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Atomic Lemon! Been a while..
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So, I don't know much about music structure, harmony, melody and so forth. And every time I read a post about this stuff, especially the concept of "over production" "over produced" I just go
And I'm not diminishing this post, I'd just like an example of a song that is "over produced" and how or why is that conclusion reached?
Then, the Quincy MD in me wants to know, "what songs would be described as "under produced" and "not enough production" ?"
I don't think I've ever read a post that says, "yeah, I like the track, but it was way way under produced"
So, kill some more time to September and help a guy out please.
Atomic Lemon! Been a while..
Bono is not appearing at the charity show in montreal now according to atu2.com
here's a handy list. from wikipedia
An overproduced sound is some combination of the following:
- Heavy use of audio processing effects such as reverb, delay, or dynamic range compression.
- Heavy layering or multitracking; in the context of pop and rock music, this may refer to the addition of elements such as chorused vocals or backing strings.
- Radio versions of songs pushed to be more "pop" through the use of loud drum beats or other instrumentation changes.
- Heavy use of pitch correction, time correction, or quantization.
- A recording overseen by a producer who "imposes" his own distinctive "sound" or techniques on a band or artist; Producers frequently accused of this kind of "overproduction" include Phil Spector[1][2] and Mutt Lange.[3]
I think U2 suffers most from the bolded bullet points, and I think that over the last 20-ish years they've begun make songwriting choices based on what the studio can do for their songs.
EBW is a perfect example. Honestly, what's the point of the SOI version?
This band will never sit together in a room, play that song, and sound like that. It's not the product of those four guys. It's an arrangement and mix designed to sound like pop music in 2014, presumably for airplay. it's not one that serves the band and the song.
And they end up stripping it completely back in the end anyway. In doing so, lo and behold it carries way more impact! It sounds like them
I can list at least 20 huge U2 songs before EBW that fit this description easily, including our most beloved live tracks which would clearly sound pretty hollow without the 5th member of the band. So I think your point is kindof moot, really. They could easily perform EBW full band. Easily.
Imagine Bad without backing tracks? That shit would be terrible
Everything post War is based on what a producer can do with their sound. This is not new.
maybe I didn't state my point well.. sure, they could play this arrangement, but it wouldn't sound as it does on the record. Even with a backing track, or someone rounding out the sound playing rhythm below, I dont think the song would sound good as it does on the record.
They likely rehearsed the song as it's recorded, but I'm guessing it lacked punch when it came to The Big Moments (ex. "you go" followed by Edge's chorus riff). These moments are manufactured for impact on record, but there's a polish and fullness here that I don't think we'd get live.
Hey, I know I might be talking out my ass here, but it's telling that they opted for a more stripped down sound on tour. Live, the strength of the song became the strength of the band, and in particular Bono, who took that chorus and gave it another kind of Big Moment. Arguably, it's a better song because of it.
On record, the production choices suggest they were chasing a certain sound that would sound great on the radio next to Sam Smith and the Script. They weren't choices that played to the strengths of the band. They served the idea of Song as Single rather than song as a "product of these four guys playing their guts out."
Why did they do it? Because they need big radio play to be the band that they want to be. It's still a great song, but I'd argue that its production undermines their greatest strengths. Can't blame Tedder, he's helping them get what they want.
it's just not what I want. which is all that matters, of course
These moments are manufactured for impact on record, but there's a polish and fullness here that I don't think we'd get live.
Hey, I know I might be talking out my ass here, but it's telling that they opted for a more stripped down sound on tour.
Imagine Bad without backing tracks? That shit would be terrible
Everything post War is based on what a producer can do with their sound. This is not new.
I'm not sure why/ or what you think it's telling of? But I'm not really buying your argument, your ignoring decades of U2.
I think that the term "over produced" is being misused a lot in respect to the band. Let's be honest, UF and on have been produced to the hilt, mostly with stunning results.
I think the root cause of a messy song is the songwriting itself. U2's greatness to me, has always been the openness and seamlessness of the songs. Songs from UF, JT, AB, that soar from verse to chorus. Their songs could meander in a way, and not fit the standard verse/chorus/verse template to a tee, and that was their beauty.
I feel that its when they actually focus on what they call "traditional songwriting" is when there are hiccups. Or if not hiccups, they just come out bland and neutered sounding.
I think a great mix of both worlds, is a song like Stay or AIWIY or WGRYWH... Those are pretty standard song structures, but they still soar like only a U2 song can.
I also put EBW into this category even though some might label it as "over produced", to me it came out for the better.
it's telling of the band's realization that the stripped down version is a stronger version. that the version on record isn't the best showcase of this song.
Ironically the version that they ended up pushing for radio was closer in spirit to the live version.
Recall
I disagree. I think the only thing it's telling of is that they knew they couldn't hide a guitarist under the stage for this one, the tour was coming up/on, and they wanted to push something out that would show continuity between radio and live. And, maybe a bit of Sam Smith envy
The album version blows this away. If only he was singing the chorus similarly. Maybe a bit of the piano. But the whole "epic movie soundtrack" vibe of this leaves me meh
it's telling of the band's realization that the stripped down version is a stronger version. that the version on record isn't the best showcase of this song.
Ironically the version that they ended up pushing for radio was closer in spirit to the live version.
Recall
BTW, props to us.
a lot of you disagree with me, but no one is an asshole about it. not many online forums where that is the case!
The album version blows this away. If only he was singing the chorus similarly. Maybe a bit of the piano. But the whole "epic movie soundtrack" vibe of this leaves me meh
it's telling of the band's realization that the stripped down version is a stronger version. that the version on record isn't the best showcase of this song.
Ironically the version that they ended up pushing for radio was closer in spirit to the live version.
Recall
That's from Q magazine - the issue that had Bono on it, recently.
Valencia are probably just guessing. We know they've got a single coming in a few weeks, so yeah, they'll be filming a video.
For the sake not having to dig through 1000 posts in the old thread, could someone brief us on news about the single? Is the nearby release date speculation? Is it assumed the beach clip leak will be the single?
gotta say, a couple years later I much prefer the full band version. I was really into the promo versions with the string sections for awhile, and it was nice when Larry and Adam came in.
the ie version left me pretty underwhelmed, and I thought it really killed the energy. I saw them 18 times last summer, and to this day I still think The Troubles was received much, much better than EBW -- granted I only saw Troubles twice.
I think we're assuming the beach clip is the single as it sounds so poppy...
And while there's been no official word citing when the single gets released, you can bet the farm that it's released the week of September 19.
do you radio? I do.
For the sake not having to dig through 1000 posts in the old thread, could someone brief us on news about the single? Is the nearby release date speculation? Is it assumed the beach clip leak will be the single?
Imagine Bad without backing tracks? That shit would be terrible
Everything post War is based on what a producer can do with their sound. This is not new.
Assuming the beach clip is a single? Maybe. But wasn't 'The Troubles' a beach clip? And that wasn't a single.
Instagram Alert - news flash: Bono NOT in long sleeve black shirt in hot country!
I disagree. I think the only thing it's telling of is that they knew they couldn't hide a guitarist under the stage for this one, the tour was coming up/on, and they wanted to push something out that would show continuity between radio and live. And, maybe a bit ofSam SmithAdelecurrent radio hit envy
The album version blows this away. If only he was singing the chorus similarly. Maybe a bit of the piano. But the whole "epic movie soundtrack" vibe of this leaves me meh