Shuttlecock XIX - send $40 now for your opportunity to not get a presale code

[Dalton]

Why was Laz banned?

 

[cobl04]

I mean, that's kinda sad. You'd be pretty much unable to appreciate the personal work about anyone beyond starving artists with that kind of thought process.

So love is only interesting if you're poor and/or not white? Enlightening stuff.

Jesus christ U2 time really makes people here extra-sensitive. How could I be a music fan if I didn't like personal lyricism? How can you take my post so seriously?

I think the point is that "it's personal" isn't an excuse for bad writing.

100%.

I keep coming back to this, but look at Nick Cave. He’s three years older than Bono. His last two albums have been, in my opinion, the best of his career (aware I’d be in the minority on that one, but leaving that aside they are very highly regarded by fans and critics alike). Skeleton Tree is extremely personal. Excoriating, in fact. Take-your-breath-away personal. And it’s a fucking tremendous record. The writing is stunning. He’s white and rich too. But he’s not writing cliches and platitudes and surface-level stuff and then banging on about it being an act of defiance.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Well you didn't end it in a winky face so it's your fault I took it literally

 

[LemonMelon]

Laz is a drama queen. He was before he got banned and he will be long after. The guy thrives on hyperbole and hysteria and we've all clowned him for it at some point. I'm sure he'll be back because forums are among the easiest ways to mainline drama.

And yes, well-to-do white people can write good lyrics about love and self. Besides Skeleton Tree, the last couple years have also given us A Crow Looked At Me and Teens of Denial, albums about (the loss of) love and the development of self, respectively, that are absolutely brilliant. There are few attempts made at universality and that's totally OK.

Bono hasn't succeeded at that in a long, long time though. Probably Pop. The character writing he did on NLOTH was largely more interesting to me than the drab reflections on the past that filled SOI and certainly the awful stuff released ahead of SOE. I've given SOI a lot of flack for being bland and conservative, but at least it was competent U2 music. American Soul and The Best Thing, I don't know, and Bono is a big reason for those songs being such enormous whiffs.

 

[Vlad n U 2]

I reckon it's a pretty good album overall and much better than I was expecting, there are around half a dozen great songs on the record that I'll keep on coming back to and that's enough for me, really.

It makes for a pretty respectable late career effort for the most part, and I'd be perfectly fine if they decided to hang it up after this.

 

[LemonMelon]

Why was Laz banned?

He called Redhill a pedophile, in a joking way. It was a carryover from a kind of lame joke he tried a few days before.

 

[DaveC]

I reckon it's a pretty good album overall and much better than I was expecting, there are around half a dozen great songs on the record that I'll keep on coming back to and that's enough for me, really.

It makes for a pretty respectable late career effort for the most part, and I'd be perfectly fine if they decided to hang it up after this.

this is exactly how i feel after a handful of listens. i think half the album or so is pretty great, and that's a lot more than i expected out of the album. feels like this one will probably have more staying power with me than their last few. it's a nice surprise.

 

[iron yuppie]

\Besides Skeleton Tree, the last couple years have also given us A Crow Looked At Me and Teens of Denial, albums about (the loss of) love and the development of self, respectively, that are absolutely brilliant.

Carrie & Lowell. The best of them all.

 

[LemonMelon]

Carrie & Lowell. The best of them all.

And MY WOMAN by Angel Olsen, Susanne Sundfor's Ten Love Songs, Vulnicura, etc.

Bono doesn't have to struggle writing personal love songs because he's rich and white. He just does.

 

[iron yuppie]

You can probably put Lemonade, Blonde, and maybe even DAMN in there as well. There's been a lot of great somber, reflective albums lately.

 

[cobl04]

I can't believe I am actually having to write this, but no, being white does not preclude you from writing good personal lyrics

I am referring to his quotes in this interview: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/06/arts/music/u2-songs-of-experience-interview.html

I am saying that Ax is right about Bono’s lyricism of late, and the focus on these personal lyrics that Bono thinks are revelatory but they aren’t, because it’s a rich white man who’s done it all writing “you’re the best thing about me” and thinking it’s some amazing thing to do.

 

[gvox]

I wish the people that were writing extensively on this music would actually listen to the damn thing.

Not a knock on anyone in particular but I really do think that there's something for everyone on this album. Axver is out his damn mind. ( )

I hate that they strung together tracks 6-8. By the time I get to 8 it's like oh yay another cutesy-poo guitar chord intro, and I mean 8 kinda blows anyways so...

But even 6 and 7 .....I like them a lot better separated far apart from each other.

Call it the West Coast Trinity, if you want...but it's too much in a row for me.

 

[corianderstem]

I'm not interested in comparing Bono to other songwriters - for late-period U2, these are (mostly) very good Bono lyrics.

 

[HeartlandGirl]

The problem? Bono the storyteller is, for the most part, not nearly as good as Bono the poet.

I think this is so insightful and right on the money.

There are bands I listen to for the storytelling lyrics (Kelly Jones from Stereophonics comes to mind), and other artists who excel at the poetic approach (like Tori Amos). I agree that Bono is better when he leaves things left unsaid and allows the listener to fill in the spaces.

 

[BVS]

And MY WOMAN by Angel Olsen, Susanne Sundfor's Ten Love Songs, Vulnicura, etc.

Bono doesn't have to struggle writing personal love songs because he's rich and white. He just does.

No, I think most of Bono’s struggling with lyric writing is his self imposed desire to write from joy’s perspective. I respect his want to do so, but it leads itself to platitudes and a disconnect from most of the audience. Not many, if any great artists write from this perspective successfully.

The times he has allowed himself to write outside that bubble on the last two albums we’ve actually gotten some great moments.

Ax’s perspective was extremely over the top, but I think most would agree with certain nuggets. His rant into the personal was bizarre, how many fans ask their artists to reveal less of themselves? But I get the core of his point.

I like Bono’s idea of ‘defiant joy’, but it’s not easy to pull off.

 

[Vlad n U 2]

I think this is so insightful and right on the money.

There are bands I listen to for the storytelling lyrics (Kelly Jones from Stereophonics comes to mind), and other artists who excel at the poetic approach (like Tori Amos). I agree that Bono is better when he leaves things left unsaid and allows the listener to fill in the spaces.

On this topic, I really don't understand how Kelly Jones' lyrics have deteriorated so much since Word Gets Around - he really had something great going there.

 

[corianderstem]

Interesting thought about poet vs storyteller. I can get behind that.

 

[BVS]

On this topic, I really don't understand how Kelly Jones' lyrics have deteriorated so much since Word Gets Around - he really had something great going there.

I agree, but I wouldn’t agree it happened that early.

But honestly everything after Sex Language etc only has one or two repeatable songs.

 

[HeartlandGirl]

^this

Word Gets Around is storytelling at its best and most blatant. Their later albums still have that, but I agree it has slipped, especially since LSVO.

I mean, how brilliant is the story Jones tells in I Stopped to Fill My Car Up?

 

[Axver]

First, youarenotimmune's post is fantastic and insightful; I agree with every word.

I can understand the dislike for cliches, but disliking lyrics because they are too personal is utterly baffling to me.

But hey, each their own and all that crap.

Eh, I guess I phrased that badly. I prefer abstract lyricism much of the time but love a lot of really intensely personal things (I wouldn't be a fan of so many emo bands if I didn't). But Bono's lyrics of late are self-centred, self-absorbed reflections of a disconnected rich guy who seems to have nothing to offer except pretense that singing about himself is some deep joyful politics of celebration or resistance.

The best personal lyrics are where an artist is purging an emotion, or seeking a connection with listeners who might feel the same way. Bono's are... not that, to put it mildly. Once they were, now they strive to be profound and become banal.

Personal's great, but I'm not terribly interested in hearing a rich white man writing a love song about his wife and proclaiming it to be some inspiring piece of activism.

Precisely. We will tell you if it's inspiring, mate.

Oh my. Ax. Never change. Love ya bro but it’s pretty obvious that you and current U2 are not on the same page and that your thought are more of a reflection of that than the quality of the album. Not saying your opinion doesn’t matter but when I read your posts, my response was “of course...”

Mate, I even said I don't dislike the album! The first paragraph of my previous post was meant to cut off this sort of dismissal.

I think the point is that "it's personal" isn't an excuse for bad writing.

This too. I'm really struggling to see cori's perspective that this is some of his best writing in ages. Almost every lyric that has stood out to me is dreadful.

So for those of you who have heard it, is it as musically distinctive as people in EYKIW are claiming? Particularly in the stretch with Summer of Love?

Hahaha no. You won't hear anything you haven't heard before. Maybe a couple of things surprising for U2, but that's it.

No, I think most of Bono’s struggling with lyric writing is his self imposed desire to write from joy’s perspective. I respect his want to do so, but it leads itself to platitudes and a disconnect from most of the audience. Not many, if any great artists write from this perspective successfully.

The times he has allowed himself to write outside that bubble on the last two albums we’ve actually gotten some great moments.

Ax’s perspective was extremely over the top, but I think most would agree with certain nuggets. His rant into the personal was bizarre, how many fans ask their artists to reveal less of themselves? But I get the core of his point.

I like Bono’s idea of ‘defiant joy’, but it’s not easy to pull off.

You've mis-read me then, but I agree with most of the rest of your post (defiant joy can fuck off). It's hardly over the top to say that Bono is now a bad lyricist, and that this is all the more depressing in light of how good he was for so long.

 

[corianderstem]

So you don't find (some) of this album a lyrical improvement? I mean, I'm not claiming it's genius, but ... nothing?

 

[BoMac]

Initial thoughts are it's a respectable effort for a 40-year-old band, and I quite like some of the songs. American Soul makes me want to throw myself in the middle of traffic. And Landlady sounds unnecessary to me.

But Little Things is so fucking good and is this album's Troubles for me. The only real keeper.

 

[BVS]

You've mis-read me then, but I agree with most of the rest of your post (defiant joy can fuck off). It's hardly over the top to say that Bono is now a bad lyricist, and that this is all the more depressing in light of how good he was for so long.

I find it to be over the top based on how even the biggest naysayers are speaking of his lyrics and not against.

But for the most part I found it over the top because many are finding his vulnerability to be refreshing. Plus that side rant about SOI being all about him, when ReachMe, SLABT, RBW, Troubles were very clearly about the band as a whole.

 

[Axver]

So you don't find (some) of this album a lyrical improvement? I mean, I'm not claiming it's genius, but ... nothing?

I'd say that this is lyrically the worst album since HTDAAB actually. There have been awful clunkers since, but also some real high points on NLOTH and SOI that are not equalled here. The song titles did indeed prove emblematic of the lyricism for the most part.

I find it to be over the top based on how even the biggest naysayers are speaking of his lyrics and not against.

But for the most part I found it over the top because many are finding his vulnerability to be refreshing. Plus that side rant about SOI being all about him, when ReachMe, SLABT, RBW, Troubles were very clearly about the band as a whole.

I would not call this vulnerability. Maybe on Little Things. But a whole lot of this album hides timidly behind cliches.

 

[corianderstem]

I'd say that this is lyrically the worst album since HTDAAB actually.

HARUMPH I SAY.

True, there have been highlights on all post 2000 albums. And I just had a moment where I realized there was only 1 album between Bomb and SOI. Jesus, Bomb feels like centuries ago.

Maybe these seem better to me because I noticed them immediately, for once.

 

[gvox]

Quick:

What’s the worst song on each of these albums?

Zooropa
Pop
All That You Can’t
How to Dismantle
No Line
Innocence

 

[cobl04]

Dirty Day, Staring at the Sun, Peace on Earth, Original of the Species, Magnificent, The Miracle

 

[DaveC]

HARUMPH I SAY.

True, there have been highlights on all post 2000 albums. And I just had a moment where I realized there was only 1 album between Bomb and SOI. Jesus, Bomb feels like centuries ago.

Maybe these seem better to me because I noticed them immediately, for once.

you're not crazy. i usually agree with axver but he's got it completely backwards on this (tracks 3-5 notwithstanding).

 

[corianderstem]

Okay, phew.

 

[corianderstem]

Quick:

What’s the worst song on each of these albums?

Zooropa
Pop
All That You Can’t
How to Dismantle
No Line
Innocence

Some Days Are Better Than Others
If God Will Send His Angels
Peace On Earth
A Man and a Woman
Stand Up Comedy
Miracle