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Old 03-22-2007, 03:22 PM   #16
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Re: Re: Gore on the Rocks

Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Politics effects everyone and everything, the idea that it should be separate from certain aspects of life or that only certain people are elgible I always found ridiculous.
Doesn't effect objective reality.
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Old 03-22-2007, 04:50 PM   #17
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There was a much better article in the New York Times on this very issue that I think was balanced, in the last year the term denier has come into play and the old oil industry canard seems to be the only answer to any criticism of apocalyptic anthropogenic global warming scenarios from some quarters; both political ad hominem attacks that ignore the facts and evidence (because many of the criticisms are overturned on the basis of the evidence and sometimes the criticism overturns assumptions within the theory, positive outcomes either way).

Heres the article
Quote:
In talks, articles and blog entries that have appeared since his film and accompanying book came out last year, these scientists argue that some of Mr. Gore’s central points are exaggerated and erroneous. They are alarmed, some say, at what they call his alarmism.

“I don’t want to pick on Al Gore,” Don J. Easterbrook, an emeritus professor of geology at Western Washington University, told hundreds of experts at the annual meeting of the Geological Society of America. “But there are a lot of inaccuracies in the statements we are seeing, and we have to temper that with real data.” . . .

Criticisms of Mr. Gore have come not only from conservative groups and prominent skeptics of catastrophic warming, but also from rank-and-file scientists like Dr. Easterbook, who told his peers that he had no political ax to grind. A few see natural variation as more central to global warming than heat-trapping gases. Many appear to occupy a middle ground in the climate debate, seeing human activity as a serious threat but challenging what they call the extremism of both skeptics and zealots.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/13/science/13gore.html?ex=1331611200&en=7867da472294b3c2&ei=5124&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink
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Old 03-22-2007, 05:07 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram


More accurately, it's American conservatives. A look at Europe or Canada will show you that their conservatives have woken up and smelled the coffee, for the most part.


a solid thrashing in 2008 might do much to wake them up, and we're already witnessing some of the Republican superstars -- Giuliani and Schwarzenagger -- publically breaking with the know-nothings of their party, whether the know-nothingism is about global warming or religion.

i, for one, welcome the great Republican crack up. the Giulianis/Schwarzenaggers of the world, if truly freed from the nativist, Christianist shackles of the base of the Republican party, might become a party worth voting for.
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Old 03-22-2007, 05:24 PM   #19
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Giuliani could get the nom

especially with the CA, NJ primaries moved up

and NY and FA may get moved up, too.

The nominations will probably be determined by Feb 6


If this happens, the Social Conservative base could stay away

and let the Dems have the Whitehouse in 08

They believe that would better serve their purposes,
then in 2012 they would get their issues front and center again.
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Old 03-22-2007, 05:25 PM   #20
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But always be careful with Austrians running foreign countries

I think Schwarzenegger did some great things, like buying the two Hummers, one that runs with hydrogen and the other one with biofuel.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/...471152,00.html
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Old 03-22-2007, 05:27 PM   #21
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Arnold will never go national


he may run for Senate in CA sometime

he is not popular with the Republican Party, not even in CA
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Old 03-22-2007, 06:27 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
I think the American conservatives haven't yet caught on that this is another losing issue for them. They've in fact already lost, they just don't know it yet. It's a bit like gay marriage: time will defeat their views because of changing social values and it's basically a question of waiting them out.

In Canada, even our Conservatives are quickfast developing environmental policies ever since the former Conservative PM Mulroney told them point blank they would lose if they did not adjust their views on this issue. The US right is just lagging behind, as is usually the case.

So they can print these ridiculous articles from now until kingdom come and the fact still remains that after decades of work by environmental scientists, they have finally crossed that barrier and the public has largely embraced them or is well on the way. There is no more going back.
Exactly. American conservatives are the laughingstock of the educated free world, in large part because of their ostrich-head-in-the-sand position on global warming.

These are the same people who don't want to teach evolution in schools.

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Old 03-22-2007, 06:31 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by LyricalDrug

Exactly. American conservatives are the laughingstock of the educated free world, in large part because of their ostrich-head-in-the-sand position on global warming.
Not all though, I read something recently about an evangelical Christian conservative who believes in global warming and was criticized for it by some other evangelicals.

Granted that's only one, but surely there are others.
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Old 03-22-2007, 06:37 PM   #24
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^ Oh yeah, there are quite a few of them.
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Old 03-22-2007, 06:38 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
Arnold will never go national


he may run for Senate in CA sometime

he is not popular with the Republican Party, not even in CA
Yes, I think he even isn't allowed to do so because he is no American.
but still, he runs California.
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Old 03-22-2007, 06:39 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland
^ Oh yeah, there are quite a few of them.
Well one FYM stereotype shot to hell
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Old 03-22-2007, 07:13 PM   #27
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Hey by the way, I forgot to tell everyone. I'm gonna see Al Gore at a conference I'm going to next week. What do you want me to ask him?
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Old 03-22-2007, 07:20 PM   #28
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you've got a PM
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Old 03-22-2007, 07:36 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by redhotswami
What do you want me to ask him?
To keep at it. Please.
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Old 03-22-2007, 08:06 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by LyricalDrug

Exactly. American conservatives are the laughingstock of the educated free world
They are, that's true, and have been for some time. The good news is that stereotype, a couple of years ago, via it's dominance of American politics and ideas (publicly, to the outside world) had stretched out to be the stereotype of America or Americans, and it is now subsiding rapidly as it's becoming apparent that opposition for Bush, Iraq etc is now the mainstream in the US. The conservative with a gun in one hand, bible in the other, spewing rubbish about Freedom Fries, is, thankfuly, a rapidly diminishing image. Travel around the world a few years ago and everyone thought the US had gone flat out crazy simply because the noise of a few was shouting down the many. Switch on Fox News a few years ago and you were honestly left sitting there thinking "We're all fucked" because you felt that millions upon millions upon millions believed the hype, now you just have to laugh at those still hanging on. The head-up-the-arse attitude towards foreign affairs was scary, but it's all but gone. The head-in-the-sand towards global warming, among other things (particularly 'social' issues), just shows the stupidity of certain beliefs.
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