Disney now gives us a black princess

[INDY500]

I wouldn't go so far is to say that Japan now reflects "western" culture.

Well, they don't have a Western history, and granted they have many (often wonderful) non-Western traditions. But each generation will see further homogenization I think it's safe to predict.
It's an "and/or" list.

I'd also add that Western culture hardly needs "defending." It's hardly under threat of annihilation. If anything it is more powerful, influential, and pervasive than ever. Which I'm not saying is a bad--or good--thing. It just is.

I agree, we flood the world with our culture. We are by far richer. But, externally, other world-views (not compatible with modern Western society) exist, and are gaining acceptance. Internally, multi-culturalism (when it teaches the moral equivalency of cultures) threatens to slow assimilation.

and I would also agree that is the definition used by "sane" people, but that's not what Aeon was implying.

Implying that Aeon is "not sane?"

 

[maycocksean]

Well, they don't have a Western history, and granted they have many (often wonderful) non-Western traditions. But each generation will see further homogenization I think it's safe to predict.

That's if the multi-culti crowd is stopped, right?

I agree, we flood the world with our culture. We are by far richer. But, externally, other world-views (not compatible with modern Western society) exist, and are gaining acceptance. Internally, multi-culturalism (when it teaches the moral equivalency of cultures) threatens to slow assimilation.

It's interesting to note that you feel that the homegenization of world cultures via a gradual assimilation of Western culture is a good thing, a goal worth of striving for and things that interfere with that progression should be cause for concern. Am I reading you right on this?

If so, then how far would you take this belief? What are you thoughts on some of the colonialist and imperialist behaviors and attitudes of the 19th century?

As far as the concept of "preserving" culture per se (whether the behemoth that is Western culture or the soon-to-be extinct--according to you--Japanese culture) I guess I'm a bit ambivalent. Culture by it's very nature is constantly in flux and the idea that any culture can be preserved in it's "pure" form is really an illusion. For example, what we might refer to as "Hispanic" or "Latino" culture, at leat in this hemisphere didn't even exist 500 years ago. And let's think about Western culture. . .a lot of people are sure Western civ is under attack when we talk about bilinguilism etc. But what IS the language of Western culture? I'd suggest at one time it was Greek, then Latin, then for awhile a three way split between say English-Spanish-French, and now English seems to the dominant language of Western culture. Whose to say it may not change yet again.

Usually people who get overly concerned with preserving the purity of the culture (whether a majority or minority culture) end up doing some pretty sick things.

Implying that Aeon is "not sane?"

I was just agreeing with you! You (and he) will have to draw your own conclusions. Usually I can respect where Aeon is coming from even if I disagree. I'm having a harder time doing that on this topic, maybe because it's more personal to me.

 

[Vincent Vega]

I agree, we flood the world with our culture. We are by far richer. But, externally, other world-views (not compatible with modern Western society) exist, and are gaining acceptance. Internally, multi-culturalism (when it teaches the moral equivalency of cultures) threatens to slow assimilation.

So, Western civilization and culture may spread and be assimilated by everywhone, but God help us if this also went the other way round?

 

[sulawesigirl4]

Just popping in before I head out to my conference, and yes, Indy...sean pretty much clarified what I meant. I'm all for Western Civ (heck, I almost wanted to be a history major in college) but the context in which the word was being used was what threw up a flag for me. Sorry if I wasn't more clear. And now I must head out to the pantheon of American civilization (or lack thereof) Washington D.C. Wish me luck.

 

[AEON]

Usually I can respect where Aeon is coming from even if I disagree. I'm having a harder time doing that on this topic, maybe because it's more personal to me.

Perhaps I am insane. After all, I did rejoin the National Guard in March 2003!

I can understand why this issue is personal to you. As a matter of fact, I think the issue of race is more often emotional than it is rational.

I especially agreed with your MTV comments. And I agree with the warnings that Bill Cosby has been sending out regarding hip-hop culture.

I can be a bit defensive about Western Civ. When I was at the University of Arizona, not exactly a liberal college but certainly not conservative (no public school is), I found that Western Civ was always attacked - and never defended or even discussed in a balanced manner. When I pointed out to a professor (in an American Sociology class) in response to her rant about the horror of the Crusades that the Muslims almost conquered Europe well before the Crusades - she literally flipped out and screamed at me for being a Newt Gingrich clone. She eventually conceded that perhaps we’d all have been better off if the Muslims had conquered Europe.

I hear from the younger folks at my work and in the military that professors are worse today than they were back in my college days. There simply is no place for opposing views to these ultra-liberal propagandists.

That being said, when I took a class named "Homer: the Iliad and the Odyssey" I was originally excited to take an upper division class focused on two of the greatest books in Western Civilization. However, about halfway through the class, we were forced to read and write essays on African poetry which the teacher considered "just as beautiful and important." Needless to say - the poetry was pure crap. But that wasn't my problem with the class. My problem was that I signed up to take Homer. If I wanted to study African poetry, I would sign up for it.

Yes, I am white. I am both sorry and proud of my heritage. I celebrate the good white characters in movies and hiss at the evil white characters. If you don’t like the way your race is represented – then do something about it. You can 1) make a movie that says something different and 2) stop feeding the monster with your money.

 

[Ormus]

I hear from the younger folks at my work and in the military that professors are worse today than they were back in my college days. There simply is no place for opposing views to these ultra-liberal propagandists.

I won't lie in that I wanted to avoid these kinds of professors like the plague, and I was fortunate to do so being part of Michigan State University's Honors College. I found that pretty much all these shrill, idiotic professors were part of the core curriculum; but, as a benefit to being in the Honors College, we were able to substitute the generic, core curriculum with courses from the main university (i.e., rather than taking a "core" history class, you could take a history class from the history department).

As a result of having substituted out all the core curriculum with "real courses," I was able avoid all those "propagandists." I feel bad for my sister, though, who goes to a different university. She's had more than one shrill propagandist during her time; and, as expected, they're all in her core curriculum, not her major studies.

Perhaps the question worth asking is why universities think so little of their core courses that they have to hire idiots, for the most part?

 

[BVS]

Perhaps I am insane.

I can understand why this issue is personal to you. As a matter of fact, I think the issue of race is more often emotional than it is rational.

More emotional than rational? The bubble you live in is getting smaller and smaller the more you talk. Unbelievable.

I can be a bit defensive about Western Civ. When I was at the University of Arizona, not exactly a liberal college but certainly not conservative (no public school is)

You obviously didn't go to school where I did.

However, about halfway through the class, we were forced to read and write essays on African poetry which the teacher considered "just as beautiful and important." Needless to say - the poetry was pure crap.

You don't even realize how racist you're being.

If you don’t like the way your race is represented – then do something about it. You can 1) make a movie that says something different and 2) stop feeding the monster with your money.

And now you come back to the ridiculous stance that already got ripped to shreds. What an embarrasment.

 

[yolland]

I still haven't seen an explanation of how wanting more/more positive representations of racial minorities in the media constitutes a hateful attack on Western civilization.

 

[Irvine511]

If you think "Western Civilization" is "code" and not something worth intellectually defending...you either live in Manhattan or Hollywood...or you need to travel more.

and if you think George Bush is a good president, you live in East Buttfuck, Texas?

can you stop with the regionalism? you make good points but always seem to debase them with cheap, easy, Hannity/Coulter asides at "Hollyweird" types or (gay/jewish) New Yorkers.

anyway ... those who say they only see a hero, and not Denzel's race, when they watch a movie clearly have never had to worry about about their own race.

i'll point to a good example of this -- i've spoken of my best friend in here, she's Indian. i never think of her as Indian in any sort of meaningful sense, she's just my friend, but something struck me when we were in college. she had just watched "The English Patient" and loved it, and not just for the beautiful story, gorgeous cinematography, and Ralph Fiennes withering/sexy looks. but because there was an Indian character in it. Kip. and he got to have sex! in a movie! an Indian character having sex!

 

[AEON]

I still haven't seen an explanation of how wanting more/more positive representations of racial minorities in the media constitutes a hateful attack on Western civilization.

I wasn't exactly making a one for one correlation. I was simply implying that that there is a trend of ripping Western Civilization and in some instances replacing it with inferior quality simply because it is "something else." I am all for a positive role model, despite the color of the role models skin.

And I don't see how my dislike of African Poetry in my Greek Literature class is racist. As a matter of fact, I think it is racist and short-minded to imply such a thing. How happy do you suppose the students in an African Literature class would be if the professor decided to spend half the class focused on the fictional books by Newt Gingrich?

 

[AEON]

there was an Indian character in it. Kip. and he got to have sex! in a movie! an Indian character having sex!

Was that Sayed from LOST? He's one of my favorite characters on the show - and he a former Iraqi Soldier! (the character is). Why? Because of who he is on the show and NOT because I feel like I need to like a certain percentage of Iraqis to consider myself multi-cultural.

And no, I don't worry about my race. I wish others would do the same.

 

[AEON]

I won't lie in that I wanted to avoid these kinds of professors like the plague, and I was fortunate to do so being part of Michigan State University's Honors College. I found that pretty much all these shrill, idiotic professors were part of the core curriculum; but, as a benefit to being in the Honors College, we were able to substitute the generic, core curriculum with courses from the main university (i.e., rather than taking a "core" history class, you could take a history class from the history department).

As a result of having substituted out all the core curriculum with "real courses," I was able avoid all those "propagandists." I feel bad for my sister, though, who goes to a different university. She's had more than one shrill propagandist during her time; and, as expected, they're all in her core curriculum, not her major studies.

Perhaps the question worth asking is why universities think so little of their core courses that they have to hire idiots, for the most part?

I had shrill propagandists in both my core and and in my major studies. The Homer class I was referring to was a 400 level class (fourth year class). It was actually less pronounced in my core classes because there was only time for Death by Powerpoint.

Ironically, a friend of mine that just graduated from UC Berkely of all places said that most of the teachers he had were very quiet about their personal politics. Of course, he wasn't signing up for Women's Studies courses, but he is a PhD candidate for Urban Planning...

I suppose that college teaching as a profession generally attracts those inclined to liberal activism.

 

[anitram]

I found that pretty much all these shrill, idiotic professors were part of the core curriculum;

What's a core curriculum?

The best professor I have at law school is a very distinguished guy (really, world renowned) who is absolutely set in his ways and extremely opinionated and preachy on every subject. But his philosophy is also "make me an argument" and you are never penalized for disagreeing.

A shrill professor is only a bad professor when they shut down your ability to participate in critical thinking. Otherwise, I absolutely don't mind them expressing their views, whether I agree or not. Most of them, if they are good, have reached them after some intellectual debate and consideration and I can respect that.

 

[BVS]

And I don't see how my dislike of African Poetry in my Greek Literature class is racist. As a matter of fact, I think it is racist and short-minded to imply such a thing.

It's the fact that you said "needless to say" as if it's a given that African poetry = crap.

You say "needless to say" when something is a given, when it's fact.

So yeah, it's racist. No implying needed.

 

[BVS]

I suppose that college teaching as a profession generally attracts those inclined to liberal activism.

Actually it attracts those who are more educated. You can make your own deductions from that.

 

[Irvine511]

Was that Sayed from LOST? He's one of my favorite characters on the show - and he a former Iraqi Soldier! (the character is). Why? Because of who he is on the show and NOT because I feel like I need to like a certain percentage of Iraqis to consider myself multi-cultural.

And no, I don't worry about my race. I wish others would do the same.

yes, that's the same actor.

the reson you don't worry about your race is because you don't have to worry about your race. it's not something you ever have to think about in practical terms. it's not a source of identity in the way that it is for a minority person. and it doesn't matter what people *should* do; what matters is the fact that society forces you to account for your race when you are in the minority so that it becomes every bit as much a category of identification as, say, "Christian" might be to you.

none of this is good or bad, but please don't think that race doesn't matter simply because it doesn't matter to you.

 

[Vincent Vega]

And I don't see how my dislike of African Poetry in my Greek Literature class is racist.

Needless to say - the poetry was pure crap.

Maybe?

 

[redhotswami]

I suppose that college teaching as a profession generally attracts those inclined to liberal activism.

Are you kidding me? From where did you pull that conclusion??

 

[trevster2k]

Was that Sayed from LOST? He's one of my favorite characters on the show - and he a former Iraqi Soldier! (the character is). Why? Because of who he is on the show and NOT because I feel like I need to like a certain percentage of Iraqis to consider myself multi-cultural.

And no, I don't worry about my race. I wish others would do the same.

You obviously worry about your race with your statements referring to attacks on Western civilization. You are part of the majority, yet you refuse to show any understanding of what it's like for someone else. To reiterate, this isn't about you. This is about the effects of the portrayal of a homogeneous society in the media upon children and people of minority background. If your view was correct, we would still have the negro leagues cause that's what black people did back then. They weren't represented in baseball so they went and formed their own league.

Oh, and the racist remark, Irvine alluded to? "Needless to say, the poetry was pure crap" in reference to African poetry. "Needless to say"? That is an interesting way of phrasing your dislike for the poems.



I give up.

 

[Vincent Vega]

If you don’t like the way your race is represented – then do something about it. You can 1) make a movie that says something different and 2) stop feeding the monster with your money.

Yes, like Disney is doing now.

You are again so self focused on your post, and don't even try to get what the article is about, or what the posts by Mia or Trevster are about.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

I think this thread is more than enough proof of why we need Disney black princesses.

 

[BVS]

I think this thread is more than enough proof of why we need Disney black princesses.

Yes.

It's proof of much more, but I'll keep quiet.

 

[INDY500]

It's interesting to note that you feel that the homegenization of world cultures via a gradual assimilation of Western culture is a good thing, a goal worth of striving for and things that interfere with that progression should be cause for concern. Am I reading you right on this?

The West can be defined many ways. By western thought; our democracy, free-markets, capitalism, free press, scientific skepticism--then yes, I'd like to see that spread around the world. By Western culture; our music, languages, etc--I'd like to see that go both ways. Think the Beetles. They spread rock n roll (and Western culture) around the world while incorporating newly discovered (non-Western) philosophies and music into their music.

If so, then how far would you take this belief? What are you thoughts on some of the colonialist and imperialist behaviors and attitudes of the 19th century?

That brings up an interesting point. While we can agree that information technology, ease of travel, global trade and corporatization have "shrunk the world." If westernization is a verb, so is Balkanization. We also see many areas going the other way into fragmentization, isolation or erupting into civil war/genocide.
You could argue that countries are better off today (higher standard of living, better educated) for their time under Imperialistic rule or because of colonization, yet also argue that national sovereignty is more important in the end.

You sound like you travel a lot. I'm torn, on one hand I think it's inevitable that slowly the world will continue trending towards sounding and looking alike as peoples and cultures blend. Being better to happen naturally and not as the result of invasion as these things have happened in the past. However, it's nice to travel and experience different foods, and customs and such. Diversity can be a very good thing.

 

[INDY500]

and if you think George Bush is a good president, you live in East Buttfuck, Texas?

can you stop with the regionalism? you make good points but always seem to debase them with cheap, easy, Hannity/Coulter asides at "Hollyweird" types or (gay/jewish) New Yorkers.

Well, never mind that they* refer to Indiana as "Jesusland" or "fly-over country." I've come to put those "cheap, easy asides" in just for you.

*they. Hollywood liberals, mainstream media elites and academia pinheads.

 

[Irvine511]

Well, never mind that they* refer to Indiana as "Jesusland" or "fly-over country." I've come to put those "cheap, easy asides" in just for you.

*they. Hollywood liberals, mainstream media elites and academia pinheads.

yes, most of my professors in college refered to Indiana as "Jesusland."

let's let a single t-shirt do the talking.

 

[AEON]

Are you kidding me? From where did you pull that conclusion??

I wonder. Have you stepped in on a class in the USA? Even the JC's are getting in on the action.

 

[BVS]

I wonder. Have you stepped in on a class in the USA? Even the JC's are getting in on the action.

Your observations crack me up. How many different campuses have you actually attended to come up with this sweeping generalization?

 

[Irvine511]

I wonder. Have you stepped in on a class in the USA? Even the JC's are getting in on the action.

i went to college, and while i would agree that most professors are socially liberal -- though many economics professors are fiscially conservative -- that doesn't mean that their classes are mini-indoctrination sessions (as opposed to, say, the classes at Liberty University or Oral Roberts or Bob Jones).

it's like the media. yes, most people in academia, like the media, think racism is bad, they think women deserve equal work for equal pay, they think homophobia is bad, they think women are more than baby machines, they value diversity and respect for other cultures, they believe in the separation of church and state, they aren't concerned with one r eligion being "true," etc.

things like that. what that does NOT translate into is, firstly, support for the Democrats, or any specific political agenda, and secondly, that their classrooms are a soapbox. are some professors egotistical blowhards and think their political opinions are more informed than anyone else and want to share this in class? absolutley. this this common? no.

and as with the media, the Right seems to think that because they have certain colleges (the aforementioned) working to advance their specific agenda, the Left must as well. it doesn't. just like the Right thinks that because they have certain media outlets shilling for them (Washington Times, Fox News) then the Left does as well. they don't.

 

[BVS]

Very well said, Irvine.

 

[Vincent Vega]

Just one question: What are the JC's?