Who invented the double entrendre for praying and oral sex: Madonna or Bono?

[cardosino]

I figure I have about the same chance to win the lottery whether I buy a ticket or not... Ah, well.


And back to the subject (well, kind of )... Don't most guys pray for oral sex?

I know some who pay.....

No, we pray for someone (of the opposite sex) who's really good at it........

 

[zoo99]

"or leave a bad taste in your mouth"
"surrounding me, going down on me"
"to watch you go down...my love"
"better learn how to kneel"
"and you can swallow or you can spit"

I guess everyone can decide for themselves, on another note I rediscovered an intresting lyric from Ultraviolet that maybe has a new meaning after reading and listening to Bono talk about STYCMIOYO regarding his father and the Opera music he used to play.

When I was all messed up
And I heard opera in my head
Your love was a light bulb
Hanging over my bed

 

[LyricalDrug]

I guess everyone can decide for themselves, on another note I rediscovered an intresting lyric from Ultraviolet that maybe has a new meaning after reading and listening to Bono talk about STYCMIOYO regarding his father and the Opera music he used to play.

When I was all messed up
And I heard opera in my head
Your love was a light bulb
Hanging over my bed

Wow, that is cool. So, if Bono's dad always played opera around the house, I interpret the first two lines to refer to Bono's teenage years at home--does that make sense? Then, I suppose that means "your love" refers to Ali, since they've known each other since they were about 13, I think.

 

[U2girl]

"or leave a bad taste in your mouth"
"surrounding me, going down on me"
"to watch you go down...my love"
"better learn how to kneel"
"and you can swallow or you can spit"

I guess everyone can decide for themselves, on another note I rediscovered an intresting lyric from Ultraviolet that maybe has a new meaning after reading and listening to Bono talk about STYCMIOYO regarding his father and the Opera music he used to play.

When I was all messed up
And I heard opera in my head
Your love was a light bulb
Hanging over my bed

While I think AB is the only U2 album where one *could* see sexual messages if one wanted, I never did.

"leave a bad taste in your mouth" - goes nice with the father/son interpretation. You know...did I let you down?
"surrounding me, going down on me" - the sorrows after the betrayal from the prevoius lines.
"to watch you go down...my love" - a sinister take on romantic relationship, only the woman is the "bad guy" in the song and he's only around to watch her fall apart.
"kiss the sky / learn how to kneel" - could be about praying, though I see it as a "you can't appreciate the good/highs in life without also experiencing the bad/lows"
"swallow or spit" - okay, possible. I see it as "you can either stand up and face to the problem or you can roll over and let it get you down"

I think he's referring to Ali in those Ultraviolet lines.

 

[NotAnEasyThing]

At any rate, I was only trying to shed light on the subject at hand. Hard to believe I even took your bait and got so defensive! Silly me! I know better next time.

Good night!

This is where it all started:

QUOTE]Originally posted by AtomicLemon
Actually I was informed (by a close source) that OOTS started out being written about Edge's daughter (Bono's goddaughter), but it morphed into something a bit more intimate. Did you see an article where he was quoted saying it was indeed about HIS daughter and that "you steal right under my door" is about her leaving home, etc... Or is that just your interpretation? Because if you did in fact read that quote, I'd love to see it.[/QUOTE]

Just a few thoughts about this U2Kitten v AtomicLemon thing;

1) Why do people get so personal in their debates on these threads? I mean lets get passionate about what we believe - but please lets not attack each other- besides being infantile it is just plain pointless- no one really "wins"

2)I do find it hard to swallow (oohhh thats an interesting choice of words) that Bono is talking about Oral Sex in OOTS. I also find it hard to believe that someone who is such a U2 fan and with such an inside view of the music business (like AtomicLemon) would not be aware of the numerous references to OOTS being about Bono/Edge's daughters.

3) Sex is not dirty- God invented it! But we sometimes make beautiful things crap by the way we handle them. I do think of Bono as someone with a deep Christian faith, but the very essence of Christian faith is Grace (as Bono has made very clear). Grace means we who are not perfect can find our way back to God. I think that Bono is a fallable human like the rest of us, but someone who speaks with integrity and an earnest desire to communicate stuff that is real/worthwhile/thought-provoking. So I think I would be right to assume that what U2Kitten was getting at is that reducing a song like OOTS down to a cheap song about oral sex just demeans the kind of powerful personal meaning that Bono intended.

4)Of course there are U2 songs that deal with the subject of sexuality- it's a big part of life, and they are a band that deals with all of the big issues of life- that's one of the things I love about their music. Just OOTS is not about sex (of any description).

5)Does anyone else feel that all this "the meaning it up to you" business is a bit rich? Clearly when someone writes a song they have a meaning in mind, even if it is multi-threaded. I don't deny that we all have songs connect with us in different ways and come to have new/different meanings, but seriously..... I find it so much more fulfilling when I uncover what Bono intended a song to convey than if I just sing along wondering what the heck it's all about.

 

[Miggy D]

In my dreams
I was drowning sorrows
But my sorrows they learned to swim
Surrounding me
--Going down on me
Spilling over the brim--

Bono has often mixed the sexual with the spiritual. Let's also keep in mind that from a Christian perspective, these two are very closely interlinked. Until it was hijacked by the extreme right, sexuality and Christianity had a very cozy relationship, as sex was (and still is) considered the closest, most spiritual act two people could ever do together. If you are also to go by the traditional Christian interpretation, since man + woman is the ultimate spiritual conclusion in God's eyes, sex is the ultimate spiritual act. It is the 'closest' one can get to God while still remaining on earth. If you think about it, great sex is pretty 'divine.'

Anyway - it's a little innocent-minded to think that Bono's lyrics only mean one thing, and never the dirty one. The man's 44 years old, not 15, and there is sex in his lyrics.

I mean 'stuck together with God's glue'...what on earth do you think 'God's glue' is?

-Miggy D

P.S. - I do think that oral sex link to OOTS is bollocks, though. It isn't about that. But one could make a case for Mysterious Ways, though. A song CAN mean two things.

Now...if someone were to argue that 'Sunday Bloody Sunday' was about the mestrual cycle...THAT would be an interesting thread.

 

[kiwilad]

Sunday Bloody Sunday = menstrual cycle ha ha ha that's very good. Ali wrote that lyric for Bono perhaps, a collaboration?

This thread is great, although I hope noone takes it too personally! I tend to agree with the 'dirty' people on this one, that U2 often allude to sex but do so discretely. Although I also see U2 kitten p.o.v.

Perhaps it's unrealistic to think a guy who has been in the sex drugs and rock and roll scene for 25 years, with all sorts of women making all sorts of offers, is incapable of writing about these things. I'm not saying he's guilty of any debaucherous adventures, (or is the biography on the way?) but really, is thinly vailing oral sex references that far above the guy? To me it only serves to make him appear real, not untouchable. Shit I'm preaching ... sorry, just my 2 cents ....

 

[U2girl]

As far as OOTS is concerned...I don't think so. Bono made it clear several times it's about Edge's daugher - he is her godfather.
The song is IMO, a clear parental-loving "letter" to a child.

Also, with U2's history, I'd believe their use of the word "kneel" is connected to praying/faith over Madonna's history and her lyrics anytime.

 

[U2girl]

In my dreams
I was drowning sorrows
But my sorrows they learned to swim
Surrounding me
--Going down on me
Spilling over the brim--


Anyway - it's a little innocent-minded to think that Bono's lyrics only mean one thing, and never the dirty one. The man's 44 years old, not 15, and there is sex in his lyrics.

I mean 'stuck together with God's glue'...what on earth do you think 'God's glue' is?

Do you not think "drowning my sorrows" and the rest of that part could refer to depression, drinking ... what makes you so in the know about Bono's lyrics?

God's glue - means that the couple was joined by Church/God. Catholic Church makes a point of not agreeing with divorce and insisting couples should stay together forever once they're married.

 

[Miggy D]

Do you not think "drowning my sorrows" and the rest of that part could refer to depression, drinking ... what makes you so in the know about Bono's lyrics?

God's glue - means that the couple was joined by Church/God. Catholic Church makes a point of not agreeing with divorce and insisting couples should stay together forever once they're married.

To 'go down' on someone is pretty clear. I have never heard the phrase 'going down' on someone/something to mean anything BUT oral sex. I think Bono is being vaguely sexual here to keep up the facade/double interpretation that this song can be about a lover or Jesus. (It can be interpreted a man singing to his lover, or as Judas singing to Jesus...why does it have to be one or the other?)

I'm not 'in the know', I'm just giving my opinion. People can 'purify' Bono's lyrics until the cows come home, for all I care. I'm not of the mindset that all of Bono's lyrics are sexual. I'd say most of them aren't. But I don't agree with the argument of 'all of Bono's lyrics are pure, and to think otherwise is sick, sick, sick!' I mean, this IS the guy who invented The Fly and Macphisto, after all. I think he's capable of writing about sex. I mean during Zoo TV the guy would ram a camera into his crotch, for crying out loud!

-Miggy D

 

[U2girl]

"going down" is only a small portion of that song. It does not make the rest of it sexual. Again, it is "my sorrows" that are going down on him. I do not think this could refer to a person.

Who said all of Bono's lyrics are pure?
YOU were the one that said it was naive to not find sexual meaning in his lyrics - which was patronising and generalizing fans. Just because he says "kneel" does not mean he means sex.

 

[Miggy D]

"going down" is only a small portion of that song. It does not make the rest of it sexual. Again, it is "my sorrows" that are going down on him. I do not think this could refer to a person.

Who said all of Bono's lyrics are pure?
YOU were the one that said it was naive to not find sexual meaning in his lyrics - which was patronising and generalizing fans. Just because he says "kneel" does not mean he means sex.

Actually, you're putting words in my mouth. I believe I said, "Anyway - it's a little innocent-minded to think that Bono's lyrics only mean one thing, and never the dirty one."

I never once said it was naive to not find sexual meanings in his lyrics. I never said all of his lyrics are sexual. I never even said MOST of his lyrics could be interpreted that way. I do believe that some of his songs have been written so that they may be interpreted more than one way, and that Bono is conscious of this as he writes some of his songs.

A person is not naive, nor stupid, if they never hear sexual meanings when listening to Bono's lyrics - if anything, this simply speaks to the purity of the listener's mind, and that's not something to be mocked. What I AM saying is, if another fan gives a strong case for a more sexual interpretation of a lyric, it is THEN 'innocent-minded' to think that there is absolutely no other interpretation of a Bono lyric than the most pure, non-sexual one.

Hopefully this clears things up.

-Miggy D

 

[Wild Angel]

As far as OOTS is concerned...I don't think so. Bono made it clear several times it's about Edge's daugher - he is her godfather.
The song is IMO, a clear parental-loving "letter" to a child.

Also, with U2's history, I'd believe their use of the word "kneel" is connected to praying/faith over Madonna's history and her lyrics anytime.

Absolutely.

I don't want to get graphic or out of line, but please tell me how a man would perform oral sex on a woman 'kneeling?' A woman giving a man a blow job may get down on her knees and Madonna may have meant that. Somebody mentioned 69, and that's more like it, it happens in the bed, or laying down. I can't image how awkward it would be for a man to try to tongue a standing woman from his knees on the ground. A dog maybe but not a human. That's another reason I don't think that's what he means by kneeling in any song. That's not how it works

 

[U2Kitten]

Thanks NotAnEasyThing, good points! I also agree with U2girl and Wildangel.

 

[V Nura]

there was actually an interview in rolling stone around 2001-ish where he talksa bout his dad. And how humility is important, the idea of the needles eye and needed to "stoop" to enter heavan. Kneeling..can be interpreted as humility..or as sex..take your pick.

Bono does mix the sexual and the spiritual, but I dont think every instance of the word kneel is the best justification for this.

if someone can find that interview here and paste it it might provide a lot of insight.

 

[ZeroDude]

Bono clearly is as much a sexual person as a spiritual therefore reflected in his lyrics

 

[U2Kitten]

Here is a thread discussing the daughter connection, 'here comes your Dad' 'this one is for Holly'

http://forum.interference.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1937284#post1937284

Bono and Edge would NOT have a fucking oral sex reference in a sweet song dedicated to a daughter/goddaughter. End of story.

 

[Souly]

Bono clearly is as much a sexual person as a spiritual therefore reflected in his lyrics

I agree.

 

[U2Kitten]

I'm not saying he never mentions sex, only that this song is not about sex, and that kneeling means praying. That's all!!! I'm not a prude and I don't think he's perfect! OF COURSE HE MENTIONS SEX OF COURSE HE'S SEXUAL!! But this song is not about oral sex! Okay???!!!!

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

mick jagger

 

[Catman]

This thread is interesting....now somebody tell me what Bono said to Natalie Imbruglia I'm only curious 'cause I know she is a big fan of U2 and talks highly of Bono. Plus, didn't she sing backup vocals during "Walk On" at the 9/11 benefit concert?? I can't imagine Bono saying anything that might offend her

 

[joyfulgirl]

Are we talking about the same Bono that gave a girl in the audience a lap dance on SNL? Yeah, he would NEVER allude to anything sexual in his music.



from Mother Jones Magazine, 1989:

MJ: What do you think of Prince's brand of salacious Christianity, which says that brilliant sex lights the way to paradise?

Bono: I just believe that Prince believes the same thing I do: that God is sex as well as love.

MJ: So you feel, when you listen to a Prince album, that you guys are singing the same gospel?

Bono: I feel very close to Prince, closer than you might think.

MJ: Closer than I would think, in that he's considered sex-crazed, while critics regularly describe U2 as nearly sexless.

Bono: I'm deeply insulted to hear you say that, and shocked, and mesmerized. I don't think they could have been to too many U2 shows. You'd have to ask our audience. This may be one of those cliches from the critical community who generally themselves are completely sexless. You can't fuck people with your head, or maybe you can....

MJ: Now, come on. You honestly think that the kind of really erotic sounds that you hear in "Sexual Healing" or "Little Red Corvette," that there are U2 songs that have that kind of carnal energy?

Bono: No. Yes, I think there is a sexuality to U2. I don't think it's dressed up in leather, or high-heel boots, or that type of thing.

I don't think it's the sort of peek-a-boo-type sexuality. So, some people, who have to have a neon sign that says sex before they see sex, may not see it in our music. But sex is a much subtler thing than that. Today you'll find the exact same girl in the Coca-Cola ads and the rock videos. That's not rebellious anymore. It sells products. And it is a product. That kind of overt or camped-up sexuality is no longer rebellious in the way that it was in the '50s and '60s, when people weren't owning up that they even had a sex life. People needed that shoved in their face and rock 'n' roll was a great medium to do it. But that doesn't apply now...

See, most things that a lot of people find sexy, I find incredibly funny! I don't find the things I see out on the Strip, say, latex trousers, turn me on. They just don't.

 

[ultrraviolette]

Yeah, it's quite frequent in 17th and 18th century poetry, especially with metaphysical poets like John Donne.

Exactly, plus the double entendre of the word "die" Donne again comes to mind first

 

[u2granny]

I figure I have about the same chance to win the lottery whether I buy a ticket or not... Ah, well.


And back to the subject (well, kind of )... Don't most guys pray for oral sex?

No. I can't believe that in 2004 people still get this wound up about oral sex.

For some reason I read that as "pay".

 

[ultrraviolette]

Cool! Please post the information; I'd be interested in checking it out.

Check out John Donne, you can also look up other metaphysical poets...Donne happens to be my favorite

John Donne

 

[ultrraviolette]

But this song is not about oral sex! Okay???!!!!

That's fine to think what you want, but everyone else is entitles to their opinion. I'm not saying I agree with the sex thing OotS, but not everyone has to agree

 

[U2Kitten]

That's fine to think what you want, but everyone else is entitles to their opinion. I'm not saying I agree with the sex thing OotS, but not everyone has to agree

It isn't an opinion when the band members have already said it's about the daughter, and even mentions the daughter in the song.

There is another debate on another very different topic on another message board I'm on, people keep whining the old worn out 'everyone is entitled to their opinion' over shit that can be PROVEN- I say it ceases to be an opinion when there is proof that one opinion is incorrect, such as, the sun does not revolve around the earth.

And joyfulgirl, for the 10th time, I never said he NEVER mentioned sex, just that this one song was not about it. That's all.

 

[joyfulgirl]

And joyfulgirl, for the 10th time, I never said he NEVER mentioned sex, just that this one song was not about it. That's all.

I don't know and don't care what OOTS is about, but Mysterious Ways will always be about sex and God to me.

 

[ZeroDude]

So we've cleared this all up now?

 

[financeguy]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the S&M reference on With or Without You - "My hands are tied, my body is bruised."