwhile things instead.

[IWasBored]

Originally Posted by Dfit00

The solution for this whole problem is to be completely childless.

Save yourself the anger, embarrassment, tolerance and cash by not having kids and focus on other more worthwhile things instead.

7 billion people on the planet, it's not like we need to make more.

[Pearl]

Originally Posted by BVS

I'm always baffled by this argument, yet I hear it all the time.

Me too, and maybe I'm being a jaded New Yorker by thinking it's best to not get involved. On one hand, I wonder why people don't do more to stop things like this. But at the same time, I also know we should be careful because who knows what those parents will do to you. If they're willing to hit their kids in public, they're willing to do some shit to you if you try to stop them.

[hiphop]

Pearl said its better not to intervene. The child could be seriously injured or even killed at home with abusive parents, but for Pearl we should be careful because who knows how violent the parents are.

A society that allows its children to be beaten is ill. It is criminal to injure a child. And you think its cool to look away and not get involved. Let´s deny responsibility.

I am sick of this kind of parents.

When I see parents hitting their children - and I mean hurting them, not a little slap on the back - I simply call the police. There are so many examples of abused children that end up in hospital injured or die.

Then you read about it in the newspapers, you see it on TV, you shake your head and wonder, how could they possibly do that? Didn´t the neighbors see anything?

They probably saw something, but it was not their business and they decided to be careful. They denied responsibility. The problem is, now it is too late.

When you see abusive or violent parents, you have to call the police.

[hiphop]

On a more personal note, the son of my girlfriend, 8 years old, recently told me in the tram I can "suck his dick". I replied "your behavior is very impertinent today". He grinned and said "yes I know". (of course he could only afford that because mama did not hear it).

My reaction was to shout at him "stop annoying me, I have enough of being teased by you". I shouted loud, and (miracle!) it worked. It impressed him because normally men do not shout at him.

But when I am not loud, when I just say "stop that", he doesn´t. He probably thinks its not serious and he can continue. As soon as I got loud and had a warning tone in my voice, he took it serious.

Children need borders, but they do not need physical abuse to be educated.

[Pearl]

Those mothers were not ruthlessly beating their kids. They were spanking and smacking their arms. No where did I say they were thrashing their kids, and those kids were not at risk for being sent to the hospital.

And your aggressive, accusing tone in your post was unnecessary. That never helps in a discussion.

If anyone wants to intervene like that woman did, go ahead. But it won't get you anywhere. Saying something won't make a light bulb go off in their head because hitting their kids is so ingrained in them. You're a total stranger; they'll just ignore you. Might as well film them with your phones and turn the footage over to police, if that will help.

[jeevey]

I think the good think about speaking up is that it gives the child a message that it's not okay to be hit by somebody you love. Kids have to put up with that shit but they don't have to believe that everybody thinks it's okay. It's true that a little speak-up is not going to change a spanker's mind, but it is going to change the social tone. It's like one dude telling another that catcalling is not okay- it lessens the social permission that the slapper or catcaller feels for their actions.

[anitram]

Originally Posted by jeevey

I think the good think about speaking up is that it gives the child a message that it's not okay to be hit by somebody you love.

[Pearl]

Originally Posted by jeevey

I think the good think about speaking up is that it gives the child a message that it's not okay to be hit by somebody you love. Kids have to put up with that shit but they don't have to believe that everybody thinks it's okay. It's true that a little speak-up is not going to change a spanker's mind, but it is going to change the social tone. It's like one dude telling another that catcalling is not okay- it lessens the social permission that the slapper or catcaller feels for their actions.

I'm with you on that, and I think it is great that someone showed those kids that being hit is not necessary at all. Hopefully, those kids will always remember that woman.

Personally, I'm not the type to speak up in a crowded train like that; that's just not my personality. The most I will do is use my iPhone to film what is going on and show it to the police. That is, if I can do it discreetly without an abusive parent noticing and getting into my face about it, and God knows what else.

[jeevey]

It's also worth noting that most people who discipline their kids inappropriately don't do it because they are crazies or love to hurt their kids. They do it because they're overwhelmed, frustrated, maybe embarrassed by what they see as their kids' bad behavior, and don't know what else to do. Most people are pretty sensitive to social shaming as a barometer of their behavior.

And honestly I think that if an older woman or a man had said the same thing to this mother, she would have given a less combative, more conciliating response. She probably only felt comfortable blowing off the speaker-up because she was younger, female, and didn't likely have kids- she didn't have enough social status to make this woman embarrassed. It's unfortunate but true that we can only be embarrassed by people we respect. Cheers to that young woman, though. That's a good thing to do.

[Pearl]

Originally Posted by jeevey

And honestly I think that if an older woman or a man had said the same thing to this mother, she would have given a less combative, more conciliating response. She probably only felt comfortable blowing off the speaker-up because she was younger, female, and didn't likely have kids- she didn't have enough social status to make this woman embarrassed. It's unfortunate but true that we can only be embarrassed by people we respect. Cheers to that young woman, though. That's a good thing to do.

Actually, the mothers were about the same age as the other woman who confronted them. She was about 25 or 27 years old, and those mothers could not have been any older.

[Jive Turkey]

Originally Posted by jeevey

I think the good think about speaking up is that it gives the child a message that it's not okay to be hit by somebody you love. Kids have to put up with that shit but they don't have to believe that everybody thinks it's okay. It's true that a little speak-up is not going to change a spanker's mind, but it is going to change the social tone. It's like one dude telling another that catcalling is not okay- it lessens the social permission that the slapper or catcaller feels for their actions.

Originally Posted by jeevey

It's also worth noting that most people who discipline their kids inappropriately don't do it because they are crazies or love to hurt their kids. They do it because they're overwhelmed, frustrated, maybe embarrassed by what they see as their kids' bad behavior, and don't know what else to do. Most people are pretty sensitive to social shaming as a barometer of their behavior.

And honestly I think that if an older woman or a man had said the same thing to this mother, she would have given a less combative, more conciliating response. She probably only felt comfortable blowing off the speaker-up because she was younger, female, and didn't likely have kids- she didn't have enough social status to make this woman embarrassed. It's unfortunate but true that we can only be embarrassed by people we respect. Cheers to that young woman, though. That's a good thing to do.

Lets bring the man hate into every thread

[Jive Turkey]

Originally Posted by Pearl

Those mothers were not ruthlessly beating their kids. They were spanking and smacking their arms. No where did I say they were thrashing their kids, and those kids were not at risk for being sent to the hospital.

And your aggressive, accusing tone in your post was unnecessary. That never helps in a discussion.

If anyone wants to intervene like that woman did, go ahead. But it won't get you anywhere. Saying something won't make a light bulb go off in their head because hitting their kids is so ingrained in them. You're a total stranger; they'll just ignore you. Might as well film them with your phones and turn the footage over to police, if that will help.

Especially coming from someone who gets 'teased' by an 8 year old

[bono_212]

Originally Posted by Pearl

She kept going, saying those kids are going to grow up delinquents and be a problem in society, and they would hate their mothers for hitting them in public like that.

Your issue with her speaking out was that you thought it was dangerous to do so on a public New York train.

My issue is that she told these women in public that her children are going to grow up to be delinquents. IMO, totally out of line.

I grew up in a home that used spanking as a punishment. I'm not out abusing people, starting trash can fires, robbing banks or anything like that.

From what you said, they were swatting them, yes? It sounds like they were going overboard with it, but, I mean...I'm speaking from my own upbringing here, obviously.

Originally Posted by jeevey

It's also worth noting that most people who discipline their kids inappropriately don't do it because they are crazies or love to hurt their kids. They do it because they're overwhelmed, frustrated, maybe embarrassed by what they see as their kids' bad behavior, and don't know what else to do.

Or, it's how they were raised as well?

[jeevey]

Yeah, that's usually why people don't know what else to do- they didn't learn the other coping skills.

And honestly Jive, get over it already. My comment was not man hating. My comment is noting the fact that men often have an easier time getting listened to by strangers, which they are able to use for good.