Financeguy, I don't mean to sound ignorant. But, what are they protesting for or against?
Thanks in advance. We don't get every bit of news on this side of the Atlantic.
No matter what the protest is over, no matter where you fall on the political spectrum, I fully agree, any violent activity is obnoxious and not warranted. You can be as angry as you wish, but you don't have the right to endanger people around you. Any worthy complaints you may have lose any shot of being taken seriously once you cross that line.
That article from financeguy made my head hurt. I'm not even close to being a financial whiz, but I look at that article and it just floors me how so many people on so many levels could, pardon my language, fuck money-related things up THIS badly. Times like these I'm glad to be an enormously small spender.
It'll be quite interesting to see if Ireland does indeed adopt its own version of the Tea Party. I don't know whether to find it comforting or disturbing to realize that most, if not all, of the world is in the same boat right now.
Angela
the far left infiltrators in the march have perfected the art of hiding in crowds and starting civil unrest.
often those "far left infiltrators" are undercover plainclothes police who are paid to spark unrest as to give police a reason to beat up protestors. also the extreme leftists can be provoking, agreed. but one thing is clear, it has often been proved that indeed the ones who provoked the violence were paid police agents.
^ Yep, and IIRC with regard there was also evidence from Genoa a few years back.
Having said that, in Ireland, I don't think this type of infiltration is so much of a feature. Because of our history, the police are very careful and proportionate with regard to exercising force and generally don't wish to exercise it. The last time the police shot someone in Ireland, there was a massive tribunal and investigation which went on for years - similar incidents happen in the US all the time, and it's just treated as another day's work.
About the Neo-nazis, though, I am not sure if banning their marches achieves the desired result. There is the danger that it wins them more converts.
wow. i didn't really doubt it, but i was kinda hoping it wasn't true.
There was no conspiracy to bring down the government, which I think they were looking for. In the end everything was thrown back in their face, and the jury saw that. It was painful, laborious - luckily, there was a good team of lawyers, everyone had to go in every day and have their chance on the stand. Everyone was just as honest as they could be. There was nothing to hide." All 13 were acquitted. According to one witness, a superintendent approached a group of Spiral members on the steps outside the court and said: "I just want you to know that I don't agree with what is happening to you here. This is a political stitch-up."
The French techno scene has moved towards live-performance techno. "Some live sets have gone up to 22 hours of live playing," says Sebastian. "We're mostly based in France now." These events in the French countryside attract up to 50,000 people. There the Tribe members remain, continuing to promote the cause of gathering under the banner of music, outside the commercialised system of pop. "Britain is very good at presenting music in certain ways," says Sebastian. "Ever since the Beatles, we discovered it made money. But music's a much bigger thing. It can really bring people together
Nonetheless, in Britain, legislation continues to eat into our freedom to gather and party. New security regulations for live performances include a long list of prohibitive restrictions, including the need for police checks on performers. It's hard to see what motivates such control on the part of the state, except for fear. What is it about young people gathering together that provokes such a severe, sometimes brutal, response? Villages can have fetes, children can have fairs, but something about so much youth in one place scares someone. As Simone told me, "What was it that was so bad about what we were doing? We didn't leave much damage. Castlemorton is still as beautiful as it ever was."
Don't know about that case, but in general there've been numerous cases throughout Europe where plainclothes police officers were found to be instigators. But without evidence, it cannot be told here.
Here in Berlin, if it's too boring riot police sometimes start beating people up themselves. Even in times where they can be sure to be filmed. Luckily, the last incidences could be filmed and officials didn't have a choice but prosecuting the identified officers.
When it comes to demonstrations, police is less and less your friend here, and that's quite a shame.
But at least in Germany, next to the so-called 'black block', a group of extreme leftists whose main concern is a good beating, and civil police seeking to spice things up a little, there's also the movement of the so-called 'national autonomous'. These are neo-Nazis who clothe indistinguishable to leftists and also act as instigators, so that the blame falls upon the left.
In the end, when a demonstration turns violent here you cannot say who in fact started it in the end.
Most demonstrations, save for the May 1 demonstrations, are very peacefully though. But every blockade or other form of civil disobedience is being answered with growing use of force, which involves tear gas, watercannons, batons etc. On the other hand, especially in the case of Nazi demonstrations, politicians etc. tell you to do anything in your power to stop these marches and show that you do not tolerate them, but don't you think for a second that police will support you in that.
^ Yep, and IIRC with regard there was also evidence from Genoa a few years back.
Having said that, in Ireland, I don't think this type of infiltration is so much of a feature. Because of our history, the police are very careful and proportionate with regard to exercising force and generally don't wish to exercise it. The last time the police shot someone in Ireland, there was a massive tribunal and investigation which went on for years - similar incidents happen in the US all the time, and it's just treated as another day's work.
About the Neo-nazis, though, I am not sure if banning their marches achieves the desired result. There is the danger that it wins them more converts.
If they break someone's nose or more during a demonstration, it'll be denied until videos appear online. The force employed has been growing.
Demonstrating becomes more and more of a risk, even though you just want to march.
Now politicians even suggest demonstrators pay for the police action, like with the recent Castor transports of radioactive waste. And they want to send you to prison for up to five years if during a demonstration you "attack" a police officer. Attack here means, you resist being carried away. Basically, every move you do, if you touch a police officer you could be charged then.
Before I moved to Berlin and became more involved, and even got to participate, I also hoped it was more propaganda than anything. But truth is, the police has done a great job to disenchant anyone who tries to participate. But that's even more reason to go out into the streets, peacefully.
That´s very true, and exactly the same thing happens in Austria. Castor is a good example. In Vienna, when there are peaceful protests, it might just be 50 people - if state doesn´t "like" the cause, after 10 minutes a massive police force of 100 armed policemen will be there, who will surround the protestors and protestors can only leave after showing their ID, and then they´ll get an administrative penalty.
That´s the kind of democracy the EU and the politicians of its member states want. They want to actively discourage peaceful protests. They don´t want peaceful people to take part, they better stay at home. This development has been evident for say, the last five or ten years. One could safely say some European countries are on the way to become a police state, or call it a dictatorship. Oh yes, people will be allowed to vote, but every participation of civil society except of voting will be crushed.
The police is the executive force, and they´re taking their orders from the police presidents who ally with the politicians. Some people (and mass media portray it like that) think that massive police force and intimidation of peaceful protests or a little teargas are an exception reserved for violent anarchists. The ones who take part in protests realize that of course all this violence - be it verbally, administrative or force - is ordered.
The brilliant German comedian Georg Schramm said: Economic growth is religion. And economic growth needs idiots, otherwise no one will be eating scruffy meat.
That´s the main reason why politicians cut university and education budgets. Shift a civil society from being critical towards plain idiot consumers, without any resistance, that´s what their goal is.