Perhaps it's time for Rick Rubin

[Reggie Thee Dog]

Zooropa is only a concept in hindsight...it was a collection of songs that are cohesive in totality and allow the listener to interpret as a whole. Hence giving the appearance of a concept, when in actuallity it was just where U2 was at the time musically.

Everyone wants to bash ATYCLB, but that album works because U2 worked in the moment, and not with a concept...Pop, in my opinion, is a mess because U2 was trying too hard to mesh with what was popular at the time (dance/trance, trip-hop). Pop has some fantastic songs, and then it trips all over itself, sometimes in the same song (Miami anyone).

U2 need to write what they feel, and not what is in style or popular. There is nothing wrong with incoporating newer styles as long as they don't overtake the music or the emotion.

 

[LemonMelon]

And I say that as, in general, a big Rubin fan. I think he's the exact opposite of what they need.

Yes. And this is because...

And the much maligned Saints isn't even a U2 song. It means absolutely nothing for a U2/Rubin record.

He would let shit like The Saints Are Coming be released.

Rubin's style is to let the artist write the songs first and then strip them back. He doesn't adorn things; he tears them down. In a sense, he doesn't write anything. But his style is easily recognizable and present in the songs because of the way they're crafted when he's around. This style is in stark contrast to what U2 has always done to create their best work: wander into an idea and run with it. If you believe that the songs will leave his studio without any sort of fingerprint, you have probably never listened to an album that he's produced. Also, if you believe that his background won't influence the final product, you're naive; he produces rock records, and a Rubin-produced album would likely place us in some of the territory I outlined before. Outside of Johnny Cash's recent work (which applies Rubin's style and appropriates it to country rock), there is no precedent for him making albums with the sort of nuance found in a Lanois, Eno, Godrich, etc. work.

Now, for the issue of the actual sound quality. His sound very much mimics that of the production we hear on Bomb today: harsh, overdriven, and lacking in dynamic range. Seriously, listen to Death Magnetic sometime. Is it a good album? To Metallica's recent standards, it's very good. But that sound would undermine the texture that U2's classics possess, and I don't think a more blunt record is the way to go for them. We've had a decade of that, and I think, with NLOTH, U2 actually hit on something they could hang onto. I don't want them to lose that, but yeah, they do need a production change. I just believe that literally any other successful producer working in rock today makes more sense for U2 than Rubin. I mean, any. If you want them to be able to breathe, I advocate self-production.

 

[juliaguliaxo94]

what think you?

You know what? I would love for this to happen. You got me really excited and curious. I wouldn't know how it would turn out, but it would be interesting to see happen.

 

[Chill Mike D]

Eno also wanted to erase Streets, have MOS as the lead single and was the instigator behind Passengers.

These, to me, were all great ideas. I think the album recording of Streets is pretty pedestrian. They probably should have started their recording from scratch and tried it again. MOS would have been a great lead single, and Passengers is one of the most inspired and creative things they've ever done. I can't say that Eno has ever been a bad influence on the band.

 

[LemonMelon]

Seriously, Passengers kicks ass.

Maybe I just look for something different from U2 than U2girl does. And yes, this is meant to be condescending.

 

[subnet]

rubin is big and fat and hairy
eno is small and skinny and bald

 

[nirniva]

is displeased by this news.

 

[AEKU2]

Seriously, Passengers kicks ass.

Maybe I just look for something different from U2 than U2girl does. And yes, this is meant to be condescending.

Passengers is way better than anything that followed it from U2 in my opinion.

 

[Catman]

Sometimes I think people give Eno more credit than he deserves. Don't get me wrong, he's definitely played an integral role in U2's career... but if the guy had more control over what's put on record, I feel U2's catalogue would just be a bunch of Passengers-esque recordings Then again...

Passengers is way better than anything that followed it from U2 in my opinion.

Different strokes for different folks, I suppose. I think of Eno as being a positive influence in giving the band a nudge in an interesting direction... but what U2 chooses to do with the material is what pulls me in. Would "The Unforgettable Fire" be nearly as good without U2 keeping Eno in check? Lord knows we wouldn't have WTSHNN opening The Joshua Tree if left up to Eno (and I can't believe someone here actually wishes U2 would have listened to him ). As far as Passengers is concerned, I gotta be honest and say my favorite tracks are the most "commercial" ones on there ("Miss Sarajevo," "Your Blue Room" ...not sure what the hell "Elvis Ate America" is, but I never want Bono to do coke again), songs that, IMO, seem to be the result of a more balanced collaboration between the two.

Also, is it just me or is "One Step Closer" incredibly underrated? Say what you want about the commercialization of "The Bomb," but OSC is killer. Definitely inspired by U2's many years spent with Eno, and I think they pulled off an admirable job.

 

[coolian2]

sounds like a case of "i don't like what he does so he sucks"

 

[Vlad n U 2]

They're actually just called Doves, but man wouldn't that be a dream team? Of course it would take 8 years instead of 4 considering how slow both bands are, put them together and see what happens.

They're a fantastic band, but I don't know much about how they produce. But it'd be awesome anyhow.

I'd personally like a guy like Moby to produce for U2.

 

[65980]

Think they just need some new person/people to work with. Some new ideas. Going back to old farts like Eno, Lanois, and Lillywhite would be a bit sad at this point.

Producers shouldn't be important. To the extent that the producer is important, the artist sucks.

Here's an idea: how about hiring a woman to produce them?

 

[AEKU2]

Sometimes I think people give Eno more credit than he deserves. Don't get me wrong, he's definitely played an integral role in U2's career... but if the guy had more control over what's put on record, I feel U2's catalogue would just be a bunch of Passengers-esque recordings Then again...

Different strokes for different folks, I suppose. I think of Eno as being a positive influence in giving the band a nudge in an interesting direction... but what U2 chooses to do with the material is what pulls me in. Would "The Unforgettable Fire" be nearly as good without U2 keeping Eno in check? Lord knows we wouldn't have WTSHNN opening The Joshua Tree if left up to Eno (and I can't believe someone here actually wishes U2 would have listened to him ). As far as Passengers is concerned, I gotta be honest and say my favorite tracks are the most "commercial" ones on there ("Miss Sarajevo," "Your Blue Room" ...not sure what the hell "Elvis Ate America" is, but I never want Bono to do coke again), songs that, IMO, seem to be the result of a more balanced collaboration between the two.

Also, is it just me or is "One Step Closer" incredibly underrated? Say what you want about the commercialization of "The Bomb," but OSC is killer. Definitely inspired by U2's many years spent with Eno, and I think they pulled off an admirable job.

I think they were at their peak with Passengers, unfortunately they should have followed up with something like the outtakes from MDH, Stateless and so forth, instead of POP, which i think was a contrived way to reignite the ZOOTV bombast (which im a great fan of) with a repeat in the form of POPMART. I think they have been playing catch up ever since, with HTDAAB being released about 2 years after it should have been (i think the alternate htdaab tracks are better), they missed the opportunity in 2007 to put out the quasi-Rubin tracks if you like - which owuld have kept U2 relevant in the eyes of the latter day Jobsian consumers of content, and bought them time with regards an NLOTH release in late 2009 or 2010.

 

[LemonMelon]

Here's an idea: how about hiring a woman to produce them?

I would photoshop Bono and Ali onto the Two Virgins cover, but I'm pretty sure that's a no-no. On account of taste.

 

[Inner El Guapo]

NLOTH merely tries to have a concept...as do all the post-Zooropa releases.
.

Because there can't be a concept when you're only picking the best of the bunch. Unless every single thing you do is in the same vein. And it won't be.

All of those albums are merely collections of songs. Although POP seems to be a little more cohesive than the others, to me at least.

 

[An Cat Gav]

Passengers is way better than anything that followed it from U2 in my opinion.

 

[Saracene]

Think they just need some new person/people to work with. Some new ideas. Going back to old farts like Eno, Lanois, and Lillywhite would be a bit sad at this point.

On the other hand, I've read an interview with PJ Harvey a few years ago, where she said that in order to try and do something really different to what she's done before, she felt she needed to work with people she knew well and felt absolutely comfortable with.

I guess it all depends on what role you want your producer to play.

 

[Aygo]

Also, is it just me or is "One Step Closer" incredibly underrated? Say what you want about the commercialization of "The Bomb," but OSC is killer. Definitely inspired by U2's many years spent with Eno, and I think they pulled off an admirable job.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

sounds like a case of "i don't like what he does so he sucks"

I really like what he has done historically – pre the last 10 years or so, see LemonMelon’s post about his awful mixing habits - and historically admittedly more in hip-hop than rock. I just don’t think what he does is really a good match for U2. They (U2) seem to work best with a creative collaborator - time to give someone other than Eno a go, but still someone like Eno, in terms of how they work with and push the band. Rubin is not a creative collaborator.

He sometimes gives artists direction, but it’s always very simplistic. If you think U2 need a whole new creative direction, new inspiration etc, Rubin is not your man. If you think U2 just need a bit of a nudge toward something obvious, and a bit of a kick up the arse, perhaps he is your man. But I don’t think that’s where U2 are at. There’s nothing really too obvious, that time has kind of passed. That moment for them was post-Pop, we’ve had that decade. We’ve had the Rubin moment and the Rubin decade without Rubin. What would he do with them now? He’s not going to leap all-in with them on some kind of journey – new ideas, new inspiration, new sounds. Not at all. He would only be a continuation of the 00s. in that he would likely identify some simple area or direction, and steer them towards that. Strip back the sound, melody at the forefront etc – but we’ve had that. He might convince them to strip right back, give us that album of four-guys-in-a-room that the Bomb was meant to be originally, and maybe that could work for the ‘rock’ album, but I doubt that's where U2 are at. Again, the Chris Thomas moment might have worked if it were a Rick Rubin moment, but that moment has gone. There’ll be nothing ‘new’ new from him, or if they work with him, nothing 'new' new from U2.

 

[Registered Dude]

He sometimes gives artists direction, but it’s always very simplistic. If you think U2 need a whole new creative direction, new inspiration etc, Rubin is not your man. If you think U2 just need a bit of a nudge toward something obvious, and a bit of a kick up the arse, perhaps he is your man. But I don’t think that’s where U2 are at.

I think that's exactly where they are.. they've got complete songs written this time.. we have physical proof. this is seemingly unprecedented for u2.

they're not looking for a new direction; they're looking to put together an album based on what they already have. they are trying to determine how best to move forward.

my guess is that they want to record this next album quickly, using material they've already written. and, maybe, maybe Rubin is the best man to get the job done.

I also believe that if they go in and record the already-written Songs of Ascent material, along with Mercy, North Star, etc, we'll get that cohesive sounding album..

heck, even the Rubin produced Stadium Arcadium, a triple album of countless different kinds of songs has a cohesive sound.. in that case: polished, lush and big.

 

[mrex]

I think that Rubin would help them strip down to bare bones like they've never done before. Much more than Bomb. Which, in a way, could be seen as a new direction.

I imagine the recordings to be as sparse as their cover of "Satalite of Love"

Or, as others have pointed out, Rubin could produce an album of work that sounds like "Window in the Skies"...lush, quick, tight and great.

Like someone else said a page or two back, I think "Window in the Skies" is about the best song they did in the 00s, after BD.

 

[Registered Dude]

polished, lush and big.

lush, quick, tight and great.

this Rick Rubin album is beginning to sound like porno sex

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

okay...

rick rubin doesn't = OMGz rawk record!

rick rubin doesn't = OMGz stripped down, bare, acoustic record like johnny cash and neil DB9z!

rick rubin = okay, the song is done, stop over cooking it, let it go.

if a lot of rubin's material seems like it's stripped down it's because rubin tries to not let the artists he works with, who come from an unbelievably broad spectrum of genres btw, over think everything. he's a "that's good, that's not, that could be good if you just add this, or dump that" kinda guy.

i mean the dude's produced Johnny Cash, Lil' John, Rage Against The Machine, Neil Diamond, Jay-Z, the Dixie Chicks, Slayer, Justin Timberlake, Red Hot Chili Peppers & Josh Grobin. he doesn't fit into any genre or mold. he just produces great records. and sometimes those seem like they're stripped back, bare bones because the artist in question has had a string of over-produced, over-thought, over-cooked records, which made them turn to Rubin in the first place.

Rubin has done rock albums, comedy albums, acoustic albums, rap albums, dance albums, metal albums, and everything in between albums.

 

[nirniva]

this Rick Rubin album is beginning to sound like porno sex

Also...if they're working on four albums, who's to say that they'll all have the same producer? Here are my guesses:
Songs Of Ascent: Eno/Lanois
Rock Album: Rubin
Dance Album: Someone totally new to U2...probably a well-known dance and/or hip-hop producer. Danger Mouse would be an odd, but potentially awesome, choice.
Spider-Man: If they actually do a "U2 version" of this, probably Rubin.

 

[LemonMelon]

He sometimes gives artists direction, but it’s always very simplistic. If you think U2 need a whole new creative direction, new inspiration etc, Rubin is not your man. If you think U2 just need a bit of a nudge toward something obvious, and a bit of a kick up the arse, perhaps he is your man. But I don’t think that’s where U2 are at. There’s nothing really too obvious, that time has kind of passed. That moment for them was post-Pop, we’ve had that decade. We’ve had the Rubin moment and the Rubin decade without Rubin. What would he do with them now? He’s not going to leap all-in with them on some kind of journey – new ideas, new inspiration, new sounds. Not at all. He would only be a continuation of the 00s. in that he would likely identify some simple area or direction, and steer them towards that. Strip back the sound, melody at the forefront etc – but we’ve had that. He might convince them to strip right back, give us that album of four-guys-in-a-room that the Bomb was meant to be originally, and maybe that could work for the ‘rock’ album, but I doubt that's where U2 are at. Again, the Chris Thomas moment might have worked if it were a Rick Rubin moment, but that moment has gone. There’ll be nothing ‘new’ new from him, or if they work with him, nothing 'new' new from U2.

Yeah, this is what I'm trying to say. The guy won't be pushing U2 anywhere they're not already headed. He'll fix the egregious mistakes and steer them away from ridiculous concepts, but the songs they already have will be the material available to them, and that's it. There won't be epic God-walking-through-the-room MOS moments, there won't be a lot of weird Fez-Being Born type shit. It will be five guys in a room getting to the heart of the matter, and if the songs are good (based on the new stuff I've heard, I'm not at all convinced), we should have one of the more lean and direct U2 records since the early years. If the songs are crap (Rubin produced two of Weezer's worst albums, so he's not above letting a great band produce shit), I don't see this being a good idea for U2.

Of course, the fat bastard produced Wildflowers, so he can't be all bad.

 

[U2girl]

Rick Rubin = okay, the song is done, stop over cooking it, let it go. This would be a good thing...assuming U2 would listen to a producer on that matter ? I still think a quick pop single and especially a cover/collaboration aren't enough to really know where he'd lead U2 (and there's more to the artists he's produced than "acoustics" or "rawk"). I liked his comment to the band in the studio: get back to me when you've writen some great songs. It is of course the opposite of U2's normal pushing along, waiting for inspiration...but they could try it out for a change. Along with his knack for re-freshing ageing musicians' careers.

Good point Registered Dude...it sounds like they want to hammer out something now (in time for 2011 shows) as opposed to mulling over a brand new direction. If "it's all about Spidey", that would be the rock album Bono talked about. Rubin would be good for this.

edit: self-producing... no. They need outside hands to help. It would take even longer to record, much less agree on the sound.

 

[Screwtape2]

Think they just need some new person/people to work with. Some new ideas. Going back to old farts like Eno, Lanois, and Lillywhite would be a bit sad at this point.

But what producer is out there that will stand up to the band, challenge the band and the band will respect? I am not sure there are any outside of the three you listed.

 

[Niceman]

Eno & Lanois just gave them NLOTH! I'd like more like that, so if Brian and Danny have the time, I say use them!

 

[Registered Dude]

But what producer is out there that will stand up to the band, challenge the band and the band will respect? I am not sure there are any outside of the three you listed.

Nigel Godrich? I like what he did here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMgMcc7Gh6c

AND, he stood up to Paul McCartney and told him when his songs were syrupy crap.

though we still got:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sa3D1OrZZpo

 

[LemonMelon]

Love that song, actually. It's very genuine, and obviously an homage to a time period. Rare to actually hear McCartney refer to his scenes as "very twee," but you do there.

Chaos And Creation is tremendous, as well as Beck's Sea Change and nearly everything he has done with Radiohead. I would love for U2 to have his input on their work.