The Evolution of U2's Creative Process

[BVS]

No misunderstanding, but thanks.

There's absolutely no mention of help in any of those quotes, so yes, misunderstanding on your part.

 

[Iggy Fizz]

Not just help - basically a complete outsourcing of a huge amount of creative work...

 

[BVS]

Not just help - basically a complete outsourcing of a huge amount of creative work...

Except neither one of those quotes speak to that at all. Can you point to what you think is an outsourcing of creative work?

 

[Gzusfrk]

https://www.billboard.com/articles/...barlow-interview-u2-producer-songs-experience

I ran across this article thanks to my Google news feed. Interesting insights here.

I will admit that while I really like a lot of SOE, the escalating reliance on producers and others bothers me. Feels like the band are essentially outsourcing most of the creative process and simply showing up to record their bits and sing lyrics they may or may not have written.

Andy's comment about the 'huge family' sounds more like 'huge corporation'.

I've said before that these guys are a very part time band nowadays but it feels like they've taken it to a new level. At what point is this not a U2 album and merely a U2 franchise effort???

Take this quote - wow:

When Bono writes he doesn't write lyrics per se. We call it Bongolese. He'll basically make up words about the view or the cup of coffee he's drinking -- just pure channeling -- and from that we would find what feels good and piece it together. The next day he would listen to the vocal shape that we came up with, write a narrative and, when he was excited by something, take it to The Edge.

Or this one - another wow:

I've got to say, it was quite unnerving. I've never done a multi-producer record before. And for 21 years I've been an artist where you get very attached to ideas and songs are like your children. So when other producers got involved and began chopping up my children, I had to swiftly learn to be less precious about my ideas. The good thing about it is that we were all pitching ideas for the band and from that they could then piece together how the whole arrangement was going to flow.

These were exactly the kinds of concerns that made me think about this topic. One Republic already tweeted to it's fans that they may "recognize" U2's Summer of Love as West Coast from the Oh My My sessions, and Tedder writing the chorus melody for EBW, which I think is a major songwriting contribution, others disagree. Yet both songs still say Music by U2. With the integrity that the band puts forth in discussing their relavance, creative process, and wanting to push themselves, this bothers me too.

 

[BVS]

These were exactly the kinds of concerns that made me think about this topic. One Republic already tweeted to it's fans that they may "recognize" U2's Summer of Love as West Coast from the Oh My My sessions, and Tedder writing the chorus melody for EBW, which I think is a major songwriting contribution, others disagree. Yet both songs still say Music by U2. With the integrity that the band puts forth in discussing their relavance, creative process, and wanting to push themselves, this bothers me too.

No, they didn’t. That was a fan account and they were just making a reference to the video and making the same assumptions as you.

 

[Iggy Fizz]

These were exactly the kinds of concerns that made me think about this topic. One Republic already tweeted to it's fans that they may "recognize" U2's Summer of Love as West Coast from the Oh My My sessions, and Tedder writing the chorus melody for EBW, which I think is a major songwriting contribution, others disagree. Yet both songs still say Music by U2. With the integrity that the band puts forth in discussing their relavance, creative process, and wanting to push themselves, this bothers me too.

you are obviously not a true fan... a true believer...

 

[Gzusfrk]

ok, this whole Summer of Love business is pretty ridiculous to me.

We have to believe that Tedder/One Rep. had a song called West Coast - and then at some point Bono/U2 heard it and they liked it so much that they said, we'd love to use it in some way.

And then Bono and the boys, instead of just using the riff, or some part of the song structure and coming up with new lyrics, said NO, we are too lazy for that and want to just use the song.
So then Bono manufactured a story about looking out on the ocean and thinking about the "other west coast" across the sea that was so different than the one he was standing on - JUST so it could fit into the song title/lyrics/chorus of the One Republic song!?!?! Then regale reporters with his phony story, just to cover up the use of the One Republic song.
And then made sure that Tedder was rewarded handsomely instead of giving any writing credits.

This is what we are to believe, and not that U2 had a riff, or rough cut of a song, gave it to Tedder for a while to work on and come up with some ideas and changes and bring it back and see if the band liked it, and then work on it some more?

Really

Whats weird though is that in the clip, Redder seems very excited about working on a One Republic song called West Coast. Montrose shared a tweet that One Republic sent to it's fans stating that they may recognize U2's Summer of Love as West Coast worked on for their album Oh My My.

 

[BVS]

Whats weird though is that in the clip, Redder seems very excited about working on a One Republic song called West Coast. Montrose shared a tweet that One Republic sent to it's fans stating that they may recognize U2's Summer of Love as West Coast worked on for their album Oh My My.

:facepalm:

 

[BVS]

You know another interesting thing about the video; when talking about the first song, he says “this is a One Republic song”. That struck me as odd, because duh you’re OR, but if he was also playing songs that you were producing for others in that same setting, then it would make sense to say that.

 

[Gzusfrk]

:facepalm:

All the fan did was put clips together which Montrose posted the separate clips, and you can facepalm all you want. If One Republic wrote big chunks of Summer of Love, you can't wish it away. It's just facts, not condemnation.

Believe what you want

 

[BVS]

All the fan did was put clips together which Montrose posted the separate clips, and you can facepalm all you want. If One Republic wrote big chunks of Summer of Love, you can't wish it away. It's just facts, not condemnation.

Believe what you want

What? I’m not wishing anything away.

I’m facepalming your grasp on the facts, you keep trying to tell people OR tweeted that and they didn’t.

It’s like years ago a beach clip appeared, and everyone assumed it was a U2 song, but it ended up they were playing back a julian casablancas song, I believe...

 

[Gzusfrk]

What? I’m not wishing anything away.

I’m facepalming your grasp on the facts, you keep trying to tell people OR tweeted that and they didn’t.

It’s like years ago a beach clip appeared, and everyone assumed it was a U2 song, but it ended up they were playing back a julian casablancas song, I believe...

Look, I didn't make up the video, or the tweet. Tedder is very prolific and writes songs for other artists as well as his own band. IMO, that's why he says it's a One Republic song. The guy is on a creative roll, whether you like him or not. He doesn't have to "claim" a U2 idea as his own and make a video clip of it

 

[BVS]

Look, I didn't make up the video, or the tweet. Tedder is very prolific and writes songs for other artists as well as his own band. IMO, that's why he says it's a One Republic song. The guy is on a creative roll, whether you like him or not. He doesn't have to "claim" a U2 idea as his own and make a video clip of it

You’re not making any sense.

He’s not claiming a U2 idea as his own.

I feel like I’m either drunk or there are some people having some reading issues in here, and it’s quite possible I’m drunk [emoji43]

 

[BVS]

Take this quote - wow:



When Bono writes he doesn't write lyrics per se. We call it Bongolese. He'll basically make up words about the view or the cup of coffee he's drinking -- just pure channeling -- and from that we would find what feels good and piece it together. The next day he would listen to the vocal shape that we came up with, write a narrative and, when he was excited by something, take it to The Edge.

This is how Bono’s done it for decades. They’ll be a take that finally has a fleshed out bridge, another one where he’ll say I like that chorus, and possibly another has the better verse idea, and then they’ll piece it together so Bono can spend some time alone with it and write lyrics. The only thing different is the ease to cut and paste compared to the UF days.

Or this one - another wow:



I've got to say, it was quite unnerving. I've never done a multi-producer record before. And for 21 years I've been an artist where you get very attached to ideas and songs are like your children. So when other producers got involved and began chopping up my children, I had to swiftly learn to be less precious about my ideas. The good thing about it is that we were all pitching ideas for the band and from that they could then piece together how the whole arrangement was going to flow.

Even Eno and Lanois would do this with certain songs that maybe they didn’t see eye to eye, they’d create their idea of a mix and then play it back for the band the next day.

You really couldn’t have chosen 2 more business as usual quotes.

 

[Montrose]

https://www.billboard.com/articles/...barlow-interview-u2-producer-songs-experience

I ran across this article thanks to my Google news feed. Interesting insights here.

I will admit that while I really like a lot of SOE, the escalating reliance on producers and others bothers me. Feels like the band are essentially outsourcing most of the creative process and simply showing up to record their bits and sing lyrics they may or may not have written.

How do you see it as either 'escalating' or 'reliance'? I don't see any indication that there's any more of anything on SOE than there's been on previous albums. I think Bono or Edge even addressed this once in an interview, counting up the number of producers and saying, actually, it's pretty par for the course.

The only thing I see as a slight nudge forward in the last two albums in the more overt mention of other contributing artists - Lykke Li, Lada Gaga, HAIM, Kendrick, etc. But that's just U2 playing the modern game of playing tag with other artists to get some cross-promotion going. We can't blame them for not being in step with modern stuff at the same time as criticizing them for adopting some modern practices.

Andy's comment about the 'huge family' sounds more like 'huge corporation'.

You know that U2 is a huge organization outside the band, right? Like, they need people to market and sell product, merchandise, run the web site, sell tickets, organize tours, produce the shows, build the sets, pay the staff, and so on...?

And I see what you're doing - you're cherry-picking parts of a quote to validate your argument, but ignoring the rest.

What he said about the 'huge family' was:

"It's such a huge family of people and everyone they have is the best at what they do, from their video director to their lighting designer, they're all the best [in the business]"

See? Lighting designer, video director.. he'd probably have even met Gavin and Guggi, who have been around U2 since day 1. That's nothing new.

I've said before that these guys are a very part time band nowadays but it feels like they've taken it to a new level. At what point is this not a U2 album and merely a U2 franchise effort???

Except this interview says the opposite - that while they were busy touring and performing as a band, Bono had Barlow around to help them produce new songs as they went along. Sounds like doing double-duty as a band - making a new album while touring an old one. That's more akin to their creative peak of making Zooropa while touring Achtung. Not that I'd confuse the two, but that's what the article talked about more than what you're trying to take from it.

Take this quote - wow:

When Bono writes he doesn't write lyrics per se. We call it Bongolese. He'll basically make up words about the view or the cup of coffee he's drinking -- just pure channeling -- and from that we would find what feels good and piece it together. The next day he would listen to the vocal shape that we came up with, write a narrative and, when he was excited by something, take it to The Edge.

... and don't forget he continues:

"... take it to The Edge. From there, it would be like table tennis between the two of them -- like Lennon and McCartney bouncing ideas off each other."

Because Barlow comparing U2 to The Beatles is really backing up your point here. Sounds like Bono was doing overtime with a producer to get some songs started up, then he and Edge would build them up together. *wow*. Bono's *always* done this. I think it was Eno and Lanois that helped coin the term 'Bongolese' back in the day.

 

[Iggy Fizz]

I'm not cherry picking the quotes at all, to the contrary - the ones I point out fairly represent the questions/concerns I have raised. Sorry if that makes you mad.

- the point about 'big family' versus 'big corporation' refers specifically to the process of making music, not the tour group, marketing etc. Specifically, U2's creative process sounds much more reliant on a larger number of producers who are playing an even larger role in song creation than has traditionally been the case.

- the point about 'part time band' is fully supported by Barlow's comment about the band not dedicating more than a couple hours a day to the studio because they have so many other things going on. So my point is fully validated by this article/Barlow's comments.

hey it's fine to disagree... but you're not representing my points or perhaps understanding what the article is saying. Maybe you should read it again.

 

[BVS]

Specifically, U2's creative process sounds much more reliant on a larger number of producers who are playing an even larger role in song creation than has traditionally been the case.

You keep saying this, but where in this article are you getting this from? The number of producers may have changed, but nothing else from that article speaks to anything else changing. Can you point to or try and articulate your fear or being more reliant than the past?

- the point about 'part time band' is fully supported by Barlow's comment about the band not dedicating more than a couple hours a day to the studio because they have so many other things going on. So my point is fully validated by this article/Barlow's comments.

You mean like being on tour? I mean this is the busiest and most active as a band period we’ve had from U2 in over a decade.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

It's one thing for U2 to have a heavy reliance on producers to shape their sound when they are making songs I like, but it's bullshit when they're making songs I don't.

 

[Montrose]

I'm not cherry picking the quotes at all, to the contrary - the ones I point out fairly represent the questions/concerns I have raised. Sorry if that makes you mad.

That's the very definition of cherry-picking. You had an idea, then you went and selectively pulled phrases out of the interview to back up your point, even though, in context, those quotes do not back up your point.

- the point about 'big family' versus 'big corporation' refers specifically to the process of making music, not the tour group, marketing etc. Specifically, U2's creative process sounds much more reliant on a larger number of producers who are playing an even larger role in song creation than has traditionally been the case.

Except that, in the article, the 'big family' quote was specifically bout all the people who work with U2 for non-production activities too. So your point wasn't backed up by that quote.

There's nothing in the article either about producers either being more abundant, or taking on a larger role in song creation. If there is, show us.

For example: What's a U2 album where you believe there was the 'right' about of producers? Say, after War, to keep it within the last 35 years.

- the point about 'part time band' is fully supported by Barlow's comment about the band not dedicating more than a couple hours a day to the studio because they have so many other things going on. So my point is fully validated by this article/Barlow's comments.

hey it's fine to disagree... but you're not representing my points or perhaps understanding what the article is saying. Maybe you should read it again.

I don't need to represent your points - I'm representing the article, in full, and in context. If that doesn't match your points, you can't expect to keep hammering the square peg of Barlow's words into the round hole of your argument and expect a lot of nods of agreement.

Again, your 'part time band' point is not fully supported by Barlow. You relegated it to just 'a couple of hours a day' but neglected the context of it being while they were still *really busy being a band*.. unless you think just recording music is all a band should do?

Here's what Barlow said:

"His take on it [this time] was, if we get someone in while we're on the road and we do bits of writing, by the time we come to do the record we'll have already got the shape and feel of it and won't have the same sort of pressure. So that's what we did."

and

"The rest of the band was like, "Bono, you're off your head. We're already really busy. We've got loads of press to do. We're trying to rehearse and you've got this guy who you're writing and recording with. What the fuck? This is crazy."

and

"At one point, we had 60 songs"

and

"Another thing is, quite often they are only in the studio for only a couple of hours per day, as they are so busy doing other stuff."

That last point is the only one you think makes them a part-time band, but to me it hints at them being a very successful band with a lot of resources that makes this sort of thing possible.

Take it as you will.

 

[Iggy Fizz]

It's one thing for U2 to have a heavy reliance on producers to shape their sound when they are making songs I like, but it's bullshit when they're making songs I don't.

just curious - do you like the new album?

despite my mixed feelings about all the producers etc, I am digging much of SOE...

 

[Iggy Fizz]

That's the very definition of cherry-picking. You had an idea, then you went and selectively pulled phrases out of the interview to back up your point, even though, in context, those quotes do not back up your point.



Except that, in the article, the 'big family' quote was specifically bout all the people who work with U2 for non-production activities too. So your point wasn't backed up by that quote.

There's nothing in the article either about producers either being more abundant, or taking on a larger role in song creation. If there is, show us.

For example: What's a U2 album where you believe there was the 'right' about of producers? Say, after War, to keep it within the last 35 years.



I don't need to represent your points - I'm representing the article, in full, and in context. If that doesn't match your points, you can't expect to keep hammering the square peg of Barlow's words into the round hole of your argument and expect a lot of nods of agreement.

Again, your 'part time band' point is not fully supported by Barlow. You relegated it to just 'a couple of hours a day' but neglected the context of it being while they were still *really busy being a band*.. unless you think just recording music is all a band should do?

Here's what Barlow said:

"His take on it [this time] was, if we get someone in while we're on the road and we do bits of writing, by the time we come to do the record we'll have already got the shape and feel of it and won't have the same sort of pressure. So that's what we did."

and

"The rest of the band was like, "Bono, you're off your head. We're already really busy. We've got loads of press to do. We're trying to rehearse and you've got this guy who you're writing and recording with. What the fuck? This is crazy."

and

"At one point, we had 60 songs"

and

"Another thing is, quite often they are only in the studio for only a couple of hours per day, as they are so busy doing other stuff."

That last point is the only one you think makes them a part-time band, but to me it hints at them being a very successful band with a lot of resources that makes this sort of thing possible.

Take it as you will.

we'll have to agree to disagree...

 

[BVS]

[emoji23]

 

[MattD]

Not to get sidetracked, but Brian Eno as a collaborator to Ryan Tedder is a massive massive drop in quality.

Tedder's influence is negligible at best, destructive at worst. An offering of flimsy, hollow teeny pop music in place of the introspective but widescreen imaginative soundscapes of Eno means Bono and co need a serious reality check.

 

[Gzusfrk]

Not to get sidetracked, but Brian Eno as a collaborator to Ryan Tedder is a massive massive drop in quality.

Tedder's influence is negligible at best, destructive at worst. An offering of flimsy, hollow teeny pop music in place of the introspective but widescreen imaginative soundscapes of Eno means Bono and co need a serious reality check.

I agree that Brian Eno and/or Daniel Lanois is preferable to Ryan Tedder, but i think One Republic have some good pop songs. They are a pop group. I think in the future they will be viewed a bit better creatively and Tedder with a bit more respect than currently, kind of like The Bee Gees (who I love , BTW!).

For whatever reason, though, U2 is enamored with Tedder, and he is influencing their writing, sound, and style a great deal right now.

He doesn't need U2, but for better or worse, they feel they need him.

 

[BVS]

Not to get sidetracked, but Brian Eno as a collaborator to Ryan Tedder is a massive massive drop in quality.

Tedder's influence is negligible at best, destructive at worst. An offering of flimsy, hollow teeny pop music in place of the introspective but widescreen imaginative soundscapes of Eno means Bono and co need a serious reality check.

Is it a drop in quality or change in direction?

I’m curious what you find hollow and teeny, about this album?

I mean you can build a chair in classical baroque style and mid century modern, but both can be of high quality. Neither would require a reality check.

 

[kiwilad]

Is it a drop in quality or change in direction?

I’m curious what you find hollow and teeny, about this album?

I mean you can build a chair in classical baroque style and mid century modern, but both can be of high quality. Neither would require a reality check.

Yeah I think this is a fair statement. This album surprised me as much as it did because of the ambient nature of it. Had you told me this was an Eno produced album before I heard it, I would have accepted that after listening.
Then again I'm no music expert and have never set foot in a studio...
But BVS's point is a good one. This is a quality album. Quality songwriting and production.
So credit to Tedder where it's due.
That said a final Eno/Lanois/U2 album is my hope.

 

[akann]

These were exactly the kinds of concerns that made me think about this topic. One Republic already tweeted to it's fans that they may "recognize" U2's Summer of Love as West Coast from the Oh My My sessions, and Tedder writing the chorus melody for EBW, which I think is a major songwriting contribution, others disagree. Yet both songs still say Music by U2. With the integrity that the band puts forth in discussing their relavance, creative process, and wanting to push themselves, this bothers me too.

Am pretty sure that 1R did not tweet that. It came from a 1R fan twitter account.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Is it a drop in quality or change in direction?

I’m curious what you find hollow and teeny, about this album?

I mean you can build a chair in classical baroque style and mid century modern, but both can be of high quality. Neither would require a reality check.

He's not a fan of Tedder's work on Love Is Bigger Than Anything In Its Way.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

just curious - do you like the new album?

despite my mixed feelings about all the producers etc, I am digging much of SOE...

I do, but I've put it on hold for a while. Purposefully haven't listened to much of it in about 2 weeks so that I can try and have a rational judgement on if I actually like it or if it's just new U2 clouding my judgement.

 

[BVS]

He's not a fan of Tedder's work on Love Is Bigger Than Anything In Its Way.

Well who is?

I mean besides Gzuscrfkz