inmyplace13 said:
Let's all listen to 'Sunken Treasure'
That is a damned fine idea. Damned fine.
Laz:
I wasn't trying to give "Golden" a pity pass, as you said. Even so, looking back on my rushed remarks, I guess it's fair for you or anybody else to have assumed so. What I'm saying is that I've heard the song and that I like it well enough (I've now listened to it several times, just to make sure), but that I do think that Wilco songs (many of them) are far better. Is "I am Trying to Break Your Heart" less lyrically concise and timeless than "Golden"? Well, I don't think that lyrical conciseness is necessarily a good or a bad thing--you invoke Dylan, whose best verse (for me, at least) is rambling and free-associative and ostensibly anti-concise. "Visions of Johanna" would be my favorite example of this.
Timelessness, of course, is not only inquantifiable, but it is also illusory. Not a single thing can be said to be timeless, since the idea is so abstract and immeasurable as to be a ficiton. None of us, at any rate, will ever know if either band is or will be timeless. I'm willing to bet, though, that neither band nor song will be. In 250 years, The Beatles will no longer be "timeless" since they never really were nor could they ever be. C'est la vie.
So, musically and lyrically, I'm not sure I can think of Wilco songs which work in the same (effective, mind you) way that "Golden" does. It's like comparing apples (Wilco) to oranges (MMJ)--we can't judge one singularly for being like or unlike the other, necessarily, but we can definitely prefer one over the other. I prefer Wilco (and apples), and while the songs may not be as lyrically or musically succint, I think that Wilco songs such as "Candyfloss", "Reservations", "I am Trying to Break Your Heart", "Ashes of American Flags", "Misunderstood", "She's a Jar", "Sunken Treasure", and even the listenable portion of "Less Than You Think" are more beautiful and powerful than is "Golden".
And, yeah--I was trying to be a dick by citing those shady-as-poo MMJ lyrics. 'Twas all meant in good fun. Bottom line, I took a few lines from one song to sum up my hatred of the band just as you took a scant two lines from a Wilco song to "prove" that Tweedy isn't Dylan. Of course he isn't, though. He's Jeff Tweedy, for fuck's sake!
I guess I don't hear a lot of effort to become (like) Dylan, whereas I rightly or wrongly DO see Coyne Jr. trying. Am I right? I dunno. All I know is that I think I am and that that's good enough for me. It comes across as cloying and laughably shallow, when I listen(ed) to the band. Likewise, it's fine for anybody else to like that jazz if he or she wants to. I think you made good and succint points of your own as to why you prefer MMJ, and that's cool with me. All that matters is that you know why you prefer it, and you do. You're responsible with your opinion, so I'm down. Even though I simply cannot bring myself to agree. At all.
Sorry for the longness. This is why I was brief and potentially vague. Most people don't wanna read this stuff, and they think (once I've written it) that I'm an asshole for thinking about things in more detail than they do, you know? Either way, thanks for asking, because it is nice to spit my speak, every now and again.
And for the record, I also think I find your anti-Tweedyism (at least, I think that's what it is...I could be wrong) falls on sort-of-deaf ears (pun intended) because I don't think that Tweedy was the most important component of the Wilco I loved unconditionally (ie,
Being There to
Yankee Hotel Foxtrot)--it was Jay Bennett. I am as indifferent towards
A.M. as hateful as I am towards (most of) MMJ's catalogue. And I think that
A Ghost is Born is patchy, unfocused, and less than the sum total of its oftentimes brilliant parts. I don't love Tweedy. I love Wilco and Bennett.
And, yeah--I ain't got nothin' 'gainst Mr. O'Rourke, neither.