Songs of Ascent - Part III

[subnet]

JT > R&H
AB > Zooropa
Boy > October > War > TUF

history suggests 2 or less years to me

 

[Niceman]

JT > R&H
AB > Zooropa
Boy > October > War > TUF

history suggests 2 or less years to me

People have such short memories on this board! I can only assume they all became fans after Beautiful Day?

 

[Gonna Run 2 U]

I would really like to hear Every Breaking Wave considering it sounds finished.

 

[Vlad n U 2]

I would really like to hear Every Breaking Wave considering it sounds finished.

Me too, the descriptions of the song sound very intriguing. Could well be something special.

 

[subnet]

People have such short memories on this board! I can only assume they all became fans after Beautiful Day?

right, there is nothing holding back from another R&H style release. Or another Zooropa style release. I'm all for either. Heck, if they have a good set of songs already in queue, but need new mixes or need changes to the bridge (hint hint, typical U2) then I'm actually all for them speeding through the process a little less polished. It's OK Bono.

 

[Niceman]

right, there is nothing holding back from another R&H style release. Or another Zooropa style release. I'm all for either. Heck, if they have a good set of songs already in queue, but need new mixes or need changes to the bridge (hint hint, typical U2) then I'm actually all for them speeding through the process a little less polished. It's OK Bono.

Yep. It's only been the last two albums that they've taken forever on. Career-long, they've averaged much faster!

Boy 1980
October 1981
War 1983
(Under a Blood Red Sky 1983)
Unforgettable Fire 1984
Joshua Tree 1987
Rattle and Hum 1988
Achtung baby 1991
Zooropa 1993
Passengers 1995
Pop 1997
(Million Dollar Hotel 1999)
All That You Can't Leave Behind 2000
How To Dismantle an Atomic Bomb 2004
No Line on the Horizon 2009

 

[Screwtape2]

If EBW is as good of a song and single as the band says, then why do they need more pop songs for radio? Beautiful Day and Vertigo were enough for ATYCLB and Bomb. Those albums would have been massive sellers even without the other singles.

 

[Niceman]

EBW was a good enough song to get left OFF of NLOTH........ I'm sure it's a good song, but they can't think it was the best track they had......

 

[Vlad n U 2]

In their opinion that title belonged to Moment of Surrender. But it is all personal opinion, no doubt about it.

 

[Catman]

EBW was a good enough song to get left OFF of NLOTH........ I'm sure it's a good song, but they can't think it was the best track they had......

This is my logic. We always hear in interviews that they had a wealth of material to choose from, but in the end U2 simply decided to pick "the best songs." I'm not saying SONGS OF ASCENT will basically be a record of b-sides, but if NLOTH failed to produce a classic "45," as Bono likes to call 'em, then I would say SoA is SoL.

 

[dan_smee]

actually, didnt they say that NLOTH was the songs of best fit, and EBW was saved to spearhead the next project because it suited the style they were targetting more. Even if that style or idea has changed, the song could still be the best they had

 

[powerhour24]

^Agreed, I just hope they don't change that style, that's what made it so intriguing... not just salivating at the idea of being rewarded with more than one album after the wait.

 

[ozeeko]

the problem with U2 is that they go into second guessing mode with every album (at least recently). For all we know they have an album of songs that are very musical and adventurous and blah blah whatever atmospheric, but then they start panicking if there isn't an obvious hit single. Whatever, I'm sure every artist thinks like that, but the problem these days is U2 doesn't look at what they have and decide what could be a hit, instead they try to cultivate a "hit" out of thin air, which is the wrong way to go. Was "With Or Without You" a hit song from the get-go? No, they were actually talked into releasing it as a single. These days, it seems (and maybe i'm wrong) that they go out of their way to make something accesible, which is the wrong way. Would Mysterious Ways have made it to the album in its finished form that we know now if the U2 of today was recording it?? I don't know. Maybe they would've overcooked it, tacked on some cheesy sentiment, and reigned in the rhythmic pulse a little, made it less slinky and sexy and more bombastic.

 

[dan_smee]

I do agree that now they have the time and money to spend on an album they sometimes make the wrong artistic choices re what they release. Still, it's their band, their music and their decision, and I am just grateful that they still make music when they dont need to, have to, or owe us anything

 

[BVS]

the problem with U2 is that they go into second guessing mode with every album (at least recently). For all we know they have an album of songs that are very musical and adventurous and blah blah whatever atmospheric, but then they start panicking if there isn't an obvious hit single. Whatever, I'm sure every artist thinks like that, but the problem these days is U2 doesn't look at what they have and decide what could be a hit, instead they try to cultivate a "hit" out of thin air, which is the wrong way to go. Was "With Or Without You" a hit song from the get-go? No, they were actually talked into releasing it as a single. These days, it seems (and maybe i'm wrong) that they go out of their way to make something accesible, which is the wrong way. Would Mysterious Ways have made it to the album in its finished form that we know now if the U2 of today was recording it?? I don't know. Maybe they would've overcooked it, tacked on some cheesy sentiment, and reigned in the rhythmic pulse a little, made it less slinky and sexy and more bombastic.

I don't understand your point about MW it was a pretty obvious hit from day one. Now WOWY you have a point, but not with MW.

The problem is the audience and mediums today, you either have to be Lady Gaga or you have to be an "underground" success.

U2 is in a weird place, and it sucks for them. If they had released Magnificent or NLOTH in the 90's it probably would have done very well.

It sounds like they still want to change radio, but unfortunately times are different radio is going to have to change first before U2 or anyone else of real artistic merit changes it.

 

[ozeeko]

I don't understand your point about MW it was a pretty obvious hit from day one. Now WOWY you have a point, but not with MW.

The problem is the audience and mediums today, you either have to be Lady Gaga or you have to be an "underground" success.

U2 is in a weird place, and it sucks for them. If they had released Magnificent or NLOTH in the 90's it probably would have done very well.

It sounds like they still want to change radio, but unfortunately times are different radio is going to have to change first before U2 or anyone else of real artistic merit changes it.

I agree with you about the state of the radio these days.

I was just using Mysterious Ways as a random example.

U2 are old, what are you gonna do? I find it unfortunate that they desperately need to compete with the top acts on the crappy radio. In their place, where they are now, they should just be focusing on good music rather than what song will be the one to take it all home and win the Grammy for song of the year.

I always find it ironic that Bono cites all these influences (Dylan, Lou Reed, Patti Smith, Leonard Cohen) yet his main motivation these days is hit singles (then again maybe its Edge's and Larry's, who knows). But being that he's so schooled and well learned in music history, he should be making more of an effort to come up with something that will remain truly timeless and more poetic, and not pandering to the Killers' and Kings Of Leons' fans. He knows a great deal about poetry and music legends, let him apply that to his own band.

If i was in the room with Bono, I'd say "you've done it. Beautiful Day was a blockbuster hit. No one will ever forget that. Now you can relax and write the music you've always wanted to write." Trust me, the music wouldn't be weird avante garde jazzy shit, it would still have hooks and melodies. But in my opinion their music would sound more genuine, more lived-in, more about the music, and less about competing with here today gone tommorrow pop bands.

 

[BVS]

I always find it ironic that Bono cites all these influences (Dylan, Lou Reed, Patti Smith, Leonard Cohen) yet his main motivation these days is hit singles (then again maybe its Edge's and Larry's, who knows). But being that he's so schooled and well learned in music history, he should be making more of an effort to come up with something that will remain truly timeless and more poetic, and not pandering to the Killers' and Kings Of Leons' fans. He knows a great deal about poetry and music legends, let him apply that to his own band.

If i was in the room with Bono, I'd say "you've done it. Beautiful Day was a blockbuster hit. No one will ever forget that. Now you can relax and write the music you've always wanted to write." Trust me, the music wouldn't be weird avante garde jazzy shit, it would still have hooks and melodies. But in my opinion their music would sound more genuine, more lived-in, more about the music, and less about competing with here today gone tommorrow pop bands.

I completely understand what you are saying, but I still say U2 are in uncharted territory. No band has lasted this long and still been "relevant". Dylan, Reed, Smith all had their time, still release good music every once in awhile but their new material is irrelevant(I can't believe Dylan is doing a Christmas album!!!). So I can understand their mindset. If they did the SOA that you would like them to do more than likely they would eventually be playing theaters, or have to settle for Greatest Hit tours, neither one they would enjoy.

Honestly, U2 should retire fairly soon or they will become the Stones. I personally think that would be sad because I do think they have it in them but age(as far as the audience is concerned) plays a factor.

 

[ozeeko]

I think they just need to accept the fact that no band is going to live forever. The music will live on, yes, but the band are gonna keep getting old and finally one day they're gonna call it quits.

In my opinion, they should be satisfied, overjoyed with what they've accomplished. There shouldn't be a need to be on top all the time. They've done it, what, 3 or 4 different times in different eras? Does it ever solve anything? Do they ever take solace in it? No, they keep trying to hit number one, which is admirable, but its also very limiting. To be number one all the time you have to compromise. And we are living in an age where to be number one you have to almost completely compromise all artistic integrity and write banal easy to digest music. Long gone are the days of Led Zeppellin where a band didn't need to release a #1 single to be the top band in the world. These days there's too many options, too many avenues, too many opportunities, too many bands getting in and we can't keep track of any of them. So U2 should just come to terms with what they've accomplished and just record music for the sake of it.

I know Radiohead isn't what Bono is all about, but trust me I'll be listening to KidA, Amnesiac, HTTT and In Rainbows for many years to come, while the only relatively recent U2 release I'll ever feel anything for is ATYCLB. And that was an album recorded in a different way, a different approach, and it worked, it wasn't forced. Sometimes I wonder what U2 would've done if that album didn't deliver. It put them on top again, yes, but it also gave them a reputation they couldn't live up to, the non stop optimistic singles band. (this is all in my opinion of course)

 

[daygloeyes2]

the cover is dreadfull

Easily the worst album cover of 2010.

 

[U2girl]

I would like to have one of our songs on the pop charts. It's my only disappointment [with No Line on the Horizon] People love, love the album it's had rave reviews, not just in the U.S., but all over the world. But I would like a few pop songs on it. So I would like, even on Songs of Ascent, songs that have a shot at that.

= NLOTH didn't sell enough. Nice logic.

I was surprised that Crazy or Magnificent didn't do more on the charts. Not because NLOTH needs to sell and not because U2 needs 10+ million album sales but because NLOTH deserves a shot with the same audience that ATYCLB and Bomb had. It should have the same opportunity to be heard by the folks outside the hard core U2 fandom.
Interestingly it sounds like SOA is a really left field album if "even on that" they have to work extra to try and get on the radio.

 

[U2girl]

This is nothing new; this is how WGRYWH ended up on Achtung Baby. Business as usaual.

Yes...the American label execs said "this is your radio song". And then Lillywhite worked on it. For a month.

 

[Gonna Run 2 U]

I think they are going to have trouble with their next release. I think they are going to wonder whether they play it safe and release some catch rockers with Rubin or release Songs Of Ascent and later "reapply for the worlds best band"...again

 

[PookaMacP]

One thing. Pop/Radio Friendly does not necessarily equal bad. NLOTH excepted, U2's 'pop' singles of the last ten or so years haven't been that bad (the reworked 'Sweetest Thing', the brilliant 'Stuck in a Moment You Can't Get Out Of', the criminally forgotten 'Window in the Skies'). NLOTH - which for me remains their best album since Achtung Baby - would almost certainly have had different reception if the intensely 'Magnificent' had been the first single.

Sometimes, as anyone who has heard the alternate takes of Bob Dylan's Blood on the Tracks will testify, artists are not the best judges of their own work.

 

[Irvine511]

I'd say "you've done it. Beautiful Day was a blockbuster hit. No one will ever forget that. Now you can relax and write the music you've always wanted to write."

maybe what Bono wants to write are massive, memorable tunes -- for all the Leonard Cohen, Bono also talks about wanting to write "bridge over troubled water" or some undeniable classic that your 6 year old niece and your 86 year old grandmother love.

 

[Irvine511]

One thing. Pop/Radio Friendly does not necessarily equal bad. NLOTH excepted, U2's 'pop' singles of the last ten or so years haven't been that bad (the reworked 'Sweetest Thing', the brilliant 'Stuck in a Moment You Can't Get Out Of', the criminally forgotten 'Window in the Skies'). NLOTH - which for me remains their best album since Achtung Baby - would almost certainly have had different reception if the intensely 'Magnificent' had been the first single.

Sometimes, as anyone who has heard the alternate takes of Bob Dylan's Blood on the Tracks will testify, artists are not the best judges of their own work.

people hated GOYB. and there's so much competition for head space -- that's what really matters, it's not that something is so easy and digestible but that something really grabs your attention from the vast landscape of popular culture that gets more crowded every year -- that you absolutely need to come out with your guns blazing and throw up your absolute best right off the bat if you don't want to get swallowed.

GOYB = Discotheque, in many people's minds.

you can argue the merits of the individual songs, but you can't argue that those two songs didn't connect, and didn't reinforce and advance the U2 brand, in the way that BD and Vertigo did.

 

[mikal]

i am so pissed about this "Radio" thing. it would be horrible if the next album has songs like:

NYD
Streets
WOWY
Mysterious Way
Beautiful Day

 

[U2girl]

NLOTH - which for me remains their best album since Achtung Baby - would almost certainly have had different reception if the intensely 'Magnificent' had been the first single.

I would have liked to see them try with NLOTH as the lead single. Acessible, yet different enough from the last two albums.

U2 is probably plainly too old to have a big single (in the US). Vertigo may have been it in the Hitsville, USA for U2.

 

[Niceman]

I know Radiohead isn't what Bono is all about, but trust me I'll be listening to KidA, Amnesiac, HTTT and In Rainbows for many years to come, while the only relatively recent U2 release I'll ever feel anything for is ATYCLB. And that was an album recorded in a different way, a different approach, and it worked, it wasn't forced. Sometimes I wonder what U2 would've done if that album didn't deliver. It put them on top again, yes, but it also gave them a reputation they couldn't live up to, the non stop optimistic singles band. (this is all in my opinion of course)

I think that ATYCLB was the MOST forced, desperate to be relevant, desperate to appeal to the pop-kids album they've ever recorded!

 

[djerdap]

but if we're following history, then you must be aware that never has the band given the album title and name of the first single to their follow up this soon. so while i agree that history would suggest that the next album won't come out until 2012-2013, you must also keep in mind that the circumstances are different this time around.

It's all Bono's words, and we know how he is prone to hyperbole - the man has given already so many overreacted and misleading assessments for their new material (whether it's a release date thing or "punk rock on Venus" ridiculousness). It's simply his nature to be over-zealous about these kinds of things.

Clayton actually went on record to say that Bono hears a song after a note or two, and that he wouldn't be that optimistic. It's from Bono's mouth we've heard the album title and his idea of a 1st single. The rest of the band has been reasonably subdued. I think it would be a miracle if the record would go out in 2010 - after all, the last two records were also planned to be out long before they actually were. And Bono was the one, as stated in U2 by U2 who wanted The Bomb to be out in 2003, for example, with all those alternate mixes (shame that it wasn't). So yeah, there may be more details given away in the press this time around, but keep in mind they weren't yet in the studio working these songs after NLOTH came out, and I bet as soon as they get there, they'll start with their usual overtly cautious approach (making 100 mixes of one song as for Breathe or Stand Up Comedy and so on) that plagued the last couple of records. Hence the newest "we want some songs to be heard on the radio" statements.

 

[U2girl]

Bono does hype, but consider the band is planning to record in the tour break after the US leg ends. Consider they still want SOA out soon (for U2 standards). Consider Eno allegedly already listened to the songs. Consider they have a clear idea on SOA and the first single (in the spring if Bono has his way), Every breaking wave. Of course it's possible they will go back and re-do it all but there's not anything in the quotes so far to suggest 2010 is not happening. It also looks like the Rick Rubin album will be the more straightforward, guitar album. SOA will be to NLOTH what Zooropa was to AB.

The most ridiculous thing about "punk rock on Venus" was the fans applying a comment on a 2003 record to the finished 2004 album.