So Whats Wrong With NLOTH

[JOFO]

I'm not really into the new album. It's good-ish, but at this point it's going to take a lot to excite me with a new U2 release. Since I've been following them since the late 80s, I've seen them go through peak of popularity, to re-invention, to fall-out in contemporary relevance, to re-emergence in pop culture, and now the new album. I don't hold it against them that I find NLOTH a bit boring and badly written, since it's remarkably exceptional that they've stayed popular and active for this long. (I really consider everything after Pop to be a bonus and to be irrelevant to their legacy, whether I like it or not.) I think what's finally happening now is that U2 has ceased to be about new music -- as, to some extent, have all older artists who've been going for 20 or more years -- and become more about the tour and the "event". As much as they try to fight against that trend, they also encourage it by making everything they do on the biggest, grandest scale possible. Inevitably this makes people more excited about the tour than the new album, even if the album is a corker (which I don't think this one is). And the older they get, the harder it is to generate excitement. I can't see how this album will win over many new fans, so they're really preaching to the converted at this point in the game. That's fine, but if it's so, I don't think they need to go such huge endeavours and monstrously big tours, etc. Personally, I would like them, at this point, to concentrate more on new music and craft and less on being BIG, as I don't think they're going to get anywhere further in that direction. I mean, they are nearly 50 years old.

But anyway, the new album is good, as always, but for me it's overproduced and not melodic enough, and has some oversinging. I quite like "Magnificent", "Unknown Caller", and "White As Snow", but none of them are as good as the three best songs on the two preceding albums, let alone the 80s/early 90s stuff.

This is a good post; I agree with everything you say here.
The labum is fading fast for me. I am so upset by that, because I don't want it to be....but I am just having a hard time REALLY digging it. It's good. It's fine. But it's not worth the hype that surrounded it, and it's almost as if it's not even the same band anymore.
I dunno what it is. I've tried to not think about it too much and just listen to the album when I'm in the mood. It's just not holding my attention. I think the first 3 songs are great; really pull you in. After that....ehh....it slides away from me, apart from some nice moments on Cedars, Fez, ....

*upset*

 

[BVS]

Jagged Little Pill was her first album and full of perfect 'formula' pop songs, not quite so exciting but very successful and the lyrics were very good even then. Of course she had help, she was young, it was her first album. She even talked about writing You Oughta Know with, I guess Glen Ballard and saying that they got to a place where she was able to get in touch with some very raw feelings. I don't believe she meant that they were HIS feelings. She then got famous and successful overnight and went off to India, now maybe you can tell me, Oh Knowledgeable One, was that under the direction of her music management, I don't think it was. Then she came back with the next album which she probably also had help with, crafting and editing etc. Does she have to do everything herself to make it count as a proper effort 'cause I don't think she does and that's ok.

It actually wasn't her first album. She was quite the pop princess in Canada before Jagged Little Pill, but it was her first "real" album. I don't care if she had help, you are missing my point all together, you brought her up as an example as someone who is more "honest" than Bono and I didn't find her to be a great example given the fact that her biggest album had a lot of questions as to how much she actually wrote. That's it. That's not hard to understand.

As for Morrissey, have you listened to every Morrissey song ever released, it doesn't sound like you have. Because I have. Pretty much.

I have. Once again you fail...

I'm sorry you don't find me articulate but I really don't feel like saying oh I don't understand this and having you explain it to me with well it could mean this or it could mean that etc and then oooh not really sure I get this either and then you give me your interpretation again and we COULD go through the entire album like that and I we'd have a REALLY nice view of the trees and YOU still wouldn't be seeing the forest, which is me saying the album doesn't have any clear themes, any strong emotions, any cohesion, and I just think they should call it a day instead of milking out the last dregs of whatever 'talent' for want of a better word they still have, because Bono still wants to be in the 'biggest band in the world' and is still getting a buzz off the the crowd ( I can't believe it!). I think he is stuck in a rut.

They should call it a day because YOU don't get it? Wow. Because you don't find Bono to be honest, yet you can't explain what that mean. YOU are the one I think might be stuck in a rut. You are making very little sense.

I asked for examples of what you meant by Bono can't be honest lyrically, and you couldn't provide any? It doesn't really sound like you know what you are talking about...

You don't like the album, that's fine, but your reasoning is quite baffling, I just don't think you really know why you don't like it.

I honestly think this is the best album they've done this decade and if it wasn't for one or two songs could be up there in the category of near classic albums. I don't think this album suffers from any milking, the only thing this album suffered from is the slapping on of Stand Up and Crazy Tonight. I actually like Crazy Tonight but you get the sense that they thought this album may be a little too out there so they had to slap on some really straight forward songs to even it out.

 

[asr]

This album made me a REAL U2 fan again!!

Hence, I certainly don't find anything wrong with it. Unlike the previous two, I only skip TWO songs on NLOTH. On HTDAAB, I only liked 5 out of 12 songs[the UK version with 'Fast Cars']. On ATYCLB, I only like five out of eleven[the US version w/out 'The Ground Beneath Her Feet']

On No Line......

NINE out of eleven. So I reiterate, this is the only TRUELY good album they have done this decade in my opinion.

 

[Mrs. Vedder]

I completely agree with Mrs Vedder, apart from her rotten taste in men that is. It seems as if some people here don't know much about debating though they claim to like it. If someone says this is HOW I FEEL about something you don't come back at them with 'PROVE IT, WERE YOU THERE!???!!!' If you feel the need to reply it is probably because you feel something completely different about it, that it is chock full of , that it is so passionate it makes your head spin, that it makes you laugh, cry, it makes you angry whatever . SO SAY SO! That's one of the things about 'art', it is one thing to feel something, it is another thing to express those feelings and something else entirely when your audience empathises and feels the same way you do.

Oh and Mrs Vedder, please don't run away. I am all agog to hear your opinions!

WHAT?!?!? Rotten Taste in men??

 

[shaun vox]

Hey ive been away from the u2 camp since the new album came out.
(not a fan of the album) but still a u2 fan, if that makes sense.

the problem with NLOTH is that, not all songs can stand alone.
only Magnificent and MOS hold the album. Take those two songs out and you are left with average tracks.i also believe that "Breath" is overly overrated, people like this(song) yet cant see the beauty and complexity of(wild horses)compare this album too JT, Achtung or even Pop.
it does not stand a chance.
peace. im out.

 

[BVS]

I would have thought at least NLOTH the song would have been right up your alley...

 

[shaun vox]

i think NLOTH 2 (song) is much better. hope they play it Live like that.

 

[johndarling]

It actually wasn't her first album. She was quite the pop princess in Canada before Jagged Little Pill, but it was her first "real" album. I don't care if she had help, you are missing my point all together, you brought her up as an example as someone who is more "honest" than Bono and I didn't find her to be a great example given the fact that her biggest album had a lot of questions as to how much she actually wrote. That's it. That's not hard to understand.

I have. Once again you fail...


They should call it a day because YOU don't get it? Wow. Because you don't find Bono to be honest, yet you can't explain what that mean. YOU are the one I think might be stuck in a rut. You are making very little sense.

I asked for examples of what you meant by Bono can't be honest lyrically, and you couldn't provide any? It doesn't really sound like you know what you are talking about...

You don't like the album, that's fine, but your reasoning is quite baffling, I just don't think you really know why you don't like it.

I honestly think this is the best album they've done this decade and if it wasn't for one or two songs could be up there in the category of near classic albums. I don't think this album suffers from any milking, the only thing this album suffered from is the slapping on of Stand Up and Crazy Tonight. I actually like Crazy Tonight but you get the sense that they thought this album may be a little too out there so they had to slap on some really straight forward songs to even it out.

Wow! It's like you're living in an alternate universe where no one understands anything.

Sorry mate, you're a little too aggressive for me. Let's call it a day.........

 

[BVS]

I'm fine with calling it a day, I kinda realized you wouldn't be able to really support anything you said when you couldn't post any specific examples of lyrics...

But don't try to spin this as something I don't understand. You couldn't even give a simple example, and no one is exactly backing you up here...

I hear a lot of the same arguments in here, some valid, some not so much, but I've never heard the Bono isn't an honest lyricist one.

So maybe, just maybe it's you who might be living in an alternate universe where Morrisey is considered an honest straight forward lyricist and Bono is a liar.

 

[ozeeko]

I just want to say that Morrisey is probably one of the most unflinchingly honest lyricists ever in pop music. Is he witty and ironic? Yea, sure, but that all stems from a deep insecurity. His humor is his mask. Like he says in I Know It's Over- "If you're so funny...then why are you on your own tonight?" Listen to songs like Pretty Girls Make Graves, Heaven Knows I'm Miserable Now, Accept Yourself, How Soon Is Now?...these songs are direct views into his tortured soul.

 

[BVS]

True, but it begs the question as to what you mean by "honest" lyricist...

Some will find masks to be dishonest. I've been trying to get this poster to define what he means by honest, and he won't.

Does he mean that Bono won't write heart on his sleeve lyrics like Ryan Adams, does he mean that he writes in characters? What does he mean? AND so what? Who says a lyricist has to be honest? Are novelist any less writers because they make up the characters?

He just did a poor job defining and articulating his gripe about Bono being honest, really poor...

 

[johndarling]

I'm fine with calling it a day, I kinda realized you wouldn't be able to really support anything you said when you couldn't post any specific examples of lyrics...

But don't try to spin this as something I don't understand. You couldn't even give a simple example, and no one is exactly backing you up here...

I hear a lot of the same arguments in here, some valid, some not so much, but I've never heard the Bono isn't an honest lyricist one.

So maybe, just maybe it's you who might be living in an alternate universe where Morrisey is considered an honest straight forward lyricist and Bono is a liar.

Excuse me BVS but tell me, when you listen to Morrissey songs, is the sound on?

And um, yes it is where I am living, no where where anything 'is considered' or 'is thought' or 'it is questioned' or people do say'. It is a place where I think, I consider, I question and I say and I don't pay much (!) attention to people who obviously can't think for themselves and have NO idea what an opinion even is!

 

[johndarling]

I just want to say that Morrisey is probably one of the most unflinchingly honest lyricists ever in pop music. Is he witty and ironic? Yea, sure, but that all stems from a deep insecurity. His humor is his mask. Like he says in I Know It's Over- "If you're so funny...then why are you on your own tonight?" Listen to songs like Pretty Girls Make Graves, Heaven Knows I'm Miserable Now, Accept Yourself, How Soon Is Now?...these songs are direct views into his tortured soul.

He's listened to every song Morrissey has ever written. Honestly no point arguing.

I just had a listen of Morrissey's latest and he's definately back on top form! Amusing, HONEST, always so unrelentingly himself. What a ing character!

 

[Salome]

I stopped listening to Morrissey when he became a pastiche of Morrissey,
honestly

and you did never answer any of BVS's questions
which were posted in clear english so they weren't hard to understand

 

[johndarling]

True, but it begs the question as to what you mean by "honest" lyricist...

Some will find masks to be dishonest. I've been trying to get this poster to define what he means by honest, and he won't.

Does he mean that Bono won't write heart on his sleeve lyrics like Ryan Adams, does he mean that he writes in characters? What does he mean? AND so what? Who says a lyricist has to be honest? Are novelist any less writers because they make up the characters?

He just did a poor job defining and articulating his gripe about Bono being honest, really poor...

RUBBISH!! You didn't say ANY of these things to me. LIAR!!!!

Oh yeah, I'm the one who doesn't know what honest means!

 

[BVS]

RUBBISH!! You didn't say ANY of these things to me. LIAR!!!!

Oh yeah, I'm the one who doesn't know what honest means!

Not only are you rude, but you aren't very bright to say I never asked you these things when everything is documented in this thread. Go back to the posts starting on 4-08-09 and you'll find many times when I ask for examples, clarifications, or even to spell out what you mean... at times you even admitted to not clearly explaining yourself.

and you never did...

 

[johndarling]

I stopped listening to Morrissey when he became a pastiche of Morrissey,
honestly

and you did never answer any of BVS's questions
which were posted in clear english so they weren't hard to understand

I'm under no obligation to respond to just anyone's ignorant interrogation. That isn't really what I am here for. I gave my reasons. And I didn't have to.

We're NOT actually speaking the same language at all. I can tell you're from his part of the universe.

When you say Morrissey became a 'pastiche of himself', what exactly do you mean???

AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH GOD NO!!!!!!!!! Don't answer that!!!!!!!!!! Forget I asked.

 

[johndarling]

Not only are you rude, but you aren't very bright to say I never asked you these things when everything is documented in this thread. Go back to the posts starting on 4-08-09 and you'll find many times when I ask for examples, clarifications, or even to spell out what you mean... at times you even admitted to not clearly explaining yourself.

and you never did...

I would challenge you to go back and take a look at how many personal attacks you have made on me. According to you I am 'rude' (ME!) , not very bright, poor, and I persistantly fail. I don't believe I have said anything of the kind to you other than that you obviously don't understand anything I say so I am not going to bother with you!

I SAID call it a day already, YOU wouldn't let it lie. I won't respond to you again......unless it amuses me.

Thank-you good-night.

 

[BVS]

 

[Diemen]

Quit the bickering, johndarling and BVS.

Learn to let things go once in a while (or better yet, not initiate an argument you know isn't going to go anywhere).

 

[johndarling]

^^Amen!^^

 

[Diemen]

^^Amen!^^

That applies to you just as much as it does to BVS.

 

[shaun vox]

lol's

 

[intedomine]

Morrissey > Everyone

 

[ultraviolet353]

I'm not really into the new album. It's good-ish, but at this point it's going to take a lot to excite me with a new U2 release. Since I've been following them since the late 80s, I've seen them go through peak of popularity, to re-invention, to fall-out in contemporary relevance, to re-emergence in pop culture, and now the new album. I don't hold it against them that I find NLOTH a bit boring and badly written, since it's remarkably exceptional that they've stayed popular and active for this long. (I really consider everything after Pop to be a bonus and to be irrelevant to their legacy, whether I like it or not.) I think what's finally happening now is that U2 has ceased to be about new music -- as, to some extent, have all older artists who've been going for 20 or more years -- and become more about the tour and the "event". As much as they try to fight against that trend, they also encourage it by making everything they do on the biggest, grandest scale possible. Inevitably this makes people more excited about the tour than the new album, even if the album is a corker (which I don't think this one is). And the older they get, the harder it is to generate excitement. I can't see how this album will win over many new fans, so they're really preaching to the converted at this point in the game. That's fine, but if it's so, I don't think they need to go such huge endeavours and monstrously big tours, etc. Personally, I would like them, at this point, to concentrate more on new music and craft and less on being BIG, as I don't think they're going to get anywhere further in that direction. I mean, they are nearly 50 years old.

But anyway, the new album is good, as always, but for me it's overproduced and not melodic enough, and has some oversinging. I quite like "Magnificent", "Unknown Caller", and "White As Snow", but none of them are as good as the three best songs on the two preceding albums, let alone the 80s/early 90s stuff.

Wow--what a great post--agree 100%. Again, it is a good album, but I agree on every point. I really hope they focus more on the music going forward and not pull the 5 year hiatus thing anymore.

 

[Irishteen]

Morrissey's new album is pretty much his second weakest ever, the lyrics aren't even great. Therefore Morrissey shouldn't be used as something that is wrong with NLOTH, Years of Refusal reminds me of the Bomb if anything

 

[johndarling]

^^Amen!^^

And somehow ^^this means I don't know that?v??

That applies to you just as much as it does to BVS.

I get so tired of being treated like an idiot..........or some naughty child.

 

[Diemen]

And somehow ^^this means I don't know that?v??




I get so tired of being treated like an idiot..........or some naughty child.

I suggest you keep certain comments to yourself rather than publicly talk back and roll your eyes at a mod.

 

[johndarling]

I suggest you keep certain comments to yourself rather than publicly talk back and roll your eyes at a mod.

or what? This a power trip 'cause I'm really not in the mood.

 

[Diemen]

Do you not know when to quit??