Random Movie Talk Twelve (no, not that horrid Schumacher movie)

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You and me both brother, I like far too many things to really pick a favorite, but I always say if someone put a gun to my head and made me choose, it'd be that movie.
 
Reposting this here, since not everyone goes in Lance's Upcoming Films thread:

Let us talk of how glorious The Amazing Spider-Man trailer is, this is the real Peter Parker/Spidey, if it weren't for the well done drama of Spider-Man 2 I'd say in my mind Raimi's films never happened. For someone who claimed to be such a huge fan of Spidey growing up he missed the point of the character all along. He was too busy bringing his camp feel to the Marvel world. Not just the feel of the character, but the look and phsyicality, all of which is rectified here. This is the most convincing translation of a superhero from comic to live action I've ever seen. It also does a nice mashup of classic Spider-Man and Ultimate Spider-Man elements to modernize the proceedings.

What this rectifies:
-Peter Parker isn't just a nerd, he's actually a science genius.
-He doesn't become jacked as Spider-Man, he looks much the same as he did, lanky/wiry, but far stronger than he appears, like, you know, a spider.
-He's a cocky smartass when he's safe behind the mask.
-His movements and postures when swinging and fighting, how quick and agile he is, down to the way he has to propel himself forward by pulling back on each strand.
-The fun of Spider-Man and a lot of what drew so many fans is how much of his story takes place with him having to also be a regular teenager, Raimi's films ended high school like 30 minutes in, and never actually evoked a realistic feeling of that time in kids' lives. We haven't seen a lot of the teenage character's interactions so who knows if they pull it off here, but at least the whole thing takes place with him in high school.
-They made the suit look more like something someone could actually make themselves, down to the fact that his boots are clearly track spikes.

It obviously helps them get the movements right by using physical stunts for the web-slinging and fighting scenes rather than relying on CGI.

I like many members of the cast of Raimi's films, but most of them didn't fit in those characters. Maguire did fine with what they gave him, but angsty teenager is a lot more believable and relatable than whiny goody too shoes. This cast so far seems to inhabit the roles, and is just stacked with great actors.

It remains to be seen of course if Webb can pull of the storytelling, but all indications point to yes.

Also, I guess they rounded a lot of movie bloggers up and showed them the preview in its native 3D form and did a Q&A with Webb. Word is this completely ramps up 3D filmmaking and blows Avatar out of the water.
 
powerhour is on a streak right now of some of the singularly nerdiest posts spread across multiple threads ever (including one questionable bonus post regarding his favorite film).

with all the love in the world :hug:
 
Creepy as hell, it might actually be Hitch's creepiest film for me.
Frenzy is entertaining, but it's a bit of an ugly film. Visually as well as Hitch's attempt to up the sex and violence in an attempt to compete with current trends. As far as creepy goes, The Birds creates a much more disturbing atmosphere, and its lack of any explanation for its story only enhances this.

Family Plot, his next and final film, is a lot more rewarding and one of his true underrated (and underseen works).
 
Also

Vertigo
Rear Window
Notorious
Shadow of a Doubt
North by Northwest
Marnie
Under Capricorn
The Birds
The 39 Steps
Strangers on a Train
 
It's really hard to rank Hitch, I find, since his masterworks all tend to display at least somewhat variable strengths which could easily put each one over the top of another. But:

North by Northwest
Psycho
Vertigo
Rope
Shadow of a Doubt
The Birds
Rear Window
Strangers on a Train
Marnie
 
Frenzy is entertaining, but it's a bit of an ugly film. Visually as well as Hitch's attempt to up the sex and violence in an attempt to compete with current trends. As far as creepy goes, The Birds creates a much more disturbing atmosphere, and its lack of any explanation for its story only enhances this.

Family Plot, his next and final film, is a lot more rewarding and one of his true underrated (and underseen works).

I don't know, The Birds is always in the 'B' movie category for me, and the lack of explanation is a part of the reason why. I'll agree with you on Family Plot, and as I said Frenzy is far from perfect, I just think it fits more in the underrated category than Marnie. That said there's lots of underrated films from him. Hell, Foreign Correspondent's a pretty great flick, was even a Best Picture nominee and no one ever brings it up. That's how deep his career was. Of course it was nominated alongside the winner that was also directed by him, so that also has something to do with it.
 
powerhour is on a streak right now of some of the singularly nerdiest posts spread across multiple threads ever (including one questionable bonus post regarding his favorite film).

with all the love in the world :hug:

:lol: Yeah I have been pretty nerdy, what can I say, much as I love film as art, I also never grow out of really great popcorn entertainment, and I love Spider-Man to death so I'm super excited to see him done right. And yeah Shawshank's probably my most rewatchable movie, such a great ending.

Though if you were a Community fanatic thread-goer, you'd see how much of a nerd I am weekly. If you don't already watch it you should, given all the meta film conceits & homages built into an already excellent comedy.


:hi5: on the inclusion of Shadow of a Doubt as well.
 
Have you seen Capricorn yet? It's public domain so sadly no good prints out there, but Jack Cardiff color photograph and Hitch doing some great stuff w long takes that's pretty unique compared to the rest of his work. Also Ingrid Bergman is fantastic.

Much maligned at the time but has a passionate fan club.
 
I'm ashamed to say I haven't, :reject:. I've only seen probably half of the public domain films in his filmography for that very reason, most of the ones I've watched are just so shot to hell it takes away from them. I'll look for it on your recommendation though.
 
But I am a huge fan of his, Cardiff and Ingrid Bergman, so I am all the same. :wink:
 
That sounds like something I'd really enjoy at the very least. I'll be sure to check it out.
 
I don't know, The Birds is always in the 'B' movie category for me, and the lack of explanation is a part of the reason why.

Pretty much this. I got pretty visibly angry in my Hitchcock class in school when the attempt was made to have a analytical discussion about this film. To me, it's a horror movie. Nothing more, nothing less. I think I've said this before, though, so I'll be done.

1) Strangers on a Train
2) North By Northwest
3) Psycho
4) The Lady Vanishes
5) Notorious
6) Rear Window
7) Foreign Corespondent
8) Shadow of a Doubt
9) Rope
10) The 39 Steps

This is the same list I posted last January. I don't think much has changed.
 
Well you said you got angry when people were trying to analyze the film. That sounds pretty stubborn. This is a film that many respected, intelligent critics have been writing about for a while.

Just one capsule example, Dave Kehr, formerly of the Chicago Reader:

Alfred Hitchcock's most abstract film (1963), and perhaps his subtlest, still yielding new meanings and inflections after a dozen or more viewings. As emblems of sexual tension, divine retribution, meaningless chaos, metaphysical inversion, and aching human guilt, his attacking birds acquire a metaphorical complexity and slipperiness worthy of Melville.

Or from Wiki:

Humanities scholar Camille Paglia has devoted a book to The Birds as part of the BFI Film Classics series.[10] She interprets the film as an ode to the many facets of female sexuality and, by extension, nature itself. She notes that women play pivotal roles in The Birds. Mitch is defined by his relationships with his mother, sister and ex-lover -- a careful balance which is disrupted by his attraction to the beautiful Melanie.
 
Ah, Family Plot! I've heard it's underrated before so I will try and check it out. I agree about the rather drab aesthetic of Frenzy, but the one shot I Iove unreasonably is the one where the killer invites the woman into his apartment, but the camera stays in the stairway then slowly pulls back out into the bustle of the city street. Such a beautifully mundane shot implying something terrible.
 
Well you said you got angry when people were trying to analyze the film. That sounds pretty stubborn. This is a film that many respected, intelligent critics have been writing about for a while.

Fair enough, I was a little drunk when I wrote that post, and was a bit black and white, but, I do, personally think that the analysis is always reaching. I don't feel that way about every one of his movies, just this one. But anyways...
 
Cause I feel that way about one movie?

Heh, I can excuse a degree of drunken posting, but honestly kind of yes. It's such a shitty attitude to have for any film, to get mad in a class because people want to discuss a film? Even if it's not a particularly rich film, there's always something to discuss or analyze, and your dismissal as "just a horror film" implies a prejudice of some sort or at least a failing to accept the historical and artistic depths of fiction genre and all the particular decisions, both thematically and formally that go into making even the most basic horror film or whatever genre. Not to mention The Birds in particular is one of the more rewarding films of it's type ever.
 
I'm going to tip more towards her camp. Not to say there's never anything to analyze about media, but typically I eschew that for two things: what it evokes in me & what it says about its creators/or what are they trying to say on a perceptive level. Not academia sitting around ferreting out "new lenses of analysis". I don't know how many times I've had to grit my teeth listening to people drone on about things that just do not exist in a work, are anachronistic to the work being discussed or if they knew one iota about the people responsible they'd recognize that what they think the artist is trying to say is bull.

Now this attitude has a lot more to do with literature analysis, there certainly is merit in looking at the craftsmanship in film and music production and writing, but the line between meritorious discussion and the academic circle jerk projecting I'm talking about blurs far too often in the classes I took of the type. Take it too far and you not only suck the enjoyment out of works of art, but you can also dismiss what that piece of art actually evoked in you to listen to a prescribed critique. If you're trying to learn from someone's work that's one thing, if you're trying to learn from criticism so that one can be a rounded critic as well, to me there's no point. Argue with me if you want, but I personally don't enjoy reading about filmmaking from people who've never picked up a camera, or about songwriting from people who don't write lyrics or compose music. Just because you're well versed in a medium, doesn't mean you understand art. You see the forms, you see the beats they hit, but you're not taking it in for you, you're taking it in for the sake of projecting your opinion as something grand and important.

What we do here, bantering back and forth with each other, based on what we've seen, where we're coming from, pointing to the things that inspire us and encouraging each other to check out this or that, all that is well and good and enjoyable. But to have your job be to take apart what is personal, and real art is personal, and say what should have been done, and influence people who'll suck you up as definitive? No thanks, I hate that kind of thing. Analysis to a degree for learning, personal edification of a medium even if you don't seek to engage in the act yourself, and discussion amongst peers is done with good reason or it's enjoyable. Lay-criticism is egotistical and a useless profession.
 
There's a whole lot in there I disagree with and a bit I happen to agree with, but don't have a real computer here to really get into it. Just enough to say what the artist is trying to say, in most media but film in particular, is kind of irrelevant once out of the artists hands. Any work of art exists divorced from whatever intentions or inclinations of it's creator lest what's there on the screen or the page or what have you. Really any ridiculous depth of readin or varied interpretation is valuable and valid if the person can make a case relating to the work itself and it's that which gives discussion it's pleasure and worth. Really any of this pseudo anti-intellectualism or defense of the purity of the artist or the act of creation is more harmful than anything else.
 
I knew full well this would bring us back head to head :lol:.

See I didn't limit my acceptance of interpretation to the artist's intentions alone, but it's patently false to say that those intentions go out the window once something is completed. My other big defense of interpretation was in what something means to you as someone partaking in that piece of art, which to me is enhanced by authenticity of the voice creating it. For instance, I believe and relate to a book like This Side of Paradise or most of Fitzgerald's books over say things like the latest book club lit, because you know the author experienced events or elements in life that are brought to life in the book. Or how I went in to The Tree of Life and saw so much of the filmmaker's life, opinions, existential troubles, and faith played out on the screen. It was powerful to see what Malick was able to evoke, but it meant even more to me because of my own feelings towards faith and my relationship with my father.

I'm not saying there isn't validity in what someone else can see or feels as a result of something, but I am denying the importance of projecting things that aren't there and making criticism a career as someone who doesn't practice whatever art it is he writes about. There is a line, you do make your point well to say that as long as they make their case it has validity, my biggest railing was against self-inflated indulgence, which absolutely does happen. Hell, we have people who spend their entire lives writing dissertations of the most flimsy pieces of media out there and get paid to do it. What does that contribute to humanity?

Yes, there can always be something more seen and contributed to a conversation about interpretations, but that is different from the career of criticism, that's more in line with discussion as I said. And to say that there isn't a loss of authenticity or attachment in experiencing something when done through the lens of analysis of form or following hearing someone else's interpretation of something is ludicrous. Now, if you go back and watch something following discussion or a new idea being brought to you, or with an analysis of form that's one thing. But when people go into viewing or reading something having first been spoonfed someone else's ideas? You'll never have that pure reaction to something. Look, I've been able to see things with more sophistication following a discussion with someone before, but there's also films that I have never discussed with someone else to a great degree that I gain more and more from purely from what I happen to latch onto at the moment or what I've gone through since having seen it. I get a lot more personal satisfaction out of understanding something in a new light that came from me.

I don't deny the place of analysis, I deny criticism's principal importance over personal reaction and yes, in a lot of cases intentions of the creators (but no, not that exclusively, and with film there are very few filmmakers who put so much of themselves onto the screen or have that much control over the process where this part factors in as much as it does to me with a songwriter). Music's kind of different, a performer can put a lot of their own emotion into a powerful rendition of what was created as an empty pop song, but to me there's nothing more powerful than the perfect storm of the lyricist's true emotion coming out in the poetry of their lyrics, the melody of their song and the inflection of their performance. That's probably the biggest reason I'm a U2 fan actually.
 
Another thing is not just the artist's intentions per se, but recognizing the patterns they create in their themes, use of form, characters, palettes, etc., whether conscious or unconscious on their part, those things are also really interesting to me in terms of analysis.


Anyway, g'night, I really didn't sleep well at all after midnight with The Avengers, got like 2 poor hours of sleep and lots of work to get done in the morning. I have had fun coming out of hiding today, but this place is such a vice & a time suck for me. I can never balance, I you know just occasionally contributing, I either disappear for a long time or I spend way too much time here.
 
Yikes. There's a lot you hit on there, most of to which I'm practically diametrically opposed, and some of it I feel similarly to only from a somewhat different perspective. Regardless I don't really have the means to respond to all your points in any length right now, but I'll try to come back to it another time maybe.

But to bring it back to earlier discussion, I actually watched Under Capricorn tonight and was thoroughly blown away. No idea Hitch had a film quite like this in his oeuvre, and it's maybe the one film of his that most fully fits my personal tastes. Top 5 of his for me, likely.
 
Heh, I can excuse a degree of drunken posting, but honestly kind of yes. It's such a shitty attitude to have for any film, to get mad in a class because people want to discuss a film? Even if it's not a particularly rich film, there's always something to discuss or analyze, and your dismissal as "just a horror film" implies a prejudice of some sort or at least a failing to accept the historical and artistic depths of fiction genre and all the particular decisions, both thematically and formally that go into making even the most basic horror film or whatever genre. Not to mention The Birds in particular is one of the more rewarding films of it's type ever.

Like I said, a drunken post is not the best, I over-exaggerated greatly. I didn't get mad, what happened was more like, I was just exhausted by the class in general by the time we got to The Birds (it was the last movie we watched), and when it came time to analyze the film, I kind of just was at a loss because I just don't feel like that movie has anywhere near the layers that some of his other works have.
 
I'm a huge sucker for long takes, especially roaming intuitive ones like that, and the film was seriously full of them. Initially it felt like the original earnest version of the sort of things Resnais was playing with in Melo. And by the end it reminded me of Ruiz in certain ways.
 
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