Songs of Ascent - Part II

[U2girl]

Eno pushed for Winter on NLOTH and MOS to be the lead single.

Yeah...he isn't always right.

(I don't think they changed that much since the original song order for NLOTH, as seen in Linear, only differs from the official version with Crazy... taking out Winter)

 

[nirniva]

First week in March, lock it in

I'm going to agree with this and add that we'll probably see the first leak thread in mid-February or so.


I miss leak threads.

EDIT: Wait, Eno wanted MOS to be the lead single? How would that have worked? They'd either have to have cut it down to less than half its normal running time or get pretty much no airplay whatsoever.

 

[mikal]

i'm not going to commit to a certain month in 2010 until i hear more comments from the band that this will be a sure thing. yes, it has more concrete than a lot of their earlier claims have had, but i still need more.

 

[lazarus]

Eno pushed for Winter on NLOTH and MOS to be the lead single.

Yeah...he isn't always right.

(I don't think they changed that much since the original song order for NLOTH, as seen in Linear, only differs from the official version with Crazy... taking out Winter)

I think Beano was right on both counts. While the one from the film isn't some kind of masterpiece, I think a completed version would still be better than the song they replaced it with, not to mention that other misfire in the middle of the album.

And while I applaud the band releasing a fun and semi-experimental rocker as the first single, it proved to be very divisive, arguably having a negative effect on the album sales. Perhaps MOS would have made a bigger (and better) impact simply because it's not an obvious single? There's no denying it's proved to be a very powerful recording, and I don't think it's impossible that it could have really lured people in.

 

[LemonMelon]

Ultraviolent? Is that like Bullet with a really long shred solo?

It's a leftover from the Clockwork Orange musical.

 

[U2girl]

I think Beano was right on both counts. While the one from the film isn't some kind of masterpiece, I think a completed version would still be better than the song they replaced it with, not to mention that other misfire in the middle of the album.

And while I applaud the band releasing a fun and semi-experimental rocker as the first single, it proved to be very divisive, arguably having a negative effect on the album sales. Perhaps MOS would have made a bigger (and better) impact simply because it's not an obvious single? There's no denying it's proved to be a very powerful recording, and I don't think it's impossible that it could have really lured people in.

Well, I guess we'll know when we hear the fully developed Winter (assuming the early version in Linear is all we'll ever hear about that song). I enjoy the chorus of Winter, but the song right now to me comes off as a poor attempt of a UF era U2 re-write. Plus the band would never hear the end of "they're ripping of Colplday" with that string intro.

I used to go along with the "MOS for the single" attitude, but I just can't see the radio today playing a full 7+ minute of it (even if it's U2). Either they would cut massive amounts off it, or flatly ignore it.

edit: speaking of singles, I don't know what else they could try. They tried the electro-rocker Boots and it failed (too reminiscent of Vertigo perhaps). Classic-sounding Magnificent failed. Poppy Crazy did better, but still nothing spectacular. And if those two didn't do it, why should Breathe ?
U2-tries-the-chilli-peppers-sound SUC might be what the US radio is looking for in U2.

 

[lazarus]

Well, it could be argued that once you lose people with the first single, it's harder to get them back. Perhaps if Magnificock had come out first, it would have worked better. And maybe the band could have taken a big stand on MOS and refused to cut it, Hey Jude-style?

As for Winner, I agree with your criticisms. I just feel there's at least SOMETHING there that could be turned into a great track, and it at least fits better with the sonics and roughly conceptual narrative on the album than the forced singles they stuck on there instead.

 

[U2girl]

I know they did the "first track on the album/first single" thing with Pop/ATYCLB/Bomb, but why did they not start the singles with NLOTH ?
Yes, the riff is kind of The Fly-ish, but the song still feels fresh enough to signalise a different record compared to the other two 00's albums. Yet it's still accessible enough to work on the radio.

 

[digitize]

MOS should have been the lead single. At least it would have surprised people. They then should have released Crazy two weeks later, at the same time as the album.

 

[Niceman]

MOS should have been the lead single. At least it would have surprised people. They then should have released Crazy two weeks later, at the same time as the album.

This is exactly what they should have done. Except I would have used NLOTH as the second single with the album, and then Crazy as the third.

 

[lazarus]

I know they did the "first track on the album/first single" thing with Pop/ATYCLB/Bomb, but why did they not start the singles with NLOTH ?
Yes, the riff is kind of The Fly-ish, but the song still feels fresh enough to signalise a different record compared to the other two 00's albums. Yet it's still accessible enough to work on the radio.

Maybe, though the alternate mix would work better as a single. Of course, they couldn't release a different version from what was actually on the album.

 

[dan_smee]

Magnificock

cleverest joke name ever

 

[digitize]

This is exactly what they should have done. Except I would have used NLOTH as the second single with the album, and then Crazy as the third.

I think NLOTH would have worked better as a third single, but either way would have been great with me.

I do know that, in general, non-U2 fans who listen to Crazy generally end up really liking the song.

 

[Niceman]

I think NLOTH would have worked better as a third single, but either way would have been great with me.

I do know that, in general, non-U2 fans who listen to Crazy generally end up really liking the song.

I've been surprised how much more and more I am appreciating the song. It really is brilliant!

But I have been thinking more and more that single #2 the same week as the album is the smart way to manage the releases...

 

[mirrorballman12]

NLOTH is one of my favorite song on the album.

 

[Screwtape2]

Well, I guess we'll know when we hear the fully developed Winter (assuming the early version in Linear is all we'll ever hear about that song). I enjoy the chorus of Winter, but the song right now to me comes off as a poor attempt of a UF era U2 re-write. Plus the band would never hear the end of "they're ripping of Colplday" with that string intro.

The more I've listened to Winter the more I think it is a rough draft musically. Lyrically it is pretty far but musically it feels like a sketch of a song. Mercy in my opinion sounds far more along musically. If Mercy didn't have such weak lyrics I think the majority of people would view them as being in the same place in terms of completion.

I suspect that the string intro was put there due to a lack of a good intro at the time. A new intro is biggest difference we'll see on any album version in my opinion.

 

[powerhour24]

Mercy has weak lyrics compared to Winter?

 

[Screwtape2]

Mercy has weak lyrics compared to Winter?

Winter: "No shadow at all on the ancient, holy street where I learned to crawl"

vs.

Mercy: "I know I'm weedkiller honey and you're sugar."

You decide.

 

[Niceman]

Mercy has weak lyrics compared to Winter?

LOL! Yeah, I agree with your disagreement!

 

[Gonna Run 2 U]

NLOTH is one of my favorite song on the album.

Its hands down the coolest song on the album and i guarantee the album would have sold better if that was the first single. In the truck full of people i drove up to the show with not one had the album and when i played NLOTH they said "what is this from its fucking sweet". Fun, different that recent U2 and the whoahohoahoahaoohs are catchy.

Im not for u2 being involved with hip hop but how cool would a remix with nas rapping a "conscious" verse over that be?

 

[Niceman]

Im not for u2 being involved with hip hop but how cool would a remix with nas rapping a "conscious" verse over that be?

It would be very very un-cool.

 

[Gonna Run 2 U]

I'm a big fan of rappers like Nas, he is mainstream but hes still good. I think that would sound awesome if he worked it into the theme of the song NLOTH does have sort of a hip hop groove.

 

[Morgoth321]

Far be it for me to try and second-guess U2's decision-making, but I personally wish they would've released NLOTH (either version) as the lead single. I also wish they'd open the shows with it. It has an immense intro that seems born to open a huge live spectacle such as the 360 tour.

(I also wouldn't listen to Brian Eno for commercial advice. Great producer, yes, but his own body of work generally hasn't troubled the charts. The problem is that, now that he's getting some songwriting credits, he maybe seems to think that he should have a say in the decision-making process. But, no, he doesn't. If U2 want to release a poor man's Vertigo as the lead single, that's their choice!)

 

[An Cat Gav]

Winter: "No shadow at all on the ancient, holy street where I learned to crawl"

vs.

Mercy: "I know I'm weedkiller honey and you're sugar."

You decide.

i've never heard winter, that's a great great lyric.
I love that weedkiler line from mercy though too

 

[nielsgov]

If U2 want to release a poor man's Vertigo as the lead single, that's their choice!

I don't understand why some people say Boots is a poor man's Vertigo. It's the song Vertigo was meant to be. The refrain is way better. It has a great beat. Adam's bass is also great. And I love the bridge. LET ME IN THE SOUND!
I think it's ten times better than Vertigo.

 

[Niceman]

Get on Your Boots is better than Vertigo, but it is a child of Vertigo.

 

[LemonMelon]

Winter: "No shadow at all on the ancient, holy street where I learned to crawl"

vs.

Mercy: "I know I'm weedkiller honey and you're sugar."

You decide.

Nice selective representation there.

There's nothing in Mercy about toast. Winter is a terrible song.

 

[lazarus]

^^^ This. Mercock has some of the best lyrics he had written the whole decade, instead of the obvious, trite cliches found all over the two albums we heard before it. The chorus is weak, but it doesn't ruin the song.

"You wanted violins/and you got Nero" is just fantastic.

 

[powerhour24]

Mercy:
I was drinking some wine... and it turned to blood
What's the use of religion... if you're any good
I know i'm weedkiller honey... and you're sugar
If you're the prosecution... i get away with murder
If you were ice... i'm water
And with your telescope... i can see further
We're binary code... a one and a zero
You wanted violins... and you got Nero
You're gravity... searching for the ground
You're silence... searching for a sound
Your heart is aching... your heart is my home
It's fascinating... i know i'll never be alone
When I was ripping the stitches
Without two cents to rub
I'm digging the ditches
Of someone else's luck
Love is when i lie
Love puts the blue back in my eye
Love will come again
I'll be gone again... again
If you're hunger... baby let me feed it
If your heart is full... baby let me bleed it
And happiness is for... those who don't really need it
You love me... too much
You always loved me... too much
When I was ripping the stitches
Without two cents to rub
I'm in the ditches
Of someone else's luck
Love is when i lie
Love puts the blue back in my eye
Love has come again
I am gone again
Love's got to be with the weak
Only then love gets a chance to speak
Love will come again
I'll be gone again... again
I... i can't escape myself
I hear you talk
Feeling nothing
I fear nothing
Feel....
I can hear so much
Fear nothing
I feel so much
Fear... nothing
Love has come again
I am gone again
Love is the end of history
The enemy of misery
Love has come again
I am gone again
Love is justice, not charity
Love brings with it a clarity
Love has come again
I'm alive again
Alive...
I am alive, baby i'm born again and again
And again, and again and again and again
Again

vs.

Winter:
The yellow sun
Well, it took the hand
Of a country boy
To a city in a far-off land

We made no mark
No shadow at all
On the ancient, holy streets
Where I learned to crawl

The broken and the bruised
The young and the used
The sure and confused
All here

Words will then land on me
Then abandon me
Mangle, untangle me
Leave me on the floor
Rhymes, they sprang in me
Summer sang in me
But summer sings in me no more

Now I'm twenty-five
And trying to stay alive
In a corner of the world
With no clear enemies to fight

It's hot as hell
We're like butter on toast
But there's no army in this world
That can fight a ghost

The broken and the bruised
The young and the used
The sure and confused
All here

Words will then land on me
Then abandon me
Leave me stranded
In guard of the door
Rhymes began in me
Summer sang in me
But summer sings in me no more

Listening to the cries
The strangers
The silence of the foreign grave
Listening to the thunder
The sky is strange
Stretched over everyone
Listening to the tales
The child sings
That goes for days and days
Listening to the calls
Shouts, frustration

At twenty-one
I was born a son
And on that day I knew
I could kill

To protect the ones
We put bullets in guns
Or anything it takes
To take a life until it's still


Both are clearly unfinished, a tad bloated, but I'd say Mercy's more creative, and visceral. Winter was trying to write from the perspective of a dying soldier and taking it too far because obviously Bono doesn't naturally write in that vein, taking the same idea in a much more subtle/personal way for what became White as Snow was far better.

 

[Niceman]

Mercy:
I was drinking some wine... and it turned to blood
What's the use of religion... if you're any good
I know i'm weedkiller honey... and you're sugar
If you're the prosecution... i get away with murder
If you were ice... i'm water
And with your telescope... i can see further
We're binary code... a one and a zero
You wanted violins... and you got Nero
You're gravity... searching for the ground
You're silence... searching for a sound
Your heart is aching... your heart is my home
It's fascinating... i know i'll never be alone
When I was ripping the stitches
Without two cents to rub
I'm digging the ditches
Of someone else's luck
Love is when i lie
Love puts the blue back in my eye
Love will come again
I'll be gone again... again
If you're hunger... baby let me feed it
If your heart is full... baby let me bleed it
And happiness is for... those who don't really need it
You love me... too much
You always loved me... too much
When I was ripping the stitches
Without two cents to rub
I'm in the ditches
Of someone else's luck
Love is when i lie
Love puts the blue back in my eye
Love has come again
I am gone again
Love's got to be with the weak
Only then love gets a chance to speak
Love will come again
I'll be gone again... again
I... i can't escape myself
I hear you talk
Feeling nothing
I fear nothing
Feel....
I can hear so much
Fear nothing
I feel so much
Fear... nothing
Love has come again
I am gone again
Love is the end of history
The enemy of misery
Love has come again
I am gone again
Love is justice, not charity
Love brings with it a clarity
Love has come again
I'm alive again
Alive...
I am alive, baby i'm born again and again
And again, and again and again and again
Again

vs.

Winter:
The yellow sun
Well, it took the hand
Of a country boy
To a city in a far-off land

We made no mark
No shadow at all
On the ancient, holy streets
Where I learned to crawl

The broken and the bruised
The young and the used
The sure and confused
All here

Words will then land on me
Then abandon me
Mangle, untangle me
Leave me on the floor
Rhymes, they sprang in me
Summer sang in me
But summer sings in me no more

Now I'm twenty-five
And trying to stay alive
In a corner of the world
With no clear enemies to fight

It's hot as hell
We're like butter on toast
But there's no army in this world
That can fight a ghost

The broken and the bruised
The young and the used
The sure and confused
All here

Words will then land on me
Then abandon me
Leave me stranded
In guard of the door
Rhymes began in me
Summer sang in me
But summer sings in me no more

Listening to the cries
The strangers
The silence of the foreign grave
Listening to the thunder
The sky is strange
Stretched over everyone
Listening to the tales
The child sings
That goes for days and days
Listening to the calls
Shouts, frustration

At twenty-one
I was born a son
And on that day I knew
I could kill

To protect the ones
We put bullets in guns
Or anything it takes
To take a life until it's still


Both are clearly unfinished, a tad bloated, but I'd say Mercy's more creative, and visceral. Winter was trying to write from the perspective of a dying soldier and taking it too far because obviously Bono doesn't naturally write in that vein, taking the same idea in a much more subtle/personal way for what became White as Snow was far better.

IMHO Mercy's lyrics are breath-taking....shockingly good! I always knew Bono had this in him...

Winter's lyrics are actually pretty good like this too...but that butter on toast line has to go!!!!!!