beli
Blue Crack Addict
nbcrusader said:
I guess the argument before God is: do any of us deserve our lives?
Some of the things you say scare me.
nbcrusader said:
I guess the argument before God is: do any of us deserve our lives?
Dreadsox said:Isn't that what was done?
Isn't the Old Testament God somewhat tainted by the view of the "CHOSEN" people?
Was the plague sent by God to wipe out their enemies?
Dreadsox said:The Puritains believed that God did this to the Native Americans here in MAssachusetts. He "cleared" the land for them so they could settle.
They fashioned their own belief about God.
nbcrusader said:
If you treat the Bible as literature, then you have a strong argument here.
Self-declared divine providence is always a problem.
Dreadsox said:
If he was not the "God" of the Egyptians, how would you expect an Egyptian to convert ....
this may have been the most fantastic statement that has ever been made on these boards! in the words of avalanche play by play man peter mcnabb "THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!"thacraic said:Something I want to point out is this.
Martin Luther, when writing his 95 theses used the Bible as his foundation. Spong pulls from many sources. I think that says something as well.
he was certainly not the God of the egyptians, if only by the fact that they rejected Him. they did not acknowledge the God of the israelites, they refused to worship Him, and they worshipped their own Gods. he was not the "God" of the egyptians, because they didn't want him to be!Dreadsox said:So God changed and became everyones God when?
If he was not the "God" of the Egyptians, how would you expect an Egyptian to convert to Christianity if we believe the Old testament to be correct, that God did horrible things to them?
this is how ex-bishop spong presents himself in his writings. he does more than challenge dogma, he throws out the basic tenents of faith laid out by Christ.Dreadsox said:You have met Bishop Spong? You know him to be an angry bitter man how?
Why? Becasue he dares challenge dogma?
AS I said earlier in the thread, I do not agree with his stance in the area of these twelve things, but dang it all, I am not so stubborn to not recognize there is some truth to his comments.
shrmn8rpoptart said:this is how ex-bishop spong presents himself in his writings. he does more than challenge dogma, he throws out the basic tenents of faith laid out by Christ.
yep. that's what i said. of course he is their creator. he provides the very things for them that make their life possible, and they refuse to acknowledge his existence. they DON"T WANT GOD and in the end, God gives them what they want.Dreadsox said:So God is not your God if you reject him?
If you believe God to be the creator of all, he is indeed their God if they reject him or not.
he's not a bishop anymore...Dreadsox said:
LOL....ex Bishop....um...ok
shrmn8rpoptart said:yep. that's what i said. of course he is their creator. he provides the very things for them that make their life possible, and they refuse to acknowledge his existence. they DON"T WANT GOD and in the end, God gives them what they want.
shrmn8rpoptart said:yep. that's what i said. of course he is their creator. he provides the very things for them that make their life possible, and they refuse to acknowledge his existence. they DON"T WANT GOD and in the end, God gives them what they want.
shrmn8rpoptart said:it says a whole lot! it says that luther realized that God had revealed himself to us in his Word. it says that the changes luther envisioned were changes to bring the church back in line Biblically. he saw that the church had diverted from the Word, and needed to be set back on the right track.
spong on the other hand, sees that the church is out of step with the rest of the world (which it should be!) and consults his own thoughts and feelings, and science (though he only makes broad references to science [read c.s. lewis's miracles, and you'll find he argues that science does not preclude the existence of God]). he basically discounts whatever in the Bible does not fit into his world view, and bends other passages to make them fit. the church should not be conformed to the ways of the world!
here's what Christ says about the relationship of disciples to the world: "if you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. as it is, you do not belong to the world. that is why the world hates you." john 15:19. in john 16:11 Christ calls satan the "prince of the world" and says that he is condemned. obviously it is not desirable for a Christian to conform himself to the ways of the world, its very prince is condemned, as so are all of his subjects. however, if one follows Christ, the world will hate them and persecute them.
deep said:
Could that be why he sent Mohammed?
A more user-friendly faith for the people you speak of.
Dreadsox said:
Isn't that what was done?
Isn't the Old Testament God somewhat tainted by the view of the "CHOSEN" people?
Was the plague sent by God to wipe out their enemies?
The Puritains believed that God did this to the Native Americans here in MAssachusetts. He "cleared" the land for them so they could settle.
They fashioned their own belief about God.
A_Wanderer said:And since that time Islam has done a very good job and driving Christian, Animist, Zoroastrian, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist etc. religious practices out of conquered lands through conversion, dhimmitude and extermination - make no mistake religions have always been a tool of conquest and Islam is up there with the best of them when it comes to fighting for peoples souls. Part of the reason I am very suspicious of religious practices is because they are built on a foundation of control and obedience, something that in my humble opinion can make us indifferent to our own humanity.
indra said:
I agree. But I would take it even further. Isn't believing that the god you worship is "the one true God" the epitome of making god in your own image? That you can't even consider that the gods worshiped by others might be either also "true" gods or the same god under a different guise?
thacraic said:Hope this answered your question?
indra said:
I agree. But I would take it even further. Isn't believing that the god you worship is "the one true God" the epitome of making god in your own image? That you can't even consider that the gods worshiped by others might be either also "true" gods or the same god under a different guise?
thacraic said:
Hiya indra,
If that were the case then God would not have said in the Ten Commandments not to put any other God's before Him and Jesus never would I have said " I am the way, the truth and the life, no one come to the Father except through me." Jesus didn't say I am A way, A truth, A life... He said THE.... using a very definitve article.
So that leads to ask, what are we to do? Discount what God says in regards to Himself so we can accomodate everyone's views? That is at the core of realtivism.
Take care,
Carrie